your take on pruning with spurs on

Therrin · 6th January 2008, 08:12 PM

Arborjockey,

We're talking about it because alot of people go both ways, and for different reasons. Companies doing line clearances and such won't pay someone to prune without gaffs, apparently. Some customers refuse to pay what it would cost to properly prune a tree which needs it badly, and some species are more tolerant to it.

Beyond that, it's a good thread for helping lurkers out there who prune with gaffs but won't speak up on here, to see what they're doing wrong; as well as helping to show people different approaches that can be taken to do things the right way

I'm glad you operate using proper techniques and its cool that you've NEVER gaff'd a tree while pruning, even when you were just starting out as a completely newb climber. That's pretty cool since some of us didn't know

about the right way to do things when we were starting. I wish *I* could say that I've never made mistakes like that while on my learning curve.

newguy18 · 6th January 2008, 09:26 PM

Sadly I've gaffed trees but that was before I knew better.Now I gaff palms.

dannyboysfc · 6th January 2008, 09:45 PM

I've been watching this thread for a while, while debating this question in my own mind and was gonna give my oppinion but changed my mind

Ekka · 7th January 2008, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quercus

I can't believe what I'm reading here and I can't believe some of you are pruning with spurs...Even palms...
Palms are also trees in my humble opinion.

<snip>

-Ekka, I'm surprised to hear that you, the man who has made a nice video of a perfectly good and safe trunk walk, climb with gaffs to prune on certain trees. Even palms are to be respected in every way possible.

Ah ha!

I got some footage.

Now this is called a Livistonea palm. Unlike the cocos it doesn't form or have a real head. Just tapers of with these thorny leaves very much like a Washingtonia however the washingtonia fronds are a little tougher.

I was forunate that most of the beard blew away on this one, but if you see the smaller one nearby that has it's beard.

This is a removal however you'll see from the climbers perspective (note the camera is onto of helmet though) what you encounter, things like dont cut above should ht, barbs on easily bent fronds for high lines etc

It's heavily edited as I wouldn't want to reveal all my secrets.

This video is only 1.30 min long and 7.75mb WMV

www.treeworld.info/video/livistonea.wmv

newguy18 · 7th January 2008, 05:47 AM

the video doesn't work.

Ekka · 7th January 2008, 12:00 PM

Crikey, stuffed up, does work now though.

newguy18 · 7th January 2008, 02:04 PM

yeah it works.I'm with you I don't trust those fronds to hold me and i'm only 225 with gear.

dannyboysfc · 7th January 2008, 06:59 PM

I swear that looks just like a Washingtonia from what I could see in the video.

Ekka · 7th January 2008, 11:59 PM

Nah mate, that's an Ozzi Livistona palm, I spelled it a little wrong.

Here's a link to google pics.

livistona palm - Google Image Search

There's some subtle differences.

1/ They dont hold that beard as bad.

2/ Where the frond meets the tree (petiole) you dont get that criss/cross pattern ... they come out square and flat.

3/ The tips of the fronds are droopy.

4/ The barbs are smaller and black and detach easily ... so when you get stabbed they break off in you!

They're better looking and better to work on, those Washy's are BAD ASS! Did you notice the nice clean trunk I went up, no fur and junk like a washy.

newguy18 · 8th January 2008, 05:00 AM

Thats the first time I ever saw you wearing gloves.heres a complete list of trees in my area.
Native Trees for North Florida
i'll try and find one with pics of each tree or at least foliage.

dannyboysfc · 12th January 2008, 01:33 AM

So back to the topic of pruning with spurs on. How could I efficiently climb a 50-60 foot tall palm without spikes?

Along the same lines, I was wondering what method climbers use to clean a palm that has a full beard. Acording to OSHA or ANSI(dont remember where I read it) on a palm that has more than 3 years of dead fronds you are required to start trimming from the top of the tree and are required to use a false crotch device.

I threw in the photo just because

arborjockey · 12th January 2008, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

Arborjockey,

We're talking about it because alot of people go both ways, and for different reasons. Companies doing line clearances and such won't pay someone to prune without gaffs, apparently. Some customers refuse to pay what it would cost to properly prune a tree which needs it badly, and some species are more tolerant to it.

Beyond that, it's a good thread for helping lurkers out there who prune with gaffs but won't speak up on here, to see what they're doing wrong; as well as helping to show people different approaches that can be taken to do things the right way

I'm glad you operate using proper techniques and its cool that you've NEVER gaff'd a tree while pruning, even when you were just starting out as a completely newb climber. That's pretty cool since some of us didn't know

about the right way to do things when we were starting. I wish *I* could say that I've never made mistakes like that while on my learning curve.

Great response and I agree that their are alot of people that are still coming around the learnig curve. Most climbers gaff trees for speed and it takes a while to " learn the ropes" but ounce you do its safer for tree and man. I've seen the effects of a gaffed calf muscle. It turned a novice climber into a nursery worker.

in response to newguy 18 dont forget cocos are monocots and their dia. stays the same throughout thier life span. No outer compartmentilization. In hawaii some trees that the city prunes around the beachs have been deemed un safe from gaffing to many times.

newguy18 · 12th January 2008, 09:15 AM

I'm with Ekka on palms I don't trust fronds with my life and I don't use ladders period.Frig the palms I come first.However upon request I will use a couple of rope slings for footloops around valuble palms.I use them on pines where the lowest branches are 80 foot up.

arborjockey · 12th January 2008, 10:08 AM

I use a ladder for the first 30 feet when its a long climb. If the first branch is 80' you still should not have to spike. Use a big shot or a guy your size should be able to use a throw bag. Im little guy but am still good for at least 70' with a 12 0z. bag and accurate. I just dont do spikes.

newguy18 · 12th January 2008, 10:35 AM

I only spike palms.When doing pine trees I use rope slings and a flip line.I don't have a big shot.When I get within 30' of the limbs I throw my climbing rope to it and work it down the tie in and up I go.Like I said I on palms I don't trust the fronds and I'm certainly not going up a ladder.if requested I'll use the foot loops on the palms but its slow going and not efficent.frig those palms.

View Poll Results: Is it ok to use spurs when prunning ?
ok if used for power line clearence ?	3	3.80%
Ok if the price is cheaper for homeowner ?	2	2.53%
Ok if used a ladder for the frist 20 feet so mark arent seen?	1	1.27%
If spurs make the climb safer it is OK ?	10	12.66%
Only hacks use spikes to prune trees ?	66	83.54%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

6th January 2008, 08:12 PM	#126 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,318	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on Arborjockey, We're talking about it because alot of people go both ways, and for different reasons. Companies doing line clearances and such won't pay someone to prune without gaffs, apparently. Some customers refuse to pay what it would cost to properly prune a tree which needs it badly, and some species are more tolerant to it. Beyond that, it's a good thread for helping lurkers out there who prune with gaffs but won't speak up on here, to see what they're doing wrong; as well as helping to show people different approaches that can be taken to do things the right way I'm glad you operate using proper techniques and its cool that you've NEVER gaff'd a tree while pruning, even when you were just starting out as a completely newb climber. That's pretty cool since some of us didn't know about the right way to do things when we were starting. I wish I could say that I've never made mistakes like that while on my learning curve. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

6th January 2008, 09:26 PM	#127 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,857	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on Sadly I've gaffed trees but that was before I knew better.Now I gaff palms. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

6th January 2008, 09:45 PM	#128 (permalink)
dannyboysfc Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: California Posts: 123	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on I've been watching this thread for a while, while debating this question in my own mind and was gonna give my oppinion but changed my mind

7th January 2008, 05:47 AM	#130 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,857	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on the video doesn't work. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

7th January 2008, 12:00 PM	#131 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,748	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on Crikey, stuffed up, does work now though. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

7th January 2008, 02:04 PM	#132 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,857	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on yeah it works.I'm with you I don't trust those fronds to hold me and i'm only 225 with gear. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

7th January 2008, 06:59 PM	#133 (permalink)
dannyboysfc Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: California Posts: 123	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on I swear that looks just like a Washingtonia from what I could see in the video.

7th January 2008, 11:59 PM	#134 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,748	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on Nah mate, that's an Ozzi Livistona palm, I spelled it a little wrong. Here's a link to google pics. livistona palm - Google Image Search There's some subtle differences. 1/ They dont hold that beard as bad. 2/ Where the frond meets the tree (petiole) you dont get that criss/cross pattern ... they come out square and flat. 3/ The tips of the fronds are droopy. 4/ The barbs are smaller and black and detach easily ... so when you get stabbed they break off in you! They're better looking and better to work on, those Washy's are BAD ASS! Did you notice the nice clean trunk I went up, no fur and junk like a washy. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

8th January 2008, 05:00 AM	#135 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,857	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on Thats the first time I ever saw you wearing gloves.heres a complete list of trees in my area. Native Trees for North Florida i'll try and find one with pics of each tree or at least foliage. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

12th January 2008, 01:33 AM	#136 (permalink)
dannyboysfc Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: California Posts: 123	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on So back to the topic of pruning with spurs on. How could I efficiently climb a 50-60 foot tall palm without spikes? Along the same lines, I was wondering what method climbers use to clean a palm that has a full beard. Acording to OSHA or ANSI(dont remember where I read it) on a palm that has more than 3 years of dead fronds you are required to start trimming from the top of the tree and are required to use a false crotch device. I threw in the photo just because

12th January 2008, 09:15 AM	#138 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,857	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on I'm with Ekka on palms I don't trust fronds with my life and I don't use ladders period.Frig the palms I come first.However upon request I will use a couple of rope slings for footloops around valuble palms.I use them on pines where the lowest branches are 80 foot up. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

12th January 2008, 10:08 AM	#139 (permalink)
arborjockey Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: hawaii. ohio. oregon. california Posts: 140	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on I use a ladder for the first 30 feet when its a long climb. If the first branch is 80' you still should not have to spike. Use a big shot or a guy your size should be able to use a throw bag. Im little guy but am still good for at least 70' with a 12 0z. bag and accurate. I just dont do spikes.

12th January 2008, 10:35 AM	#140 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,857	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on I only spike palms.When doing pine trees I use rope slings and a flip line.I don't have a big shot.When I get within 30' of the limbs I throw my climbing rope to it and work it down the tie in and up I go.Like I said I on palms I don't trust the fronds and I'm certainly not going up a ladder.if requested I'll use the foot loops on the palms but its slow going and not efficent.frig those palms. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related