YOU rate this hazard - tree - fork

Ekka · 31st October 2007, 10:12 PM

Prior to voting you may like to familiarize yourself with this thread.

V and U shaped Crotch Strengths, included bark| codominant stems etc especially see the 1st post page 2

This is a mature iron bark close to 100' tall.

Pay attention to the first fork.

playfordtree · 31st October 2007, 11:02 PM

Bloody ironbarks
we have them all over down here, lots of them are street trees planted by council.
They fail more than the english cricket team

I was at a job with the tree company i first worked for, it was a bit of a windy day.
We had the truck&chipper parked curbside, we were dragging brush from the customers backyard to the street when we heard almighty crack.
A leader probably 10 metres long broke off and fell right at the back of the feed tray, across the footpath (sidewalk for you septics) and half way across front yard

Must have weighed few hundred kilos
Another 30 seconds one of us would have been standing at feed tray or walking to chipper it probably would have killed us.
man it was a scary moment

Ekka · 31st October 2007, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by playfordtree

They fail more than the english cricket team

Crikey!!!

That is BAD.

I'm making a video of a real ugly one I felled today, just downloading customer's footage.

a_lopa · 1st November 2007, 02:33 AM

Very likely...within 18months

TrevMcRev · 1st November 2007, 04:31 AM

I wanted to tick "insurance will cover it" coz i know how much you like that one ekka! I rate it highly likely. The union is not the worrst it could be but species traits, if it is sideroxylon, Red Ironbark, as i know down here, they are very common to fail at co-dom stem unions.

If the target rating is high, remove.

If tree retention is highly valued, aerial inspection with view to assessing suitability for cable bracing & possible canopy reduction.

Just quoted a failed one of this species the other day

I'll put up pics 2moro if you want an example for the client ekka.

Ekka · 1st November 2007, 06:24 AM

Yeah put them up.

I'll be doing a TD on this one, also has cavity and excavator basal damage.

Gonna remove/reduce some then fell somewhere ... is a bad one. That crack is opening up, like a jigsaw puzzle being pulled apart.

Those iron barks seem to have lots of bad inclusions ... goes with the species I think.

Targets everywhere really, can easily make the house, street wires, service drop etc.

TreeCo · 1st November 2007, 07:04 AM

That tree is a removal!

newguy18 · 1st November 2007, 09:28 AM

We don't agree on much treeco but I agree with you on that tree.

Roller · 1st November 2007, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeCo

That tree is a removal!

or maybe a pollard...

but anyhow I agree it is a bad fork imo

jim1nz · 1st November 2007, 10:42 AM

Depends how much they want to keep the tree, or loose their power haha. Need a pic of both sides, could be saved, i said could not should. How old ya reckon it is?

Sean Freeman · 1st November 2007, 01:05 PM

Every tree will have defects, every tree will fail eventually, all comes down to target and in the opinion of the Arborist the likelihood or probability of failure, (and the sie of the part you think is most likely to fail first)

Targets in this pic seem to be the supply line and the road, also possibly the house.

Tend to agree with jim1nz and trev if the owner wanted to spend a large amount of resource on the tree some actions could be taken to reduce both the likelihood and the consequences of its failure, but whether such expenditure would be justified compared to establishing a replacement tree more suited to the location....well that would be down to the owner.

The options I would be putting front and centre to the client would be removal with replacement, assuming thats Brissy plenty of great small-medium sized natives that are grossly underplanted in the urban forest would suit that spot.

Ekka · 1st November 2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim1nz

Need a pic of both sides, could be saved, i said could not should. How old ya reckon it is?

Ask and you'll receive ... it is quite pronounced (elephant ear).

I estimate age as 75 to 100 years.

jim1nz · 1st November 2007, 01:33 PM

Ah i see. Yea that much reaction growth is not always a good thing is it.

You know, i like to stick up for trees sometimes, its lived for 75 to 100 years and has not failed. Now, because we have recognised there is a higher chance of the tree failing all of a sudden it has to be cut down, i have to laugh in the irony of it really. Trees must fit into our environment, thats our job, making them fit into an enviornment that has been forced upon them. Woow im starting to sound like a tree hugger!

I most certinally agree with you guys in this case though. If it wasnt for that massive cut/decay i may have second thoughts.

Cheers Ekka

Ekka · 1st November 2007, 01:56 PM

These trees were sclerophyll forest and remain after development.

It's also the same property where I felled this tree.

Felling dodgey big ironbark | solo felling.

After developers clear native forest they leave a few trees. Many of the trees in these situations never look good as single specimens. The forest in it's entirety has beauty and trees are sheltered in large groups. The density tends to hide the defects. Now what we have is large, damaged and somewhat isolated fringe trees.

The environment is now more hostile, less insulation from the elements, more competition from turf, hard surfaces like concrete, water table changes, rhizosphere changes etc etc ... trees often commence their decline and become more prone to storm damage.

Nature cared for and pruned in it's own way the forest, however now debri, leaf litter and like is all vacuumed up with every lawn mow, and heaven forbid we wont tolerate mother nature pruning her urban forest with such recklessness and poor cutting.

These trees would rarely if ever be planted by anyone in an urban setting, they are most inappropriate and much better selections are out there.

As I stood on this guys property with him he started to see many issues with many trees. Once his eye was trained by me he got a little excited ... what about these over here, look at that etc etc ... I told him to stop looking or there'd be none left. You look at them from a location perspective first, can they do damage if they fail? Then decide your works.

Developers should leave groups of trees, far enough away from targets to not be a problem, and leave the area around them alone.

treeseer · 2nd November 2007, 04:21 AM

Before the defect can be judged, it must be measured. How bad is that decay? Is the tree compartmentalizing it? If so and that is the only defect, then cable it. You all have heard of cabling, right?

C A B L E for those Chicken Little

devotees who haven't, and still think that every hazard should be removed.

View Poll Results: Rate the probability of failure
No chance of failure, get another beer and back to the footy	0	0%
Low chance of failure, just dont park under it	0	0%
Moderate chance of failure, probably fall toward the neibs anyway	1	2.78%
High chance of failure, should get around to it some day	11	30.56%
Extremely likely to fail, in fact, should have failed by now!	23	63.89%
Who cares, insurance will cover it! She'll be right	1	2.78%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

31st October 2007, 11:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 337	Re: YOU rate this hazard - tree - fork Bloody ironbarks we have them all over down here, lots of them are street trees planted by council. They fail more than the english cricket team I was at a job with the tree company i first worked for, it was a bit of a windy day. We had the truck&chipper parked curbside, we were dragging brush from the customers backyard to the street when we heard almighty crack. A leader probably 10 metres long broke off and fell right at the back of the feed tray, across the footpath (sidewalk for you septics) and half way across front yard Must have weighed few hundred kilos Another 30 seconds one of us would have been standing at feed tray or walking to chipper it probably would have killed us. man it was a scary moment

1st November 2007, 02:33 AM	#4 (permalink)
a_lopa Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Drouin Posts: 866	Re: YOU rate this hazard - tree - fork Very likely...within 18months __________________ Free Tree Industry Link Directory Drouin tree lopping, land clearing and stump removals

1st November 2007, 04:31 AM	#5 (permalink)
TrevMcRev Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 725	Re: YOU rate this hazard - tree - fork I wanted to tick "insurance will cover it" coz i know how much you like that one ekka! I rate it highly likely. The union is not the worrst it could be but species traits, if it is sideroxylon, Red Ironbark, as i know down here, they are very common to fail at co-dom stem unions. If the target rating is high, remove. If tree retention is highly valued, aerial inspection with view to assessing suitability for cable bracing & possible canopy reduction. Just quoted a failed one of this species the other day I'll put up pics 2moro if you want an example for the client ekka. __________________ Melbourne Arborist, Total Tree Care, Pruning, Tree and Stump Removal

1st November 2007, 06:24 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,815	Re: YOU rate this hazard - tree - fork Yeah put them up. I'll be doing a TD on this one, also has cavity and excavator basal damage. Gonna remove/reduce some then fell somewhere ... is a bad one. That crack is opening up, like a jigsaw puzzle being pulled apart. Those iron barks seem to have lots of bad inclusions ... goes with the species I think. Targets everywhere really, can easily make the house, street wires, service drop etc. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

1st November 2007, 07:04 AM	#7 (permalink)
TreeCo Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 262	Re: YOU rate this hazard - tree - fork That tree is a removal!

1st November 2007, 09:28 AM	#8 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,606	Re: YOU rate this hazard - tree - fork We don't agree on much treeco but I agree with you on that tree. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

1st November 2007, 10:42 AM	#10 (permalink)
jim1nz Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tauranga, New Zealand Posts: 296	Re: YOU rate this hazard - tree - fork Depends how much they want to keep the tree, or loose their power haha. Need a pic of both sides, could be saved, i said could not should. How old ya reckon it is? __________________ SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE

1st November 2007, 01:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,638	Re: YOU rate this hazard - tree - fork Every tree will have defects, every tree will fail eventually, all comes down to target and in the opinion of the Arborist the likelihood or probability of failure, (and the sie of the part you think is most likely to fail first) Targets in this pic seem to be the supply line and the road, also possibly the house. Tend to agree with jim1nz and trev if the owner wanted to spend a large amount of resource on the tree some actions could be taken to reduce both the likelihood and the consequences of its failure, but whether such expenditure would be justified compared to establishing a replacement tree more suited to the location....well that would be down to the owner. The options I would be putting front and centre to the client would be removal with replacement, assuming thats Brissy plenty of great small-medium sized natives that are grossly underplanted in the urban forest would suit that spot. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

1st November 2007, 01:33 PM	#13 (permalink)
jim1nz Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tauranga, New Zealand Posts: 296	Re: YOU rate this hazard - tree - fork Ah i see. Yea that much reaction growth is not always a good thing is it. You know, i like to stick up for trees sometimes, its lived for 75 to 100 years and has not failed. Now, because we have recognised there is a higher chance of the tree failing all of a sudden it has to be cut down, i have to laugh in the irony of it really. Trees must fit into our environment, thats our job, making them fit into an enviornment that has been forced upon them. Woow im starting to sound like a tree hugger! I most certinally agree with you guys in this case though. If it wasnt for that massive cut/decay i may have second thoughts. Cheers Ekka __________________ SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE

1st November 2007, 01:56 PM	#14 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,815	Re: YOU rate this hazard - tree - fork These trees were sclerophyll forest and remain after development. It's also the same property where I felled this tree. Felling dodgey big ironbark \| solo felling. After developers clear native forest they leave a few trees. Many of the trees in these situations never look good as single specimens. The forest in it's entirety has beauty and trees are sheltered in large groups. The density tends to hide the defects. Now what we have is large, damaged and somewhat isolated fringe trees. The environment is now more hostile, less insulation from the elements, more competition from turf, hard surfaces like concrete, water table changes, rhizosphere changes etc etc ... trees often commence their decline and become more prone to storm damage. Nature cared for and pruned in it's own way the forest, however now debri, leaf litter and like is all vacuumed up with every lawn mow, and heaven forbid we wont tolerate mother nature pruning her urban forest with such recklessness and poor cutting. These trees would rarely if ever be planted by anyone in an urban setting, they are most inappropriate and much better selections are out there. As I stood on this guys property with him he started to see many issues with many trees. Once his eye was trained by me he got a little excited ... what about these over here, look at that etc etc ... I told him to stop looking or there'd be none left. You look at them from a location perspective first, can they do damage if they fail? Then decide your works. Developers should leave groups of trees, far enough away from targets to not be a problem, and leave the area around them alone. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

2nd November 2007, 04:21 AM	#15 (permalink)
treeseer Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SE USA Posts: 521	Re: YOU rate this hazard - tree - fork Before the defect can be judged, it must be measured. How bad is that decay? Is the tree compartmentalizing it? If so and that is the only defect, then cable it. You all have heard of cabling, right? C A B L E for those Chicken Little devotees who haven't, and still think that every hazard should be removed. __________________ Guy Meilleur \| Forensic Arborist \| Better Tree Care