your take on pruning with spurs on

newguy18

i voted on the poll I voted if it makes the climb safer.Hey when it comes down to it if theres no alternative and flat out saftey comes before the tree.I haven't used spikes on a prune job so far and hope I never have to.Oh btw rope don't they make saws with heated handles for people who see weather in the teens?

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ropensaddle

Yeah but never figured out how to keep warm huddled up to a saw

newguy18

How on earth do you guys climb in all that winter gear?It would be like a christmas story I can't put my arms down.

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ropensaddle

Well you starts out fresh from summer and add a little
more clothes as ye go until ye look like a grizzly baar
and when spring gets here you feel like you are on
springs with all that weight off

newguy18

Do you guys climb like bears too?

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Therrin

I've done it in weather at or below freezing. I think it has to do with propper layering. If you wear TOO much clothes, then you work up a sweat, and freeze your arse off. Of course, if you don't wear enough, you still freeze your arse off. It's all about finding the right layering for you.

Or you could just stay inside on those days

ropensaddle

Nah baars are too slow and hibernated by then maybe we could learn from
bears

newguy18

Heck I'm usually swimming christmas day.Suppose to get super cold here tonite like 45 or so.

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ropensaddle

It aint been cold here yet was 29 this mourning

newguy18

thats freezing how do you tolerate it?

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ropensaddle

Well if you get working it really isn't that bad I don't wear a coat
until she gets in the teens but then I have hair on my back

newguy18

Are you sure your not part bear?i just messin man last winter we saw the teens here just no snow or ice.

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Therrin

Was about 34 here most of the day. Snowed last night.
Had to be up to do those 10 pines today. Sucks getting up to a cold house.

Found that if I wore thermal pants under my jeans, and just a long sleeved teeshirt, I could cruise at a comfy working temperature. Problem was that by 4pm, everytime I stopped to fuel & oil a saw, the temp had dropped to below freezing again and I'd turn to ice standing there in my tee. Wore a sweater but then got too hot, sweated, and froze more. Hate this weather....

newguy18

heck I'm moving out there in the spring.i'm looking at the fort bragg area or maybe mendecino county area.

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Eric Frei

Never had to think about ya sweat freezing! THAT'S COLD.

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ronnyb

Snow, snow, and more snow. We've been snow plowing for most of the last 2 weeks. As far as dressing for the cold- layers. No cotton either, it traps sweat. I tend to dress light. Thin long underwear, Mountain Hardwear pants, long sleeve teeshirt, synthetic long sleeve top, and my insulated hoodie. When it's time to climb, I take the hoodie off. You do have to move fast, and when you do you warm up to a comfortable temperature. Big removals aren't fun, waiting for the groundies to take care of the limb and get the rope back to you. You just have to keep constantly moving.

Eric Frei

Lets see some ice climbing snow pics then, this'll be good. Must be a bugger raking up.

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bigshea13

just got back from oaklahoma where the trees are f*cked and the ice is thick. i dont care how good you think you are........you dont climb these guys hookless.

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newguy18

I'm probabley gonna get chewed out for this but if its a matter of personal saftey then ???? the tree.I've never had to use gaffs on a trim job yet but who knows the day may very well come.

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bigshea13

more pics of dendrocicles

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yooper

Raking in the snow to funny, when I did r.o.w. work we would just step the crap into the snow, as we wher bent over pretending to pick it up .we average about 300 inches of snow here once lake superior cools down. and on a good yr I have seen over 400in. I dont do to much winter work now that I work for my self...just dont get the calls.. other wise I would. but when I do I just make a deal to show up in the spring to clean up the rakings. This year we dont have much snow yet was a couple feet on the ground a few days ago but got warm rained and only about a foot now.my winter entertainment

quercus

I can't believe what I'm reading here and I can't believe some of you are pruning with spurs...Even palms...
Palms are also trees in my humble opinion.
Like Shigo said: if it's big enough to fall over and kill you, it's a tree.
All people are created equal, and therefore all trees are created equal. I respect a tree like I would respect another human being. The ability to understand a tree and to respect it, is what makes us arborists. My mentors always tought me, that there are no ugly or beatifull trees. Only healthy and mutilated trees...

-Pruning with gaffs is definitely a no-no on ALL trees. The ability to prune without the use of gaffs is what makes us go trough life as arborists, instead of treebutchers.Who cares if one can see the wounds in the tree or not. Who cares if the wounds in the tree only begin at a certain height? I would know that they are there and wouldn't be able to sleep for a week. If you are not able to prune without them, then don't prune at all. If there wasn't a way to prune without gaffs, I'd find a way and by doing so, I'd distinguish myself as an arborist.

-If a branch of a tree is not thick or strong enough to use as a tie in point, then it probably won't be heavy enough to create serious damage if it were to fall of that tree. Instead of climbing with gaffs I'd create a perimeter around the tree so even if branches fall off, they wouldn't create damage at all.

-If I get a contract for clearing powerlines, then that company must rely on my expertise instead of putting me under pressure. Climbing under pressure is definitely a mistake to begin with. I wouldn't set my principles aside to make a quick euro, for you guys that's a quick dollar. This is also something what makes us arborists, instead of treebutchers. The powerline company must understand this and you have to make them understand, that the wounds whom will definitely occur during pruning with gaffs, are most likely to create more damage in the future. The fact that they hire an arborist to begin with, is proof that they can't do it themselves and therefore need someone with expertise. Why would they hire someone and then say to that person how he is supposed to do his job? Have you ever let a client decide on the techniques or how you are supposed to do your job?

-The fact that one cannot climb fast enough to meet the client's demands or to meet the quote he has given, does not give him the right to mutilate a tree in any way.If we conduct our business this way, we are proving that money comes before knowledge, safety and the health of the tree and that's certainly NOT what an arborist stands for. You have to make them understand that it's gonna be your way or no way. Explain why it simply can't be done with gaffs, and explain the reason why in many cases the tree-problem is getting even bigger even if it may seem that the problem they're having now is solved.

-Ekka, I'm surprised to hear that you, the man who has made a nice video of a perfectly good and safe trunk walk, climb with gaffs to prune on certain trees. Even palms are to be respected in every way possible. People have been climbing big palms without gaffs or specialized equipment for century's, maybe even for thousands of years. Are you now saying that it can't be done, even knowing that the gear we have now is exponentially safer then the gear they had then? I've seen thai-arborists (without gaffs) prune trees without the use of specialized gear. I've seen them succesfully pruning very big branches over glass structures using only one thick rope and the most beatiful spider-legs one can imagine... All that without the use of hooks, slings, grcs's or whatever. Sure, it takes longer, but the result is the same. We have to remind ourselves once in a while that other people all over the world , who might not be so lucky to have all this gear, still are getting the job done... So think about that before you say that a certain job can't be done.

-someone needed an explanation as to what snow ACTUALLY is? Very simple. Snow is only frozen water. There's only one rule regarding to snow.
DON'T EAT YELLOW SNOW!!!

jim1nz

I like your ethical arb passion quercus, good on ya

Therrin

Well I guess now that someone has broched the "yellow snow" joke we can all stop wondering who it's gonna be.

And Quercus, I think you're probably right. I figured out a way to do the pines that I had mentioned without gaffs. You'd only need about 500 feet of tubular webbing, but you could do it I suppose. Maybe I'll try it someday =)

Most of the stuff out here isn't cleared because someone's worried where the branches are gonna drop, or that they don't love their trees.... they're worried about the stuff catching on FIRE like a tiki torch and setting their house on fire.
I'd say that at that place, the trees aren't of a propper type for that area, or their location to the structures. But I still think that open-mindedness has a place on the table, alongside passion.

bigshea13

hey querqus.. what a beautifully constructed sinerio. too bad the picture you painted doesnt fit on my wall. when your confronted with the dilema of someone needing work{ leader removal or even deadwood removal} but they dont have close to enough cash to pay for the professional job one must make a decision. do i 1.)leave the tree, the potential danger because i cant obtain the needed rate to justifiably do the job. 2.) do the job for peanuts.. because my next goal in life is to become a member of the red cross. 3.) or do the job in 1/4 of the time, effort, and cash with hooks on.
For me the choice is obvious. ive hooked right of ways for utilities on 3yr cycles. im no stranger to the effects of gaffs on trees. its my opinion that done with care and caution a tree will fair just fine after a hooked trim.
As far as the utilities and their regulations...its like telling opec they need to instill better regulations on oil pricing. its not going to happen. time is money to the utilities, LOTTSA FRIGGIN MONEY!!! if we could all make it in life on our love of trees alone then we'd all be rich. If they had it their way all right of ways would be clearcut , mowed and sprayed with some kind of herbicide. so i guess unless you could set em up with some "real" arborists that are able to maintain(without hooks) the amount if power lines that a crew like mine does , you owe guys like me a thank you for risking our lives maintaining those lines and keeping them from being clearcut and sprayed.
you know querkiss, theres more to it than just right and wrong. judging from your remarks your not acustom to tall, ice, and snow covered trees around kv lines. is this correct. sometimes you have to put things into perspective and be realistic.

Eric Frei

This is great.

I'll be handing a few of these out soon.

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newguy18

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Jamie Myers

[B"]Ekka, I'm surprised to hear that you, the man who has made a nice video of a perfectly good and safe trunk walk, climb with gaffs to prune on certain trees. Even palms are to be respected in every way possible. People have been climbing big palms without gaffs or specialized equipment for century's, maybe even for thousands of years. Are you now saying that it can't be done, even knowing that the gear we have now is exponentially safer then the gear they had then? I've seen thai-arborists (without gaffs) prune trees without the use of specialized gear. I've seen them succesfully pruning very big branches over glass structures using only one thick rope and the most beatiful spider-legs one can imagine... All that without the use of hooks, slings, grcs's or whatever. Sure, it takes longer, but the result is the same. We have to remind ourselves once in a while that other people all over the world , who might not be so lucky to have all this gear, still are getting the job done... So think about that before you say that a certain job can't be done" quercus
[/B]

Nice in theory but how many of these people fall to their deaths, our climbing equipment has evolved for safety of the worker over years. i have been in this industry for 20 years and over that time have seen many changes and each point in time we think what we are doing is the best it can get. Rest assured changes will come some good some bad, thats what is exciting about our industry its evolving every day and we as arborists are driving that. This forum is driving that also as knowlage is no good if its not shared. Debate is good just keep it civil learn from each other not shoot each other down.

All the best for the Christmas Season

jim1nz

For sure we all have to be realistic in our work but if we all try to do our little bit... Seriously if we at least try to improve the arb world scene, the environment around us then everyones better off a.

jim1nz

nice one pomme