What - how would you prune this, if at all? Crown restoration of lopped poinciana

Ekka · 29th June 2007, 07:05 PM

This poinciana had a severe lopping (topping) by some high caliber hack many moons ago. Consequently it has a canopy that consists of regrowth (epicormics) and some tight knuckles.

I am doing a total crown restoration prune soon, tedious and extensive, but hey, I'm good at it. However for the exercise I spotted this one in particular and thought it would be a great example to discuss.

For those of you not familiar with the species it is a poor compartmentalizer, decays easily, the tree is mature however can grow another 50% larger if given good TLC.

Sean Freeman · 29th June 2007, 07:22 PM

Well before we play with MS Paint lets define terms for everyone so we are all talking about similar if not the same things.

Restoration of the crown after lopping: Attempting to improve the remaining branch structure
.....with recent lopping cuts and numerous small epicormic shoots it is first the selection of which of those shoots stand the best chance in your opinion of developing reasonably strong attachment to the main branch/limb and which will in time grow back into something approximating the original form.
......with older more established epicormics from several years ago much of the initial selection has been done by the tree...not always to the benefit of regaining form or stability! (the case in point with your circled double branch) Selective subordination of the less desirable of the two branches would be my prescription here, and this might well take 2/3 yrs to complete, perhaps more.

We always have to keep in mind that just as with storm damaged trees it may not be possible to restore the tree to anything like its normal form. Lopped trees can be very dangerous to climb and work in, even experienced climbers have to allow for reductions in the strengths in unions that are very hard to predict.

We also have to accept that unless you have an exceptional client with both a strong love and understanding of their tree, the time frames realy required to undertake this kind of work may not be acceptable to them......very long hours of counselling required in this area of arb work, and even then it can be very frustrating to be hamstrung by the demands of the tree owner.

Bermy · 1st July 2007, 04:31 AM

In the second picture is that a fungal bracket about halfway up the left branch?

There are several things going on in that picture. The large wound from a branch removal below both of them, staining coming from that one and below the union in question, leads to ????. And a partially callused cut on the left branch! And included bark and a weak union!

I'd probe the decay to see how extensive it is below those branches, check the target area underneath (sidewalk is pretty close)
At the least I'd reduce the end weight on both of them, and monitor for changes, at worst I'd cut the whole damn thing off!!! How would that affect the balance and appearance of the tree?

As an aside:
I just took down a huge poinciana last week, I was absolutely amazed at the compartmentalization that had taken place given their propensity to rot.
The tree was prob 30' with a huge spread, it had been badly topped about 10-15 years ago and had massive knuckles where it regrew. When I cut below the knuckles the wood was clean, no rot or very, very little!! Also there was an old cut with a classic teardown on one side, it had callused on the edges and rotted in the middle. I cut it off to get to the main diameter of the trunk, take a look at the before and after pic, a classic example of branch cone rot compartmentalized from the trunk tissue.
Sorry, got to go, I'll post pictures later.

mdvaden · 1st July 2007, 08:08 PM

That's one I'd rather cable rather than remove.

I was talking to lady about several trees in her yard today - miniature versions of your photo example.

One will be cabled, a few will be removed.

Ekka · 5th July 2007, 01:41 AM

Well

This is what I did and why.

The right hand piece was all stubbed ends, the previous "lopper" cut as the crow flies following the kerbing around the corner. You see, this was another one where the council asked the customer to clear the road and footpath. The right hand one also had more canopy above it which would fill in the hole.

The left hand one was higher and had no canopy above it to fill in the hole, had reduction points as it wasn't lopped off. So I reduced the left hand and removed the right hand one. They were really hard pushing into each other and the cut was tough. Very hard to get the right angle, in fact I cut it 3 times trying to get the best without cutting into the remaining branch.

In order the pics are over all view.

Close up on the cut.

Cut off piece.

Also, annual recalls is what I suggested for the customer, we'll see how that's going in a year.

Ekka · 5th July 2007, 02:19 AM

Here's some over all shots of the whole job.

Before and after shots in order, only lighting played the difference. Some of the big swollen knuckles had like 7 leaders emanating, I removed, reduced etc ... clearance provided for road, footpath, roof, service drop etc, all hunky dory.

treestyle · 5th July 2007, 03:31 AM

Tight union. you did well not to cut into the other branch.

TREE-SURFER · 5th July 2007, 05:25 AM

Great job Ekka.

Bermy · 5th July 2007, 07:35 AM

Nice...

How do you feel about that one really long branch in the second picture, the one that appears to be heading over the roof (probably just perspective) what condition is the union to the main trunk, do you feel there is excessive end weight given its length?
I am interested as I get quite a few poincianas to work on, and those loooong branches sometimes give me pause for thought.

I have attached the pics of the old poinciana wound with branch tissue decay, I was amazed at how tight the internal decay column was.
This tree had to come down due to long term issues with the roof and water tank, and they are going to be adding onto the house, construction damage etc. However I still feel sad that such a large tree had to go.

Ekka · 5th July 2007, 02:04 PM

Here's a closer up of that branch.

It comes off a very strong good natural union, 100% rip snorter that one. You'll also notice plenty of weight off the end and stubs cleared off. That's one of the better ones.

The second pic shows one of the knuckles before, and the third shows 3 leaders removed.

The remaining leaders were shortened, one dramatically as it had a target cut to go for only 3' away which means in another year or two that's come off, most likely die being shaded out in a few years anyway.

JayD · 5th July 2007, 02:48 PM

Good job mate,looks sweet.

treestyle · 5th July 2007, 11:32 PM

you feel safe tying into the tips of those epi's?

JohN Dee · 6th July 2007, 01:55 AM

Great job Ekka, nice work.

What kind of climbing system did you install for the trim? For my trims I usually use two tie in points for good work positioning.

Ekka · 6th July 2007, 02:19 AM

That one wasn't tall at all, I just used my lanyard and normal rope but you change over limbs everywhere all the time ... not one central high point. The branches were big and strong just dont be crazy.

You got big branches to stand on. Then I also had my trusty Wolf Garten saw. I have the loppers which will cut say up to 30mm dia no worries on poinciana and the saw.

I could also get some from the ground with HT75.

http://www.atraes.com.au/Shop/index....BED585ED3EB%7D

29th June 2007, 07:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,645	Well before we play with MS Paint lets define terms for everyone so we are all talking about similar if not the same things. Restoration of the crown after lopping: Attempting to improve the remaining branch structure .....with recent lopping cuts and numerous small epicormic shoots it is first the selection of which of those shoots stand the best chance in your opinion of developing reasonably strong attachment to the main branch/limb and which will in time grow back into something approximating the original form. ......with older more established epicormics from several years ago much of the initial selection has been done by the tree...not always to the benefit of regaining form or stability! (the case in point with your circled double branch) Selective subordination of the less desirable of the two branches would be my prescription here, and this might well take 2/3 yrs to complete, perhaps more. We always have to keep in mind that just as with storm damaged trees it may not be possible to restore the tree to anything like its normal form. Lopped trees can be very dangerous to climb and work in, even experienced climbers have to allow for reductions in the strengths in unions that are very hard to predict. We also have to accept that unless you have an exceptional client with both a strong love and understanding of their tree, the time frames realy required to undertake this kind of work may not be acceptable to them......very long hours of counselling required in this area of arb work, and even then it can be very frustrating to be hamstrung by the demands of the tree owner. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

1st July 2007, 04:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
Bermy Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bermuda Posts: 67	In the second picture is that a fungal bracket about halfway up the left branch? There are several things going on in that picture. The large wound from a branch removal below both of them, staining coming from that one and below the union in question, leads to ????. And a partially callused cut on the left branch! And included bark and a weak union! I'd probe the decay to see how extensive it is below those branches, check the target area underneath (sidewalk is pretty close) At the least I'd reduce the end weight on both of them, and monitor for changes, at worst I'd cut the whole damn thing off!!! How would that affect the balance and appearance of the tree? As an aside: I just took down a huge poinciana last week, I was absolutely amazed at the compartmentalization that had taken place given their propensity to rot. The tree was prob 30' with a huge spread, it had been badly topped about 10-15 years ago and had massive knuckles where it regrew. When I cut below the knuckles the wood was clean, no rot or very, very little!! Also there was an old cut with a classic teardown on one side, it had callused on the edges and rotted in the middle. I cut it off to get to the main diameter of the trunk, take a look at the before and after pic, a classic example of branch cone rot compartmentalized from the trunk tissue. Sorry, got to go, I'll post pictures later. __________________ Keep smiling, people will wonder what you are up to! (especially if you're gunning a chainsaw!)

1st July 2007, 08:08 PM	#4 (permalink)
mdvaden Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 564	That's one I'd rather cable rather than remove. I was talking to lady about several trees in her yard today - miniature versions of your photo example. One will be cabled, a few will be removed. __________________ ____________________________________ Grove of Redwood TITANS Oregon BIGOOT trap

5th July 2007, 05:25 AM	#8 (permalink)
TREE-SURFER Mature tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Isle of Man,UK. Posts: 407	Great job Ekka. __________________ The Aerial Arborist Isle of Man Tree Surgeon\| All Aspects of Tree Work Andy@Aerial-Arborist.co.uk What experts say about TOPPING

5th July 2007, 02:48 PM	#11 (permalink)
JayD Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 886	Good job mate,looks sweet. __________________ Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory

5th July 2007, 03:31 AM	#7 (permalink)
treestyle Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Brisbane Posts: 128	Tight union. you did well not to cut into the other branch.

5th July 2007, 11:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
treestyle Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: North Brisbane Posts: 128	you feel safe tying into the tips of those epi's?

6th July 2007, 01:55 AM	#13 (permalink)
JohN Dee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 728	Great job Ekka, nice work. What kind of climbing system did you install for the trim? For my trims I usually use two tie in points for good work positioning. __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

6th July 2007, 02:19 AM	#14 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	That one wasn't tall at all, I just used my lanyard and normal rope but you change over limbs everywhere all the time ... not one central high point. The branches were big and strong just dont be crazy. You got big branches to stand on. Then I also had my trusty Wolf Garten saw. I have the loppers which will cut say up to 30mm dia no worries on poinciana and the saw. I could also get some from the ground with HT75. http://www.atraes.com.au/Shop/index....BED585ED3EB%7D __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors