Young street tree advice

JohN Dee · 2nd March 2010, 09:31 PM

Well walking home from the train station the other day I noticed that these water gums had been planted on the nature strip where they are finishing building off an apartment block.

Given the nature of the direct area I was walking through (along train tracks, near pools, deviant hang out spot) vandalism at an all time high, I thought I would give out some free advice to try and help ensure that these water gums get to mature nicely in their location.

Here is my letter below and the photos/diagrams:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letter

To whom it May concern:

Hi there, my name is John D and I am an Arborist that lives locally in Seven Hills (other side of Blacktown Pools to tell you the truth).
I was recently walking home and noticed that you had planted four Water Gums (Tristaniopsis laurina) on the nature strip. First off let me congratulate you on planting some excellent native trees suited for the life style they will have residing underneath the powerlines (aggressive trimming from power line companies).

The reason I’m writing you this letter is because of the ever-growing vandalism problem in the area (I was recently walking by prior to the tree planting and had noticed that the very front glass door of the building was also smashed in at one point).
Also note that the building next to yours had attempted to plant 3 young Jacaranda trees without any proper deterrent and all 3 did not survive, 2 no longer exist and the 3rd is dead due to being heaved back and forth.
If you wish for your trees to survive to the point that they are mature, strong enough to support themselves and add value to the building, then I would suggest a little more protection for them that is relatively peanuts in price.

My suggestion would be to place 4 wooden stakes (two or three metres in length (2 metres high 1 metre in the ground would be optimal) around each individual tree in the shape of a square and join them around all four sides with 3 rows (one high, one middle and one low) of canvas webbing tape. This will not guarantee physical protection on the young trees, but will more act as a deterrent to people passing by wanting to vandalise them. This method has been proven affective by many other council tree plantings where the trees have survived being young, small and fragile and developed into strong, mature, high value trees.
I have included a few diagrams displaying the concept.

If you have any other questions feel free to give me a call.
John D (Arborist)

Feel free to give me any tips on anything I should change in the letter I'm going to get it on its way in roughly 19 hours time...

Eric Frei · 2nd March 2010, 10:20 PM

Dang yobbos, good idea, low cost and simple.

I haven't given much thought to stuff like that but in one park that a developer planted mature specimens the hoons killed the lot, just busted and trashed them .... I reckon get those battery operated infrared little trail cameras and see what animals the council can catch.

Garry Brockley · 3rd March 2010, 06:14 AM

Excellent john i wonder if they will pay any attention. I say get a big battery and attach it to the hoons balls.

sueann · 3rd March 2010, 06:58 AM

Oh what is wrong with people that want to damage something as lovely as a tree! it makes me so mad! are their lives so damn boring and lacking in meaning that they have nothing else to do????

We planted 4 little pepper trees along our nature strip and some idiot pulled them all out and tossed them around. I re-planted them and they seem ok but I like that idea re the guards.

Jeff Darby · 3rd March 2010, 08:30 AM

Nice work, John, Good to see your passion is still strong and healthy..

JayD

Garry Brockley · 3rd March 2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sueann

Oh what is wrong with people that want to damage something as lovely as a tree! it makes me so mad! are their lives so damn boring and lacking in meaning that they have nothing else to do????

We planted 4 little pepper trees along our nature strip and some idiot pulled them all out and tossed them around. I re-planted them and they seem ok but I like that idea re the guards.

yeah sorry about that i was hoping you would plant some decent trees instead

Treemo · 18th June 2010, 05:43 PM

Sorry to bring back an old post but I just saw it in the 'Related' section.

John's suggestion is good, and it's funny, I tried the exact same thing approximately 6 months ago, except I had 3 Star Pickets and knotted canvas tie around the triangle, protecting a Xanthostemon.

I thought it was a great idea.

Till I came back to water it a week later, all star pickets were gone and the tree was snapped at the bottom third. Maybe the theft was for the star pickets and the snapping of the tree was a "that'll learn ya".

In my old home town of Coffs, most trees along this one road I saw were protected by large square, welded steel fences, approximately 30+, maybe even 50. Can't even fathom the cost.

What we find, if we use yellow stakes or spray painted wood, the vandals are like magpies to something shiny. If you use no stakes, the tree's chances are slightly higher. What I have determined is that some places, young trees have no chance, none at all. Wait a year, and hope that the kids that was doing it, have moved on. It's mostly about the types of pedestrian traffic.

Bowani Siam · 23rd June 2010, 05:21 PM

Yeah, seriously. What is the deal with people vandalising trees? parking meters I can understand..... (!)
On a smaller scale, we put 5,000 tubes in the ground last week, and within a day someone had come and selected about 15 of the best-lookin' ones for their garden. It wasn't hard to find them as they were planted ACROSS THE ROAD. Why bother?! Pretty funny.

Anyway John D, it's got a good idea. We staked the Angophoras with 4 stakes similar to your Picasso-inspired diagram and they seem to have been left alone (so far) Any kind of visual barrier can be a last minute deterrent.

Unfortunately no matter what kind of stake/tape defence system, it is no match for a pimply-faced teenager on a half a can of light beer. Those guys are pumped for mayhem!

Apocalypsse · 23rd June 2010, 08:15 PM

If people don't want the tree there or are just asshats then the tree will go, doesn't matter how much protection you put on it. We have just entered planting season and i'm hearing all the stories. Like in 1 court they planted 17 trees, not long after the guys left the boss gets a call from the council arborist saying all the trees have been ripped out. If people don't want the trees there they are gonna go.

dov · 24th June 2010, 10:45 AM

Vandals have small worlds and small minds. Small worlds because they only try to impress the small group of fellow non compos around them and small minds because they cannot see any further than that limited sphere.

Criminals in general are mentally retarded. Even the ones with a high IQ. You see, when most people were kids, they got into trouble, were disciplined (smacked, whatever,) learned their lesson and moved on to being at least half decent citizens. These vandals and most criminals never learned. They are retarded. When they knock a tree down they get a little swell of pride at their own puny power. When they run away instead of fighting they congratulate themselves on how clever they are. When they get caught, they think of themselves as victims of the police. They are, in short, selfish, immature little 3 year olds in adolescent of adult bodies. Quite retarded.

As they behave like small children, so they aught to be treated. Punishment needs to be quick. A few belts around the head from your friendly neighbourhood rozzer is a good start. For serial offenders, compulsory community service related to their delinquent behaviour, ie. cleaning graffiti, planting trees etc. Centrelink payments should be tied to their community service. No show, no dole or any other payments. Prison is to be avoided, as it usually just educates boys of this mindset to be more annoying and persistent criminals.

Apocalypsse · 24th June 2010, 03:46 PM

Its not always your common young vandal/criminal ripping trees out. A lot of the time its residents and elderly people.

Bowani Siam · 25th June 2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalypsse

Its not always your common young vandal/criminal ripping trees out. A lot of the time its residents and elderly people.

Hahaha. Especially IF said trees are planted in front of residences with certain views......

sueann · 25th June 2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galbee

yeah sorry about that i was hoping you would plant some decent trees instead

Decent trees? What's wrong with pepper trees?

Brent Ferris · 29th June 2010, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dov

Vandals have small worlds and small minds. Small worlds because they only try to impress the small group of fellow non compos around them and small minds because they cannot see any further than that limited sphere.

Criminals in general are mentally retarded. Even the ones with a high IQ. You see, when most people were kids, they got into trouble, were disciplined (smacked, whatever,) learned their lesson and moved on to being at least half decent citizens. These vandals and most criminals never learned. They are retarded. When they knock a tree down they get a little swell of pride at their own puny power. When they run away instead of fighting they congratulate themselves on how clever they are. When they get caught, they think of themselves as victims of the police. They are, in short, selfish, immature little 3 year olds in adolescent of adult bodies. Quite retarded.

As they behave like small children, so they aught to be treated. Punishment needs to be quick. A few belts around the head from your friendly neighbourhood rozzer is a good start. For serial offenders, compulsory community service related to their delinquent behaviour, ie. cleaning graffiti, planting trees etc. Centrelink payments should be tied to their community service. No show, no dole or any other payments. Prison is to be avoided, as it usually just educates boys of this mindset to be more annoying and persistent criminals.

I like Ekka's idea - install some cameras on nearby mature trees or poles and see what you can catch.

Maybe some plantings of thorny trees, or trees surrounded by thorny bushes might help.

Maybe even a snitch reward.

Eric Frei · 13th August 2010, 09:48 PM

Have a read of what these fools did up the Sunshine Coast.

Tree vandals go berserk | Noosa News | Local News in Noosa | Noosa News

Quote:

13th August 2010

Vandals have gone on a rampage, ripping out more than 200 newly planted trees in Tewantin's Heritage Park just one week after they were planted by Girl Guides and volunteers for National Tree Day.

Girl Guides, community groups, residents and school children gave up their time to plant 800 trees at a council funded planting session for National Tree Day.

Noosa and District Landcare spokeswoman Nadia Joyce said the vandalism was discovered the morning after a monthly working bee by the Heritage Park Group.

“Fifty trees were left neatly stacked near where they had been ripped out and 150 of the trees were just thrown into the bush and left to die,” Ms Joyce said.

“The whole thing is just so pointless; I can't condone theft, but I could understand it better than this.

“It is nothing more than senseless vandalism of the lowest kind. So many people gave up their time for National Tree Day and someone has basically taken a great community effort and simply destroyed it.

“Council bush care workers and volunteers have replanted the 50 plants that were found.”

Community Conservation Partnerships' team leader Dave Burrows said Heritage Park was a significant wildlife corridor.

“The site has an abundance of native flora and fauna and is a real asset to the community,” Mr Burrows said.

“Several keen residents and a local bushcare group regularly conduct weed management and restoration in the park through council's Community Nature Conservation Program.

“We chose Heritage Park as a location for the National Tree Day planting to encourage more people to visit the park and learn about the amazing wildlife and flora the park supports.

“We're obviously disappointed. The community does such a great job of helping conserve the coast's environment and it only takes a few incidents like this to make people feel they are wasting their time.”

Bowani Siam · 14th August 2010, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Have a read of what these fools did up the Sunshine Coast.

Tree vandals go berserk | Noosa News | Local News in Noosa | Noosa News

Wow - there are some awesome people around, aren't there? Bloody Coasties...

Apocalypsse · 15th August 2010, 12:45 PM

Vandals are everywhere. Rocked up to this street during the week, the heads of a dozen trees were broken off, they were planted only a week ago. You see it everywhere in planting season, trees broken, stakes removed, trees just taken.

Eric Frei · 15th August 2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by very_sarcastic

Wow - there are some awesome people around, aren't there? Bloody Coasties...

I think they were Victorians on holidays.

Brent Ferris · 15th August 2010, 03:28 PM

It is a pity. Hopefully the Girl Guides, community groups, residents and school children can learn that persistence pays as does vigilance and neighbourhood watches. A couple of cameras sensitive to infrared might help too.

In a park near to me, vandals came in one night, and stripped all the bark off the lower 5 feet of trunk of a Honey Locust. The tree is -- amazingly -- still alive. I was wondering about giving a shot of sugar as TreeWhisperer suggested.

I wish the vandals could be nabbed and in Noosa, supervised to replant all the trees destroyed (at their expense) and then charged with the responsibilty of keeping the trees alive until they reach maturity. Give them a feeling of importance, and having something worthwhile to do with their time.

Eric Frei · 15th August 2010, 04:15 PM

Can we have some pictures of that tree?

I deliberately ring barked two gums (could not use poison to kill due to grafted roots), chainsawed two rings around the trunk about 4" apart and knocked the bark out.

One tree died @ 1 year later the other lived. It grew streams of wood and bridged the gap here and there.

Some trees will live a while but I'd say 2 seasons they're dead for sure. Of course palms do not count as they cant be ring barked, they have a vascular system the entire diameter of the trunk.

Also the sugar water thing, you really need to read http://www.treeworld.info/f9/sugar-w...-soil-561.html.

Treemo · 15th August 2010, 04:34 PM

Particularly bad year for vandalism this one. Last school holidays were some of the worst I've seen.

Worst as in complete and utter destruction in some cases, methodically removing each branch and the top out of it etc.

derwoodii · 15th August 2010, 10:27 PM

I feel your pain. The fitting of deterrents guards simple or complex is one way. I have found that its the stakes or appearance of new large established trees that can attract unwanted attention. Planting good smallish trees without stakes or hard ware can find them left alone un noticed and over time they establish quietly without poor treatment.

dov · 16th August 2010, 12:48 AM

It's a shame the law is so funny about using razor wire near the ground...

Brent Ferris · 16th August 2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Can we have some pictures of that tree?

I deliberately ring barked two gums (could not use poison to kill due to grafted roots), chainsawed two rings around the trunk about 4" apart and knocked the bark out.

One tree died @ 1 year later the other lived. It grew streams of wood and bridged the gap here and there.

Some trees will live a while but I'd say 2 seasons they're dead for sure. Of course palms do not count as they cant be ring barked, they have a vascular system the entire diameter of the trunk.

Also the sugar water thing, you really need to read http://www.treeworld.info/f9/sugar-w...-soil-561.html.

Interesting sets of articles - essentially saying (if I understand correctly) that sugar enhances bacterial growth -- which enhances protozoal growth (predators) which enhances release of nitrogen which can be utilized by the tree roots and top. Sugars can also enhance mycorrhizal growth, and thus fungal growth, but only if you know what amount of sugar concentration is right for the tree species involved. Which I don't.
And sugar initially increases the osmotic potential of water in the soil creating a drought effect for the roots, since water tends to flow from low to high. Although this also assumes all water absorption is passive, and in some cases water absorption seems to be faster than what passive osmotic potential would allow.
As Treelore pointed out, trees appear to do better in fungally dominant areas, grasses in bacterially dominant. Must be able to get along, most parks have both. I always thought the grass did poorly under trees because of lack of light, but maybe has more to do with bacterial populations (or lack of) -- hard to visually test for.
The end result seems to be treat with sugar cautiously, only with private trees where risks are acceptable, know your soil conditions (soil web) ahead of time -- which is almost never known -- and don't expect miracles. IF they happen, it is great; if not, hopefully the tree will still live.

Will try to get some pics, Eric.

2nd March 2010, 10:20 PM	#2
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,996	Re: Young street tree advice Dang yobbos, good idea, low cost and simple. I haven't given much thought to stuff like that but in one park that a developer planted mature specimens the hoons killed the lot, just busted and trashed them .... I reckon get those battery operated infrared little trail cameras and see what animals the council can catch. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

3rd March 2010, 06:14 AM	#3
Garry Brockley Bayside Tree Care Brisbane Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,641	Re: Young street tree advice Excellent john i wonder if they will pay any attention. I say get a big battery and attach it to the hoons balls. __________________ My business:- Brisbane Bayside Tree Care

3rd March 2010, 06:58 AM	#4
sueann Former Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Australia Posts: 599	Re: Young street tree advice Oh what is wrong with people that want to damage something as lovely as a tree! it makes me so mad! are their lives so damn boring and lacking in meaning that they have nothing else to do???? We planted 4 little pepper trees along our nature strip and some idiot pulled them all out and tossed them around. I re-planted them and they seem ok but I like that idea re the guards.

3rd March 2010, 08:30 AM	#5
Jeff Darby Moderator - Previously known as JayD Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: TreeWorld, Sydney Australia Posts: 2,059	Re: Young street tree advice Nice work, John, Good to see your passion is still strong and healthy.. JayD __________________ Member: Australian Tree Association Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard ! Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others © Jeffrey J Darby 2011

18th June 2010, 05:43 PM	#7
Treemo Former Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Brisbane Posts: 44	Re: Young street tree advice Sorry to bring back an old post but I just saw it in the 'Related' section. John's suggestion is good, and it's funny, I tried the exact same thing approximately 6 months ago, except I had 3 Star Pickets and knotted canvas tie around the triangle, protecting a Xanthostemon. I thought it was a great idea. Till I came back to water it a week later, all star pickets were gone and the tree was snapped at the bottom third. Maybe the theft was for the star pickets and the snapping of the tree was a "that'll learn ya". In my old home town of Coffs, most trees along this one road I saw were protected by large square, welded steel fences, approximately 30+, maybe even 50. Can't even fathom the cost. What we find, if we use yellow stakes or spray painted wood, the vandals are like magpies to something shiny. If you use no stakes, the tree's chances are slightly higher. What I have determined is that some places, young trees have no chance, none at all. Wait a year, and hope that the kids that was doing it, have moved on. It's mostly about the types of pedestrian traffic.

23rd June 2010, 05:21 PM	#8
Bowani Siam Mature tree Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 320	Re: Young street tree advice Yeah, seriously. What is the deal with people vandalising trees? parking meters I can understand..... (!) On a smaller scale, we put 5,000 tubes in the ground last week, and within a day someone had come and selected about 15 of the best-lookin' ones for their garden. It wasn't hard to find them as they were planted ACROSS THE ROAD. Why bother?! Pretty funny. Anyway John D, it's got a good idea. We staked the Angophoras with 4 stakes similar to your Picasso-inspired diagram and they seem to have been left alone (so far) Any kind of visual barrier can be a last minute deterrent. Unfortunately no matter what kind of stake/tape defence system, it is no match for a pimply-faced teenager on a half a can of light beer. Those guys are pumped for mayhem!

23rd June 2010, 08:15 PM	#9
Apocalypsse Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,152	Re: Young street tree advice If people don't want the tree there or are just asshats then the tree will go, doesn't matter how much protection you put on it. We have just entered planting season and i'm hearing all the stories. Like in 1 court they planted 17 trees, not long after the guys left the boss gets a call from the council arborist saying all the trees have been ripped out. If people don't want the trees there they are gonna go.

24th June 2010, 10:45 AM	#10
dov Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 649	Re: Young street tree advice Vandals have small worlds and small minds. Small worlds because they only try to impress the small group of fellow non compos around them and small minds because they cannot see any further than that limited sphere. Criminals in general are mentally retarded. Even the ones with a high IQ. You see, when most people were kids, they got into trouble, were disciplined (smacked, whatever,) learned their lesson and moved on to being at least half decent citizens. These vandals and most criminals never learned. They are retarded. When they knock a tree down they get a little swell of pride at their own puny power. When they run away instead of fighting they congratulate themselves on how clever they are. When they get caught, they think of themselves as victims of the police. They are, in short, selfish, immature little 3 year olds in adolescent of adult bodies. Quite retarded. As they behave like small children, so they aught to be treated. Punishment needs to be quick. A few belts around the head from your friendly neighbourhood rozzer is a good start. For serial offenders, compulsory community service related to their delinquent behaviour, ie. cleaning graffiti, planting trees etc. Centrelink payments should be tied to their community service. No show, no dole or any other payments. Prison is to be avoided, as it usually just educates boys of this mindset to be more annoying and persistent criminals.

24th June 2010, 03:46 PM	#11
Apocalypsse Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,152	Re: Young street tree advice Its not always your common young vandal/criminal ripping trees out. A lot of the time its residents and elderly people.

15th August 2010, 12:45 PM	#17
Apocalypsse Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,152	Re: Young street tree advice Vandals are everywhere. Rocked up to this street during the week, the heads of a dozen trees were broken off, they were planted only a week ago. You see it everywhere in planting season, trees broken, stakes removed, trees just taken.

15th August 2010, 03:28 PM	#19
Brent Ferris Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,557	Re: Young street tree advice It is a pity. Hopefully the Girl Guides, community groups, residents and school children can learn that persistence pays as does vigilance and neighbourhood watches. A couple of cameras sensitive to infrared might help too. In a park near to me, vandals came in one night, and stripped all the bark off the lower 5 feet of trunk of a Honey Locust. The tree is -- amazingly -- still alive. I was wondering about giving a shot of sugar as TreeWhisperer suggested. I wish the vandals could be nabbed and in Noosa, supervised to replant all the trees destroyed (at their expense) and then charged with the responsibilty of keeping the trees alive until they reach maturity. Give them a feeling of importance, and having something worthwhile to do with their time.

15th August 2010, 04:15 PM	#20
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,996	Re: Young street tree advice Can we have some pictures of that tree? I deliberately ring barked two gums (could not use poison to kill due to grafted roots), chainsawed two rings around the trunk about 4" apart and knocked the bark out. One tree died @ 1 year later the other lived. It grew streams of wood and bridged the gap here and there. Some trees will live a while but I'd say 2 seasons they're dead for sure. Of course palms do not count as they cant be ring barked, they have a vascular system the entire diameter of the trunk. Also the sugar water thing, you really need to read http://www.treeworld.info/f9/sugar-w...-soil-561.html. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

15th August 2010, 04:34 PM	#21
Treemo Former Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Brisbane Posts: 44	Re: Young street tree advice Particularly bad year for vandalism this one. Last school holidays were some of the worst I've seen. Worst as in complete and utter destruction in some cases, methodically removing each branch and the top out of it etc.

15th August 2010, 10:27 PM	#22
derwoodii Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Melbourne Posts: 406	Re: Young street tree advice I feel your pain. The fitting of deterrents guards simple or complex is one way. I have found that its the stakes or appearance of new large established trees that can attract unwanted attention. Planting good smallish trees without stakes or hard ware can find them left alone un noticed and over time they establish quietly without poor treatment.

16th August 2010, 12:48 AM	#23
dov Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 649	Re: Young street tree advice It's a shame the law is so funny about using razor wire near the ground...

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