When you should really be a spectator

NeTree · 21st December 2009, 06:51 PM

I spend about half of my time doing just that, actually; contract timber falling by hand. We do a lot of properties the big machines just can't get into (too hilly, too wet, etc.), and we leave the place less tore up when we're done. Small skidding equipment, chainsaws instead of big tracked feller-bunchers... now that's pretty green, for logging.

The best part is being able to experiment with different methods, and practice multiple techniques.. hone them to a fine art... and then bring that back to the residential setting.

Being able to predict a wreck is just as important a skill.

bobdoesit · 21st December 2009, 08:14 PM

Hey guy,s. Check out the pic,s I posted last year.
I felled 52 of them, most of them had bad rot, and or decay or just weak unions. They were not as big as the triple stem one in the video though.

And hey, climb safe out there.
Rob.

Sunraysia Tree Solutions · 24th December 2009, 07:43 PM

Good on Gerry for posting, it. I havent done big cypress for ages since I moved to mildura and its a good reminder if nothing else about how dangerous triple leaders can be

kel · 29th December 2009, 02:51 PM

I think we're barking up the wrong tree for where the problem is and hence missing the chance to learn from someone elses "mistake". About 35 sec in jerry says they have a heavy duty line in the single tree. A minute later as he is about to bolt he says that the tension on the rope is "too much" and pulls the single over by the roots. Happens when the groundie gets excited and adds abit more tension "just to be sure ". (Shouldn't/needn't[is that a word?] have any tension at that time as the single didn't have a scaff in it yet). I've got an "indicator" I put in line when pulling with the truck so groundie knows how much tension is on the rope and tree. Works well.

Eric Frei · 29th December 2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kel

I think we're barking up the wrong tree for where the problem is

I dont think so, I think it's covered pretty well. He had a tensioned line to hold the triple leadered tree in a stall position until he let the single go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

What do you expect when the single tree didn't have a notch or back cut and the triple leadered tree went premature. There would have been 3 potential scenarios.

1/ The attachment rope snap and the single tree remain.
2/ The rope hold up the failing/falling triple leadered tree
3/ The single tree break or heave over.

Seems to me this guy made a huge stuff up.

I know what he was doing was preparing the triple leadered tree for felling, and then going to the single tree last and felling that one using it as a trigger.

If the triple leadered tree wasn't cut deep enough to go then a potential stall would occur if the single tree were notched and back cut.

The real issue is cutting beneath 3 co-dominant unions like that is always risky, better to try to cut above it and fell the leaders individually if possible. Now Berenek said, "due to massive rot in the unions of the triple it begins coming apart before it can be properly cut up" .... this is not the case. Often regardless of that the unions have included bark .... what holds them to the stump is the wood at the base of each leader which he has now cut off (the wood that's removed doing the back cut is what holds the co-dominant section not the wood that's at it's side).

Often with trees like that I tie the leaders together, cinch it all up to hold the tree together. Had that tree been tied up and cinched it wouldn't have split apart.

Live and learn. Sure you could get an excavator or tower etc, but you have them leaning in the right direction, tied together, seems a no brainer however the triple codominants are serious warning bells.

rbtree · 29th December 2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

I dont think so, I think it's covered pretty well. He had a tensioned line to hold the triple leadered tree in a stall position until he let the single go.

Now Berenek said, "due to massive rot in the unions of the triple it begins coming apart before it can be properly cut up" .... this is not the case.

Oh??? You're only part right in what you said after that...there was a butt load of rot.

Might wanna go back and watch again, Eric. Gerry didn't touch the single. kel was right, there was too much tension on it, either from the triple going over, or perhaps the helper pulling too much with a truck. The single failed and helped the triple to go over, splitting apart as it did...but in the desired direction, pretty much.

Nowhere near the "stuff up" that you and lopa are on about.

Gerry has so much more skill and experience than you or most of us that it isn't even funny. And he has said that he has had way more sketchy situations, many times.

You might want to show some respect to someone who has earned it....and this incident, especially as he shared it on the internet, should have done nothing to reduce that respect.

I think, that the triple had favor in the desired felling direction. Mayby why he didn't secure a line around all three stems, as should have been done....That's the only real mistake that I see...and Gerry became aware that things might go wrong when he saw the wood integrity was worse than he thought. Also, the lead that stayed standing was the furthest away from Gerry's stance--before he beat feet outta Dodge....

Drouin Tree Service · 29th December 2009, 06:29 PM

Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry

Eric Frei · 29th December 2009, 06:46 PM

LOL, when you live on a diet of Gerry what more do expect.

Butt load of INCOMPETENCE.

Seems a few have comprehension problems, re-read my post.

rbtree · 30th December 2009, 01:24 PM

Don't think so, Eric.. I read quite well...

So, did you just call me and Gerry incompetent?

If so, you best think twice about that, bub!

rbtree · 30th December 2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_lopa

Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry

rbtree · 30th December 2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbtree

Oh??? You're only part right in what you said after that...there was a butt load of rot.

Might wanna go back and watch again, Eric. Gerry didn't touch the single. kel was right, there was too much tension on it, either from the triple going over, or perhaps the helper pulling too much with a truck. The single failed and helped the triple to go over, splitting apart as it did...but in the desired direction, pretty much.

Nowhere near the "stuff up" that you and lopa are on about.

Gerry has so much more skill and experience than you or most of us that it isn't even funny. And he has said that he has had way more sketchy situations, many times.

You might want to show some respect to someone who has earned it....and this incident, especially as he shared it on the internet, should have done nothing to reduce that respect.

I think, that the triple had favor in the desired felling direction. Mayby why he didn't secure a line around all three stems, as should have been done....That's the only real mistake that I see...and Gerry became aware that things might go wrong when he saw the wood integrity was worse than he thought. Also, the lead that stayed standing was the furthest away from Gerry's stance--before he beat feet outta Dodge....

So, who the ???? edited this into my post.....??

I know i say his name alot but it sounds nice. <this has been removed and rectified .... Admin>

I'm about done with this joke of a board.....

Eric Frei · 30th December 2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbtree

Don't think so, Eric.. I read quite well...

So, did you just call me and Gerry incompetent?

If so, you best think twice about that, bub!

Whatever. Facts are just that, no matter what shine you put on them.

Tell me then geniuses, he evaluated rot when notching, so why continue as per the norm?

Answer is ....

NeTree · 30th December 2009, 01:42 PM

Wow. Back to this childishness?

Eric Frei · 30th December 2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbtree

So, who the ???? edited this into my post.....??

I know i say his name alot but it sounds nice. <this has been removed and rectified .... Admin>

I'm about done with this joke of a board.....

After checking logs (as no edit footprint left) validation of your accusation showed it had been entered.

This was taken seriously and acted upon immediately, it is also the first incident where a footprint wasn't left so procedures have been put into place to prevent that occurring again.

This board is far from a joke, from day one part of the mission of TreeWorld was to sort shit from clay. Some people have issues with that and prefer to hang onto ideologies that aren't accurate.

When things go bum up and people are injured or dead from expert witnesses and coroners expect diagnosis. Expect to see things analysed and questioned, what were the warning signs etc.

Here in this thread a guy got killed on the job. He was 21' feet away from the stump of the tree on a 45 degree angle and throwback got him, dead. Like it or not there's an investigation, people (other than GerryB) make assessments and recommendations.

Here we see GerryB with a huge cock up, like it or not I consider it my job here to sort shit from clay and show the errors (where I can), thankfully I don't have to explain it to his family if he copped it.

As with the throwback death mentioned above, there were ways to reduce the hazard in this case too, ignored. If you think that's a joke then you're most welcome to leave and go to where they sing praises for foolish acts.

21st December 2009, 06:51 PM	#31
NeTree Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 69	Re: When you should really be a spectator I spend about half of my time doing just that, actually; contract timber falling by hand. We do a lot of properties the big machines just can't get into (too hilly, too wet, etc.), and we leave the place less tore up when we're done. Small skidding equipment, chainsaws instead of big tracked feller-bunchers... now that's pretty green, for logging. The best part is being able to experiment with different methods, and practice multiple techniques.. hone them to a fine art... and then bring that back to the residential setting. Being able to predict a wreck is just as important a skill. __________________ Yours, Erik www.netree.org

21st December 2009, 08:14 PM	#32
bobdoesit Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: England (North West) Posts: 105	Re: When you should really be a spectator Hey guy,s. Check out the pic,s I posted last year. I felled 52 of them, most of them had bad rot, and or decay or just weak unions. They were not as big as the triple stem one in the video though. And hey, climb safe out there. Rob.

24th December 2009, 07:43 PM	#33
Sunraysia Tree Solutions Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mildura Posts: 117	Re: When you should really be a spectator Good on Gerry for posting, it. I havent done big cypress for ages since I moved to mildura and its a good reminder if nothing else about how dangerous triple leaders can be

29th December 2009, 02:51 PM	#34
kel Sappling Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: sw brisbane Posts: 47	Re: When you should really be a spectator I think we're barking up the wrong tree for where the problem is and hence missing the chance to learn from someone elses "mistake". About 35 sec in jerry says they have a heavy duty line in the single tree. A minute later as he is about to bolt he says that the tension on the rope is "too much" and pulls the single over by the roots. Happens when the groundie gets excited and adds abit more tension "just to be sure ". (Shouldn't/needn't[is that a word?] have any tension at that time as the single didn't have a scaff in it yet). I've got an "indicator" I put in line when pulling with the truck so groundie knows how much tension is on the rope and tree. Works well.

29th December 2009, 06:29 PM	#37
Drouin Tree Service Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,728	Re: When you should really be a spectator Gerry Gerry Gerry Gerry __________________ Drouin Tree Services \| Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland \| Landclearing Melbourne

29th December 2009, 06:46 PM	#38
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,996	Re: When you should really be a spectator LOL, when you live on a diet of Gerry what more do expect. Butt load of INCOMPETENCE. Seems a few have comprehension problems, re-read my post. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

30th December 2009, 01:24 PM	#39
rbtree Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle, Wa. US of Eh Posts: 403	Re: When you should really be a spectator Don't think so, Eric.. I read quite well... So, did you just call me and Gerry incompetent? If so, you best think twice about that, bub!

30th December 2009, 01:42 PM	#43
NeTree Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 69	Re: When you should really be a spectator Wow. Back to this childishness? __________________ Yours, Erik www.netree.org

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