Is your high point above or below the rigging point?

Ekka · 14th April 2007, 09:31 PM

Obviously for the example chosen we are talking a single leadered tree like a pine.

I have heard some say your tie in point should be above the rigging point as it helps you climb out further and the rigging point should be stronger.

I have also heard that your rigging point should be higher coz you dont want to snap out your high point if you overload it and also the likelihood of your lines getting caught in the rigging is lower.

Have a look at the diagram, what's your thoughts.

And yeah, bit of a poll to see what people generally do.

Sean Freeman · 14th April 2007, 10:29 PM

I voted above the rigging, but I have to complain about putting the beer option in there as you can only choose one...being dipsomanically challanged makes it very hard...no fair

. Also i generally natural crotch so that does have a big impact too.

JayD · 14th April 2007, 11:25 PM

We choose above,but we also natural crotch, we try to choose what appears to be the strongest safest method,I mean it has to be a natural branch not epicormic regrowth..but you know what I mean.Also we try to keep the climbing ropes away from the lowering.

jim1nz · 15th April 2007, 02:38 AM

Climbing point always above. But i always try to set my rigging point on a different stem/leader/branch than the one im tied into.

"I have heard some say your tie in point should be above the rigging point as it helps you climb out further and the rigging point should be stronger." Ill agree with that.

Above because;

You need to be able to safely get out on the ends of branches to tip tie. It just makes getting around the tree so much easier.

When you get to the top of the tree, its easier once you have tied in to set your rigging gear below your climbing system.

The chances of the rigging point failing with your climbing line below are greater because you will be rigging of a smaller stem.

Also on that point, the chances of your rigging point failing and taking your roping point with it are very high so whats the point of tying in below?

TreeCo · 15th April 2007, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim1nz

Climbing point always above. But i always try to set my rigging point on a different stem/leader/branch than the one im tied into.

"I have heard some say your tie in point should be above the rigging point as it helps you climb out further and the rigging point should be stronger." Ill agree with that.

Above because;

You need to be able to safely get out on the ends of branches to tip tie. It just makes getting around the tree so much easier.

When you get to the top of the tree, its easier once you have tied in to set your rigging gear below your climbing system.

The chances of the rigging point failing with your climbing line below are greater because you will be rigging of a smaller stem.

Also on that point, the chances of your rigging point failing and taking your roping point with it are very high so whats the point of tying in below?

This is almost exactly my thinking.

Fairfield · 15th April 2007, 10:36 AM

I agree with the diffrent leader when poss. The way I like to look at it and tell me if I am wrong is that when rigging something below you (as uncommon as it might be) greatins the chance of a break out of that lead section taking you with it. Looking at the stress factor and all. If you are below the rigging point and it breaks out you have a better chance at staying in you tie in point. Hope that makes some scence.
I do see Jim1nz' point also I guess it comes down to what the tree gives you and what you feel most assured doing.

jim1nz · 15th April 2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairfield

If you are below the rigging point and it breaks out you have a better chance at staying in you tie in point. Hope that makes some scence.
I do see Jim1nz' point also I guess it comes down to what the tree gives you and what you feel most assured doing.

My point is, the chance of your rigging system failing WITHOUT TAKING YOU WITH IT is very slim above or below, so if your rigging point is stronger to start with you are better off.

aussieaxeman · 16th April 2007, 01:06 AM

hi guys i do a lot of eucs down here so usually rig of a different point than my
life line but yes i agree if you have to rig of the same stem go above.

yooper · 18th April 2007, 10:50 PM

I was taught to always rig above my life line. I also always nautral crotch. I do somtimes stray away from what i was tought though. What a hard decision between natural croch and the beer choice!

Ekka · 18th April 2007, 10:59 PM

Real bad if ya got a crotch full of beer!

Hey, I heard somewhere once too that you're supposed to rig (install block) above your high point (lifeline).

Now, I don't but have tried it and it sucks.

It wasn't something we were taught here but I definitely read it somewhere after an accident. The assessors said the accident was attributed to the rigging point breaking out and taking the high point above it. Had the climber secured below most likely he would have been OK. Now this was about 4 years ago, so somewhere some-one is recommending this from an official source.

I'd like to know who/where etc?

Sean Freeman · 18th April 2007, 11:38 PM

Crickey, you'd have to think there was either decay missed around the rigging point, or well and truely overloaded the rigging to lead to that

, unless it was a t/d and they forgot to remove the TIP before cutting the block!!

TrevMcRev · 18th April 2007, 11:49 PM

I like my T.I.P above the rigging point. Keeps lines away from each other better i find. I see a lot more potential for things going wrong having stuff being lowered with lines swinging across the path of your climbing line. Your only really gonna break out your rigging point if ya getting carried away with size,dont understand shockloading or dont understand tree structure & defects.

fatkoala · 18th December 2007, 01:46 AM

I usually go above, going against what the teachers at Burnley ( Uni of Melb) taught us which was to always go below.

I only once ever seen the rigging point go and that was on a poplar and we knew it was probably going to go and didn't care as no damage could have done as the shed below was being demolished anyway, ( plus we were all in a silly mood), so I would say above except for snappy species willows, poplars Kauri pines etc.

Ekka · 18th December 2007, 12:45 PM

Interesting, why is Burnley teaching going below?

What was their reasoning?

JohN Dee · 18th December 2007, 01:05 PM

At RYDE we were taught to have our tie - in below the rigging point. I myself put my T.I.P above the rigging point at work but put my T.I.P was always below the rigging point as to the teachers request.

Their reasoning behind is the same theory, that in theory if the rigging point is going to break out, it will break out above your T.I.P. I guess from and OHS/paperwork point of view below the rigging point seems the best scenario.

TrevMcRev · 19th December 2007, 01:15 AM

Yeah great theory BUT....

Your rigging is always going to place greater loads on the anchor than a climber will.

So your rig point is up high on smaller diameter stuff and more likely to breakout.

Wheres it gonna fail?

The tree doesnt know where your T.I.P. is! It wont necessarily fail above it.
It will fail at the weakest point, wherever that may be.

Also a climber with a T.I.P too low will struggle to get around the canopy as safe & efficient as they should. Then wonder why they cant get far enough out on branches to cut where they should.

View Poll Results: My high point is always ....
Above the rigging point	17	48.57%
Below the rigging point	5	14.29%
I natural crotch all the time so it varies	12	34.29%
Who cares, where's the beer.	1	2.86%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

14th April 2007, 10:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,645	I voted above the rigging, but I have to complain about putting the beer option in there as you can only choose one...being dipsomanically challanged makes it very hard...no fair . Also i generally natural crotch so that does have a big impact too. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

15th April 2007, 02:38 AM	#4 (permalink)
jim1nz Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tauranga, New Zealand Posts: 296	Climbing point always above. But i always try to set my rigging point on a different stem/leader/branch than the one im tied into. "I have heard some say your tie in point should be above the rigging point as it helps you climb out further and the rigging point should be stronger." Ill agree with that. Above because; You need to be able to safely get out on the ends of branches to tip tie. It just makes getting around the tree so much easier. When you get to the top of the tree, its easier once you have tied in to set your rigging gear below your climbing system. The chances of the rigging point failing with your climbing line below are greater because you will be rigging of a smaller stem. Also on that point, the chances of your rigging point failing and taking your roping point with it are very high so whats the point of tying in below? __________________ SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE

15th April 2007, 10:36 AM	#6 (permalink)
Fairfield Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucks county Pa USA Posts: 72	I agree with the diffrent leader when poss. The way I like to look at it and tell me if I am wrong is that when rigging something below you (as uncommon as it might be) greatins the chance of a break out of that lead section taking you with it. Looking at the stress factor and all. If you are below the rigging point and it breaks out you have a better chance at staying in you tie in point. Hope that makes some scence. I do see Jim1nz' point also I guess it comes down to what the tree gives you and what you feel most assured doing. __________________ Hi yes you know me I am B.A.M.F nice to meet you

18th April 2007, 10:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	Real bad if ya got a crotch full of beer! Hey, I heard somewhere once too that you're supposed to rig (install block) above your high point (lifeline). Now, I don't but have tried it and it sucks. It wasn't something we were taught here but I definitely read it somewhere after an accident. The assessors said the accident was attributed to the rigging point breaking out and taking the high point above it. Had the climber secured below most likely he would have been OK. Now this was about 4 years ago, so somewhere some-one is recommending this from an official source. I'd like to know who/where etc? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

14th April 2007, 11:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
JayD Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 886	We choose above,but we also natural crotch, we try to choose what appears to be the strongest safest method,I mean it has to be a natural branch not epicormic regrowth..but you know what I mean.Also we try to keep the climbing ropes away from the lowering.

16th April 2007, 01:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
aussieaxeman I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: mooroopna Posts: 2	hi guys i do a lot of eucs down here so usually rig of a different point than my life line but yes i agree if you have to rig of the same stem go above.

18th April 2007, 10:50 PM	#9 (permalink)
yooper Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Upper Michigan U.S.A. Posts: 73	I was taught to always rig above my life line. I also always nautral crotch. I do somtimes stray away from what i was tought though. What a hard decision between natural croch and the beer choice!

18th April 2007, 11:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,645	Crickey, you'd have to think there was either decay missed around the rigging point, or well and truely overloaded the rigging to lead to that , unless it was a t/d and they forgot to remove the TIP before cutting the block!! __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

18th April 2007, 11:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
TrevMcRev Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 730	I like my T.I.P above the rigging point. Keeps lines away from each other better i find. I see a lot more potential for things going wrong having stuff being lowered with lines swinging across the path of your climbing line. Your only really gonna break out your rigging point if ya getting carried away with size,dont understand shockloading or dont understand tree structure & defects. __________________ Melbourne Arborist, Total Tree Care, Pruning, Tree and Stump Removal

18th December 2007, 01:46 AM	#13 (permalink)
fatkoala Sappling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mildura Posts: 27	Re: Is your high point above or below the rigging point? I usually go above, going against what the teachers at Burnley ( Uni of Melb) taught us which was to always go below. I only once ever seen the rigging point go and that was on a poplar and we knew it was probably going to go and didn't care as no damage could have done as the shed below was being demolished anyway, ( plus we were all in a silly mood), so I would say above except for snappy species willows, poplars Kauri pines etc.

18th December 2007, 12:45 PM	#14 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	Re: Is your high point above or below the rigging point? Interesting, why is Burnley teaching going below? What was their reasoning? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

18th December 2007, 01:05 PM	#15 (permalink)
JohN Dee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 728	Re: Is your high point above or below the rigging point? At RYDE we were taught to have our tie - in below the rigging point. I myself put my T.I.P above the rigging point at work but put my T.I.P was always below the rigging point as to the teachers request. Their reasoning behind is the same theory, that in theory if the rigging point is going to break out, it will break out above your T.I.P. I guess from and OHS/paperwork point of view below the rigging point seems the best scenario. __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue