your take on pruning with spurs on

newguy18 · 10th November 2007, 08:57 AM

I agree with Ekka it depends on the situation because I spike palms and palmettoes.other than thataround here I rope climb for trim jobs but I gaff my removals.

playfordtree · 10th November 2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevMcRev

Only hacks use spikes to prune trees.

I dont buy into speed as an excuse. Its a matter of being efficient with other techniques. If you dont try them and practice till you are efficient then of course the way you know will be quicker for you. If your good at it you can set a throwline and footlock up pretty quick. But it takes practice.

Think back to your first attempt at getting off the ground on spikes. Pretty slow, awkward and inefficient hey. If ya wrote off that tool then just because you couldnt use them well the first time you wouldnt be fast on them now.

We can all make choices. I know i wouldnt work for anyone that did and i wouldnt employ anyone that thought it necessary.

Hey Trev, never mind my first time in spikes, i am still slow, awkward, and inefficient and i have used them heaps.

For you top climbers, watching me spike a tree must be like watching a hippopotamus trying to mount a giraffe.

a_lopa · 10th November 2007, 10:27 PM

Taken i wouldnt spike a significant/valued tree but if im out the backblocks and its safer with the spikes on its spiked.Sticks n stones and all that...

DOOMED TO HACKDOM!!!LOL

Ekka · 10th November 2007, 11:19 PM

what about for aerial rescue? We were trained to SPIKE.

shaggs · 13th November 2007, 01:58 AM

Spikes for removals, cocos n rescue. But with coco's, I try to at least climb on the side that nobody will see, ie the side not facing the house. Then try and retrace the spike maks down. I do about a day of pure coco's palms a week, and every time I remind the customers what a crappy tree they are and how much better they would look.....at the tip!

TrevMcRev · 13th November 2007, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

what about for aerial rescue? We were trained to SPIKE.

For rescue, whatevers quickest, and that wont always be spikes depending on tree and position climber is in.

I've always thought it'd be great to rock up to the aerial rescue section at a climbing competition and just spike up the bugger. How many points for that again?

treekiwi · 14th November 2007, 01:10 PM

No matter how you look at it, i think pruning with spikes is detrimental to the health of the tree,
We must remember the only real growing part of the tree is the cambium directly underneath the bark, even if where spiking thick bark the likelyhood of hitting cambium is high because its only just under the surface of the bark, hence the reason why bark is so thick on some trees, perhaps they require more protection?
We had a few pine trees we spiked at college, bark was thick but there is definately signs of dieback over a few years spiking.

What do you think?

JayD · 14th November 2007, 10:37 PM

It's just like a prize fighter, How many blows can he handle before he starts spiraling to the canvas,..A wound is a wound and the tree has to deal with it using resourse it could be using esle where.
To true Tev, The fastest safest method to get to and rescue the injured climber, As soon as it's designated " Rescue" The method you use to rescue as long as it's safe and within the guide lines...which spurs are..How could they mark you down..LOL..

Ekka · 15th November 2007, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treekiwi

We must remember the only real growing part of the tree is the cambium directly underneath the bark

Not true for palms, they have 100% as vascular system, you can ring bark a palm but it wont die ..... ever! Might rot and fall over though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by treekiwi

We had a few pine trees we spiked at college, bark was thick but there is definately signs of dieback over a few years spiking.

What do you think?

Jim1NZ told me of this particular living pine that got riddled with spike wounds, and it declined. I'd say it's the same one. Of course it's a negative thing ... even in palms.

bigshea13 · 15th November 2007, 02:24 AM

well, hacks are we? trevver you ever climb in the dead of winter. 10 below. 3 feet of snow. maybe a layer of ice on everything. pretty sure you havent. now climb in those conditions over energized lines with a full arsenal of clothing and gear including bigger boots. just to make it even more realistic pack all of the gear back into your work area by hand first as to ensure that you break a nice cooling sweat before hand. the clearing of the lines to supply power to the people, thier schools, resurants, factories, homes, hospitals {and the list goes on} and the required techniques used to do so far outweigh any popular opinion. no there are few regulations regarding right of way maintainance because in order for the area to function it needs power! after you climb and trimm 50-60 trees a day for 10,12 years the technique begins to morph to match the speed. once you join my crew and work along side us up here in the boondocks then maybe guys like myself will give your opinion on the issue a second thought. till then i guess us hacks will have to keep defending our right to do our job intelligently........with spikes.
ps if you want us to stop hooking send us cash to reimburse us for the job we lost to the "hack" down the road who will use spikes.

Ekka · 15th November 2007, 02:52 AM

I only ever seen snow 1 day in my entire life!

Frozen trees? Never encountered them either.

Climb with all those balaclavas and jackets ... You nuts?

Gloves? Only for prickly palms.

Nope, I have no idea what you go through and hats off to you coz around these parts when it gets below 10C people make like it's hell freezing over!

newguy18 · 15th November 2007, 07:04 AM

When it gets a tad below 60 i break out my winter coat.

Btw what is this snow?I'm gonna have to google that.

redstree · 15th November 2007, 12:37 PM

I live in a state that had the first arborist laws in the USofA. Dating back to the 1920s. They were written into the state statutes under the Department of Consumer Protection. Included among those first laws was one prohibiting the spiking of live trees that were not going to be completely removed.

So, I was brought up that you never prune from spikes/spurs/gaffs. Guess I don't know any better.

I spent some time in Hawaii and California where I worked for companies that had contracts pruning street palm trees and I spiked every single one of them without a second thought. Shagging up an 80'+(25m+) Fan palm (Washingtonia filifera) ain't my idea of fun.

The ISA has issued guidelines for climbing palms that includes the installation of a climbing line over the top of a palm and ascending the rope to prune. Thank goodness I no longer have to worry about pruning those things. I could not imagine trusting the fronds to hold my rope in place, not to mention the time to place a rope in each tree and ascend the rope, much less working from a rope without a solid footing while trying to prune.

My, how times have changed.

newguy18 · 15th November 2007, 01:32 PM

i just spike palms like ekka i don't make enough doing palms to justify rope climbing a palm.

JohN Dee · 16th November 2007, 08:13 PM

I don't prune with spurs on, spurless ftw. Although there have been casese where removing a large limb from a gum tree prune that I have used my spikes on the doomed limb (after gut crunching my way to the limb).

Spikes have their place in our industry, aswell as our ropes and EWP's etc.

For Therrin's line of work, I see it somewhat acceptable if he is talking about reducing the pretuding limbs from the forest that are venturing in near the big 100k Voltage lines.

For street tree utility clearance I say no. Where there are targets or influenceable public I also say no. If you do work near the last 3 points I mentioned, Therrin, why not buy a bucket truck to half your speed again and leave the trees that are in the public's eyes alone(from spikes).

As for palm cleans, we do less and less of this nowadays, but when we do, I use our biggest ladder, tied off from the bottom and top and go up in my harness and tie myself into the ladder and around the tree at the same time.

Fancy a ride to the bottom of the palm putting your life line in over the head of an Alexandra Palm? Not me thanks

.

View Poll Results: Is it ok to use spurs when prunning ?
ok if used for power line clearence ?	2	3.28%
Ok if the price is cheaper for homeowner ?	2	3.28%
Ok if used a ladder for the frist 20 feet so mark arent seen?	1	1.64%
If spurs make the climb safer it is OK ?	8	13.11%
Only hacks use spikes to prune trees ?	50	81.97%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

10th November 2007, 08:57 AM	#26 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,683	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on I agree with Ekka it depends on the situation because I spike palms and palmettoes.other than thataround here I rope climb for trim jobs but I gaff my removals. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

10th November 2007, 10:27 PM	#28 (permalink)
a_lopa Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Drouin Posts: 877	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on Taken i wouldnt spike a significant/valued tree but if im out the backblocks and its safer with the spikes on its spiked.Sticks n stones and all that... DOOMED TO HACKDOM!!!LOL __________________ Free Tree Industry Link Directory Drouin tree lopping, land clearing and stump removals

10th November 2007, 11:19 PM	#29 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on what about for aerial rescue? We were trained to SPIKE. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

13th November 2007, 01:58 AM	#30 (permalink)
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 462	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on Spikes for removals, cocos n rescue. But with coco's, I try to at least climb on the side that nobody will see, ie the side not facing the house. Then try and retrace the spike maks down. I do about a day of pure coco's palms a week, and every time I remind the customers what a crappy tree they are and how much better they would look.....at the tip!

14th November 2007, 01:10 PM	#32 (permalink)
treekiwi Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 101	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on No matter how you look at it, i think pruning with spikes is detrimental to the health of the tree, We must remember the only real growing part of the tree is the cambium directly underneath the bark, even if where spiking thick bark the likelyhood of hitting cambium is high because its only just under the surface of the bark, hence the reason why bark is so thick on some trees, perhaps they require more protection? We had a few pine trees we spiked at college, bark was thick but there is definately signs of dieback over a few years spiking. What do you think?

14th November 2007, 10:37 PM	#33 (permalink)
JayD Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 941	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on It's just like a prize fighter, How many blows can he handle before he starts spiraling to the canvas,..A wound is a wound and the tree has to deal with it using resourse it could be using esle where. To true Tev, The fastest safest method to get to and rescue the injured climber, As soon as it's designated " Rescue" The method you use to rescue as long as it's safe and within the guide lines...which spurs are..How could they mark you down..LOL.. __________________ Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory

15th November 2007, 02:24 AM	#35 (permalink)
bigshea13 Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 378	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on well, hacks are we? trevver you ever climb in the dead of winter. 10 below. 3 feet of snow. maybe a layer of ice on everything. pretty sure you havent. now climb in those conditions over energized lines with a full arsenal of clothing and gear including bigger boots. just to make it even more realistic pack all of the gear back into your work area by hand first as to ensure that you break a nice cooling sweat before hand. the clearing of the lines to supply power to the people, thier schools, resurants, factories, homes, hospitals {and the list goes on} and the required techniques used to do so far outweigh any popular opinion. no there are few regulations regarding right of way maintainance because in order for the area to function it needs power! after you climb and trimm 50-60 trees a day for 10,12 years the technique begins to morph to match the speed. once you join my crew and work along side us up here in the boondocks then maybe guys like myself will give your opinion on the issue a second thought. till then i guess us hacks will have to keep defending our right to do our job intelligently........with spikes. ps if you want us to stop hooking send us cash to reimburse us for the job we lost to the "hack" down the road who will use spikes.

15th November 2007, 02:52 AM	#36 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on I only ever seen snow 1 day in my entire life! Frozen trees? Never encountered them either. Climb with all those balaclavas and jackets ... You nuts? Gloves? Only for prickly palms. Nope, I have no idea what you go through and hats off to you coz around these parts when it gets below 10C people make like it's hell freezing over! __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

15th November 2007, 07:04 AM	#37 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,683	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on When it gets a tad below 60 i break out my winter coat.Btw what is this snow?I'm gonna have to google that. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

15th November 2007, 12:37 PM	#38 (permalink)
redstree Sappling Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: USA Posts: 23	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on I live in a state that had the first arborist laws in the USofA. Dating back to the 1920s. They were written into the state statutes under the Department of Consumer Protection. Included among those first laws was one prohibiting the spiking of live trees that were not going to be completely removed. So, I was brought up that you never prune from spikes/spurs/gaffs. Guess I don't know any better. I spent some time in Hawaii and California where I worked for companies that had contracts pruning street palm trees and I spiked every single one of them without a second thought. Shagging up an 80'+(25m+) Fan palm (Washingtonia filifera) ain't my idea of fun. The ISA has issued guidelines for climbing palms that includes the installation of a climbing line over the top of a palm and ascending the rope to prune. Thank goodness I no longer have to worry about pruning those things. I could not imagine trusting the fronds to hold my rope in place, not to mention the time to place a rope in each tree and ascend the rope, much less working from a rope without a solid footing while trying to prune. My, how times have changed. __________________ Drive a MINI, the most fun you can have with your trousers on.

15th November 2007, 01:32 PM	#39 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,683	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on i just spike palms like ekka i don't make enough doing palms to justify rope climbing a palm. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

16th November 2007, 08:13 PM	#40 (permalink)
JohN Dee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 751	Re: your take on pruning with spurs on I don't prune with spurs on, spurless ftw. Although there have been casese where removing a large limb from a gum tree prune that I have used my spikes on the doomed limb (after gut crunching my way to the limb). Spikes have their place in our industry, aswell as our ropes and EWP's etc. For Therrin's line of work, I see it somewhat acceptable if he is talking about reducing the pretuding limbs from the forest that are venturing in near the big 100k Voltage lines. For street tree utility clearance I say no. Where there are targets or influenceable public I also say no. If you do work near the last 3 points I mentioned, Therrin, why not buy a bucket truck to half your speed again and leave the trees that are in the public's eyes alone(from spikes). As for palm cleans, we do less and less of this nowadays, but when we do, I use our biggest ladder, tied off from the bottom and top and go up in my harness and tie myself into the ladder and around the tree at the same time. Fancy a ride to the bottom of the palm putting your life line in over the head of an Alexandra Palm? Not me thanks . __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue