your take on pruning with spurs on

bigshea13 · 2nd January 2008, 11:14 AM

The power lines are only 120vac or 240vac, so they don't really bother me as much,

not to be picky but those that are under 240v to a residential structure are considered service lines. they come after the transformers and go directly to the residence.

heres how it goes shorthand: power is produced{usually nuclearor hydro}
they need to get it places so they run big transmission lines over long fairly straight distances. they carry the "power" over long distances with little loss by using very high voltages and very low ampheres. higher amps=high heat heat is considered a loss. nptice the trani lines are much larger that other lines{also to decrease heat.
when they need to spur off to feed a town they use substation transformers to step down the voltage.the voltage is decrease while the amperage is increased equaly as to keep it the same as the voltage/amp ratio on the trani lines. from there they "distribute" the power via distribution lines. those are the ones you usually see when you look up driving threw town.
now thats it at your house you need either 120v or 240v and you need usually 200amps worth so they step the voltage down again and literally turn up the amperage. these lines are every bit as deadly as the others.
power is measured in watts and thats what you are being charged by{kilowatts per hour} watts=volts*amps if you have 120v and 200amps you ahve the same wattage as if you have 1200volts at 20 amps. it a simple ratio. well not really that simple but you get the idea.
be careful around those buggers. most people think you can get close to or grab them because of the"insulation" on them. its not insulation. its a protective coating . when it weather checks and cracks there can be voltage leakage due to moistures and oils on the coating and you could get peppered. if been nailed and it sucks. luckily the path to ground threw me was piss poor. be careful man.

newguy18 · 2nd January 2008, 12:00 PM

i don't fool with power too often but I've been right up around secondary and service drops but never primarys.

bigshea13 · 2nd January 2008, 02:29 PM

on the right days a person can take a flourescent bulb....stand undera kv line....hold it up and watch it illuminate. try it...its not dangerous.

newguy18 · 2nd January 2008, 03:01 PM

You mean the lines on steel towers?

bigshea13 · 2nd January 2008, 04:29 PM

yep! those ones. i dont work for asplundh right now but i will be very shortly. when i do get my cert i wonder how that ll work out. Ill have to find a job in another part of the industry or hook. theres no way they de just say"ok, we see your a cert arb. out of respect we ll allow you to trim every time without gaffs. even if you are only able to trim 1/3 or less trees in the same amount of time. that portion of the industry is all about production. they get paid by the "mile". id like to know how other line clearence tree workers do it . do any of you guys know how its done differently anywhre else. ive never seen a line clearance worker climb a tree on worktime without spikes.
its not an issue that a couple of rogue climbers will be able to take a moral stand, draw the attention of key figures and change the mindsets of thousands. as much as i regret to inform ...its a matter of money. power distribution is a gigantic buisness. billions of dollars a minute nationwide, maybe more. I think that the outcome could play like this:
cert arb, as wellas those wishing to engage in the100% pro tree can be as informative to the public as feasibly possible keeping in mind that bad information is very bad information so make sure you know what your talking about. from there the public is going to have to decide { do I giva shit about my trees or dont I} this is where the sharp tree guy,cert arb, comes in. they have to be knowlegeable enough to impress and crafty enough persuade.
maybe eventually over time we can encourage people to contact their local state and government agencies to vioce their concerns. america is over run by big buisness. their actions ususally f*ck us all. they operate with no regard for the future other than will i make more tomorrow? it trickels down to the people that depend on them for employment....cause its either conform or get the hell out. i really think this crap goes on because poeple are unaware ofnay other method.
ill tell ya i just bought a laptop 4 months ago and man has it opened up my eyes. these forums are a great way to view everyones opinion.....sit back and think about what you read.....and reply. my whole approach to the way i conduct myself in natures arena is gonna change for the better.......even if it is slower.

newguy18 · 2nd January 2008, 06:07 PM

hey I know what you mean.The line clearance guys move quicker on spurs?i actually climb quicker with out them but thats what they use.Would I personally do line clearance?No I actually turned down an offer from asplunduh last january because they only have one part time climber and they wanted a full time climber.The offer was that I start dragging and chipping for 3 weeks and then start assisting the climber and after 2 weeks of assisting take over half of the climbing operations.After doing that for 3 months they said I'd be a foreman running a bucket/chip rig and carrying out the climbing operations as well as working a bucket.I turned it down because I didn't want to use gaffs on trim jobs or top trees and to be totally truthful at the time I was scared of wires.

Therrin · 2nd January 2008, 09:42 PM

Alot of these guys will tell ya that it's a healthy fear to have.

I certainly climb quicker with spurs. I was reading over the cert. requirements for ISA Tree Worker stuff, noticed that you have to show up with all your equipment, etc etc, demonstrate how to tie stuff, etc, climb to a certain point. But it said somethin about a hand saw.

Whats up with that? People use hand saws? I was readin along thinkin "yup, I've got that" or "yup, I can do that" and then went "wtf..."

And then the stuff about hitches. I haven't used them for climbing in a while, I use other stuff. I'm guessing they want you to show that you're proficient with hitches, just for the test? Or can you use mechanical devices on the testing?

Lastly... said you could take up to 30 minutes to descend from your second station. Just how high up is this stuff? Why would you need up to 30 mins to descend from a tree?

newguy18 · 2nd January 2008, 09:49 PM

Yes people use hand saws.I use them while pruning smaller stuff or tripping certain dynamic cuts that would be down right dangerous with a chainsaw.They want you to use a friction hitch for the climbing setup because it is basic stuff that they think everyone should know.I think the reason behind giving you 30 minutes for a descent is so you don't fly like a bat outta hell in 30 seconds even though thats my usual descent speed.Remeber its basically about saftey not speed or practcallity.Basically if the ansi says it do it no matter how akward it seems.I know it'll be hard when I go in for my certifacation.
International Society of Arboriculture

bigshea13 · 3rd January 2008, 07:54 AM

working line clearence , hitches are all day long! sometimes ya pack your gear inward up to a mile or more into bush to work. the less you bring...the less you have to lug around from tree to tree. its a catch 22 if you dont hook em youll ahve to bring in a piece of equipment like skidder bucket. the skidders usually trash the terrain while making their way down the line. i guess we could argue all day about the hook thing but ive been in the line clearece on and off for the last 11 years and unless the utilities are willin to accept less progress for the same amount of money hooking will alway be the practice in that end of the buisness.
line crews are generally a piss poor place to start your career in the industry. they hire grunt to do the chipping and raking, let em run a bucket, and then send em up to trim around the lines just as fast as they came in the door. this poses a huge safety factor. when your rigging over a kv line there is absolutely NO room for error. if a line were to be brought down it could fry everyone below. FRY!

I learn alot everyday , but theres alot more to being an arborist than just rippin down trees. {even though its a blast} ive found that i enjoy planting and trying to figure out problems with the trees so that i can help it instead of just removing it. read..read....read....read.

thats the wonderful thing about the internet. its all there at the touch of a button. click.

newguy18 · 3rd January 2008, 08:23 AM

Yeah i know what you mean just taking down trees in tight quarters just doesn't excite me anymore not as much as learning how to do proper treecare and how to correct mistakes made by other people.Therrin let me know when your done with whatI sent you and I'l dig up some more light reading for you.

bigshea13 · 3rd January 2008, 09:33 AM

oh it still makes me hard doing take downs but if i can find other aspect of buisness to get excited about then i can be aroused alll the time instead of for just a few hours at a time

Therrin · 3rd January 2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshea13

oh it still makes me hard doing take downs....

I could've gone all day without reading that and been perfectly happy

It did make me remember something though. I was doin a TD for someone, they rented the chipper, and was chipping as I was lowering the stuff down. I was about 45' up, reached my leg out to position myself and my pants ripped right through the crotch (of the pants), dropping "myself" outta the opening. (I'm a skivvy'less type), the guy's wife was standing under me watching and I saw her gasp, turning bright red as she averted her eyes and tried not to watch.

I ended up rappelling down with my legs crossed, and her hubby gave me an pair of Carhartts that I still use for tree work.

That's an uncomfortable feeling though, wielding a chainsaw around with "yourself" hanging out in the open. Rather embarrassing too. I think I'd be just fine if it never happened to me again. She's probably still scarred for life... mebbe I should've given a discount for it.

bigshea13 · 3rd January 2008, 09:01 PM

I should've given a discount for it.
__________________

ya did...................1/2 off!

osb_mail · 3rd January 2008, 09:15 PM

Therrin used work with a guy like you did not like undergarments .How did I know he liked to brag about the comfort of no undergarments and shorts as he was holding the leg of his shorts up to the truck air conditioner vent on the truck . So the one he wears boxer because his pants are ripped at the seam . He tears his boxer seams and has to wear yellow rain pants on a 95 degree day also the company I worked for you did not have wear shirts . So here he was on 95 degree day with yellow rain pants and no shirt wow what a sight . Another time I was climbing wearing blue jeans old pair kind of worn and me pocket got caught on a branch while I was moving around , I wear boxer so I thought no big deal so when finished the day . I chatted with the homeowner as I packed my gear on my way home decided feel see what the damaged on my pants was and grabbed a hand full on bare ass opps I must have torn my boxers to haha !

Ekka · 3rd January 2008, 09:30 PM

Heck, you guys are just streakers!

2nd January 2008, 11:14 AM	#101 (permalink)
bigshea13 Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 378	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on The power lines are only 120vac or 240vac, so they don't really bother me as much, not to be picky but those that are under 240v to a residential structure are considered service lines. they come after the transformers and go directly to the residence. heres how it goes shorthand: power is produced{usually nuclearor hydro} they need to get it places so they run big transmission lines over long fairly straight distances. they carry the "power" over long distances with little loss by using very high voltages and very low ampheres. higher amps=high heat heat is considered a loss. nptice the trani lines are much larger that other lines{also to decrease heat. when they need to spur off to feed a town they use substation transformers to step down the voltage.the voltage is decrease while the amperage is increased equaly as to keep it the same as the voltage/amp ratio on the trani lines. from there they "distribute" the power via distribution lines. those are the ones you usually see when you look up driving threw town. now thats it at your house you need either 120v or 240v and you need usually 200amps worth so they step the voltage down again and literally turn up the amperage. these lines are every bit as deadly as the others. power is measured in watts and thats what you are being charged by{kilowatts per hour} watts=volts*amps if you have 120v and 200amps you ahve the same wattage as if you have 1200volts at 20 amps. it a simple ratio. well not really that simple but you get the idea. be careful around those buggers. most people think you can get close to or grab them because of the"insulation" on them. its not insulation. its a protective coating . when it weather checks and cracks there can be voltage leakage due to moistures and oils on the coating and you could get peppered. if been nailed and it sucks. luckily the path to ground threw me was piss poor. be careful man.

2nd January 2008, 12:00 PM	#102 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 4,062	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on i don't fool with power too often but I've been right up around secondary and service drops but never primarys. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA "Everybody's hell on safety." G.f.beranek. www.atreestory.com

2nd January 2008, 02:29 PM	#103 (permalink)
bigshea13 Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 378	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on on the right days a person can take a flourescent bulb....stand undera kv line....hold it up and watch it illuminate. try it...its not dangerous.

2nd January 2008, 03:01 PM	#104 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 4,062	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on You mean the lines on steel towers? __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA "Everybody's hell on safety." G.f.beranek. www.atreestory.com

2nd January 2008, 04:29 PM	#105 (permalink)
bigshea13 Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 378	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on yep! those ones. i dont work for asplundh right now but i will be very shortly. when i do get my cert i wonder how that ll work out. Ill have to find a job in another part of the industry or hook. theres no way they de just say"ok, we see your a cert arb. out of respect we ll allow you to trim every time without gaffs. even if you are only able to trim 1/3 or less trees in the same amount of time. that portion of the industry is all about production. they get paid by the "mile". id like to know how other line clearence tree workers do it . do any of you guys know how its done differently anywhre else. ive never seen a line clearance worker climb a tree on worktime without spikes. its not an issue that a couple of rogue climbers will be able to take a moral stand, draw the attention of key figures and change the mindsets of thousands. as much as i regret to inform ...its a matter of money. power distribution is a gigantic buisness. billions of dollars a minute nationwide, maybe more. I think that the outcome could play like this: cert arb, as wellas those wishing to engage in the100% pro tree can be as informative to the public as feasibly possible keeping in mind that bad information is very bad information so make sure you know what your talking about. from there the public is going to have to decide { do I giva shit about my trees or dont I} this is where the sharp tree guy,cert arb, comes in. they have to be knowlegeable enough to impress and crafty enough persuade. maybe eventually over time we can encourage people to contact their local state and government agencies to vioce their concerns. america is over run by big buisness. their actions ususally f*ck us all. they operate with no regard for the future other than will i make more tomorrow? it trickels down to the people that depend on them for employment....cause its either conform or get the hell out. i really think this crap goes on because poeple are unaware ofnay other method. ill tell ya i just bought a laptop 4 months ago and man has it opened up my eyes. these forums are a great way to view everyones opinion.....sit back and think about what you read.....and reply. my whole approach to the way i conduct myself in natures arena is gonna change for the better.......even if it is slower.

2nd January 2008, 06:07 PM	#106 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 4,062	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on hey I know what you mean.The line clearance guys move quicker on spurs?i actually climb quicker with out them but thats what they use.Would I personally do line clearance?No I actually turned down an offer from asplunduh last january because they only have one part time climber and they wanted a full time climber.The offer was that I start dragging and chipping for 3 weeks and then start assisting the climber and after 2 weeks of assisting take over half of the climbing operations.After doing that for 3 months they said I'd be a foreman running a bucket/chip rig and carrying out the climbing operations as well as working a bucket.I turned it down because I didn't want to use gaffs on trim jobs or top trees and to be totally truthful at the time I was scared of wires. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA "Everybody's hell on safety." G.f.beranek. www.atreestory.com

2nd January 2008, 09:42 PM	#107 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,424	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on Alot of these guys will tell ya that it's a healthy fear to have. I certainly climb quicker with spurs. I was reading over the cert. requirements for ISA Tree Worker stuff, noticed that you have to show up with all your equipment, etc etc, demonstrate how to tie stuff, etc, climb to a certain point. But it said somethin about a hand saw. Whats up with that? People use hand saws? I was readin along thinkin "yup, I've got that" or "yup, I can do that" and then went "wtf..." And then the stuff about hitches. I haven't used them for climbing in a while, I use other stuff. I'm guessing they want you to show that you're proficient with hitches, just for the test? Or can you use mechanical devices on the testing? Lastly... said you could take up to 30 minutes to descend from your second station. Just how high up is this stuff? Why would you need up to 30 mins to descend from a tree? __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

2nd January 2008, 09:49 PM	#108 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 4,062	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on Yes people use hand saws.I use them while pruning smaller stuff or tripping certain dynamic cuts that would be down right dangerous with a chainsaw.They want you to use a friction hitch for the climbing setup because it is basic stuff that they think everyone should know.I think the reason behind giving you 30 minutes for a descent is so you don't fly like a bat outta hell in 30 seconds even though thats my usual descent speed.Remeber its basically about saftey not speed or practcallity.Basically if the ansi says it do it no matter how akward it seems.I know it'll be hard when I go in for my certifacation. International Society of Arboriculture __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA "Everybody's hell on safety." G.f.beranek. www.atreestory.com

3rd January 2008, 07:54 AM	#109 (permalink)
bigshea13 Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 378	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on working line clearence , hitches are all day long! sometimes ya pack your gear inward up to a mile or more into bush to work. the less you bring...the less you have to lug around from tree to tree. its a catch 22 if you dont hook em youll ahve to bring in a piece of equipment like skidder bucket. the skidders usually trash the terrain while making their way down the line. i guess we could argue all day about the hook thing but ive been in the line clearece on and off for the last 11 years and unless the utilities are willin to accept less progress for the same amount of money hooking will alway be the practice in that end of the buisness. line crews are generally a piss poor place to start your career in the industry. they hire grunt to do the chipping and raking, let em run a bucket, and then send em up to trim around the lines just as fast as they came in the door. this poses a huge safety factor. when your rigging over a kv line there is absolutely NO room for error. if a line were to be brought down it could fry everyone below. FRY! I learn alot everyday , but theres alot more to being an arborist than just rippin down trees. {even though its a blast} ive found that i enjoy planting and trying to figure out problems with the trees so that i can help it instead of just removing it. read..read....read....read.thats the wonderful thing about the internet. its all there at the touch of a button. click.

3rd January 2008, 08:23 AM	#110 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Dead twig Florida. Posts: 4,062	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on Yeah i know what you mean just taking down trees in tight quarters just doesn't excite me anymore not as much as learning how to do proper treecare and how to correct mistakes made by other people.Therrin let me know when your done with whatI sent you and I'l dig up some more light reading for you. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA "Everybody's hell on safety." G.f.beranek. www.atreestory.com

3rd January 2008, 09:33 AM	#111 (permalink)
bigshea13 Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 378	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on oh it still makes me hard doing take downs but if i can find other aspect of buisness to get excited about then i can be aroused alll the time instead of for just a few hours at a time

3rd January 2008, 09:01 PM	#113 (permalink)
bigshea13 Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 378	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on I should've given a discount for it. __________________ ya did...................1/2 off!

3rd January 2008, 09:15 PM	#114 (permalink)
osb_mail Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ohio Posts: 219	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on Therrin used work with a guy like you did not like undergarments .How did I know he liked to brag about the comfort of no undergarments and shorts as he was holding the leg of his shorts up to the truck air conditioner vent on the truck . So the one he wears boxer because his pants are ripped at the seam . He tears his boxer seams and has to wear yellow rain pants on a 95 degree day also the company I worked for you did not have wear shirts . So here he was on 95 degree day with yellow rain pants and no shirt wow what a sight . Another time I was climbing wearing blue jeans old pair kind of worn and me pocket got caught on a branch while I was moving around , I wear boxer so I thought no big deal so when finished the day . I chatted with the homeowner as I packed my gear on my way home decided feel see what the damaged on my pants was and grabbed a hand full on bare ass opps I must have torn my boxers to haha !

3rd January 2008, 09:30 PM	#115 (permalink)
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 7,734	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on Heck, you guys are just streakers! __________________ Arborist Training in Australia\| Your Free Helping Guide Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory .... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Tree Care, Consulting, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors