What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason?

dov

I don't know exactly why, but some trees, perfectly safe, sound trees, scare the whatever out of me - and the more I have to climb them the more scared I feel. I have to cut one like that at the moment. Smooth barked gum, which I don't like much, but hey! I've got spikes! The trunk is a bit twisted, which makes it difficult to climb, but what's so bad about that? The high tension powerline a few metres away doesn't bother me. Neither does the proximity to the house. Trees and heights don't normally scare me, so why have I become so scared of this tree?

Does anyone have tips for overcoming this strange fear?

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chrisingham

I close my eyes and climb it up ;-) Good luck overcoming your fear

sueann

Maybe because it's a bit creepy looking dov. There's no branches on this side at all, that's creepy, but we have trees that are like that, I think it's the wind. Or something.

dov

Well, the lower branches that I didn't cut off already fell off - generally on the house nearby - which is why the tree has to come out.

I don't know if I've ever found a tree really creepy though.

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dov

I often actually look at the view when I feel a bit unsteady. The better the view, the more comfortable I become.

In the end, I guess I'll have overcome it when the tree is on the ground! Haha!

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Apocalypsse

My old boss would have just scarfed it over, if it hits something, oH well.

dov

I kind of pride myself on not crushing anything. The other thing is that this tree is big enough to take out two whole backyards...

I'm back there tomorrow. Should be fine as long as the wind stays down.

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newguy18

I can't really help much since i'm never scared of trees,but i've climbed trees that have been dead for 20 years,so i guess after doing removals like that you don't think much of it,but i also think if your a little nervous it can aid you,you double check your lines,cuts,rigging and work positioning more,but if your scared out of your wits,maybe consider another proffession.If its happening on a regular basis,then yeah i'd think about another job.

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old schooler

lonniels

On trees such as that or any tree I am uncertain of I try to set a single line as a backup high in the tree. I then use my lanyard and spurs as well as the SRT line. It definetly helps my peace of mind.

Apocalypsse

Try doing 100+ ft Euc's on that theory. Knock the LV down a bit, she'll be right, oH wait, a bus will hit it, better fix it!

dov

Lopping and roping branches down on occasion can be a great help. Recently I did a whole Euc about 2 metres away from a car. The branches piled up on either side and behind the car, but there wasn't a scratch on the car itself. The tree was only 10 or 12 metres, so the 'bounce' factor wasn't so major.

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arborjockey

Occasionally i feel anxiety in trees not big not small not dangerouse. What i usually find is I have my ear muffs are on. Sounds stupid but with my equalibiam out of wack I dont have %100 confedece. sound helps level me out. Hope it helps

dov

Finally had the opportunity to go up that tree again today. Felt fine and think I may have figured out some of the reasons for my discomfort previously.

Firstly, most of my climbing in the past was free solo climbing. The tree cowboy I'd worked for previously had generally made me climb without any safety gear of climbing assistance. He also often used ladders to access trees (I hate ladders - I've had 3 falls from ladders, won't even use them now unless they are tethered and footed and generally will not let my workers on them at all.) Now that I'm climbing more difficult trees and very rarely use a ladder for access at all, but instead use spikes (removals only,) flipline and sometimes ropes for access and safety, I still hadn't learnt to trust my equipment.

Secondly, the tree is quite twisted. Leaning one way and then the other all the way up. Quite challenging on spikes and it felt like I was going to slip sideways and lose my footing wherever the trunk changed it's lean. Today I started to use my weight and the flipline to control my balance while working around the trunk to get below the lean.

Thirdly, getting some decent prussik cord makes so much difference. I didn't realise how nervous I was with the old cord. Even though it generally functioned reasonably well, there were the occasional little slips. Got myself some Beeline and love it.

I guess climbing with ropes and fliplines may never feel quite as free and wonderful as free solo climbing, but it's beginning to feel more comfortable now as I get used to my equipment.

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NeTree

Funny you post this thread; I thought it was just me.

Once in awhile I get a bad vibe from a tree, and walk away and reassess. Sometimes the feeling passes and up I go, and sometimes I rebook it for another day.

Oddly, it's not the biggest or worst-looking trees I get it from, either.

It used to bother me, but I've learned that since I'm still alive after over 20 years in the business... that spidey-sense must be doing something right.

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dannyboysfc

[QUOTE=dov;88630]
Today I started to use my weight and the flipline to control my balance while working around the trunk to get below the lean.
[QUOTE]

Most often climbers stay on top of the lean, at least if using spikes and flipline to go up. It is a lot easier!

Trees like that one get my nerves too sometimes, but get easier with more experience.

dov

[QUOTE=dannyboysfc;88743][QUOTE=dov;88630]
Today I started to use my weight and the flipline to control my balance while working around the trunk to get below the lean.
That's strange, I've read advice from elsewhere in these forums that it's easier below the lean and I must say I agree for the most part. However, when the lean gets more than 30 degrees, as in a couple of places on this tree, I don't think there is any real easy way to climb it!

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arborjockey

What the cowboy is going downunder I thought only "newguy" climbed like that. Backside of the lean dont beleive whoever posted that. It might be the guy who was suppoes to be holding your ladder on those three falls heres what helps me some times...Loosen up that flip line, lean back in your saddle maybe you need to set your climbline higher, and If you feel sketchy set your flip line so it pulls hard on your climbline reducing your sway. All these things are for biggeners though if you've been free climbing for that long id take the advice from NETREE get out and rethink. But more then rethink its your attitude befor you enter the tree. once again only my opinion. I think some trees beat you before you eaven leave the ground..If my confidence in life is down (girlfriends being a bitch my moms wants to know why im not making more money and i have to do some bull!@#$% job when I get off ) I tend to tread litely in a tree rather then attack like Im the best their is. I do desifer between fear and anxiety. Fear is why i surf fear is why i ride motorcycles mostly fear is why i climb trees everyday. Im scared to DEATH of heights Without a saddle i cant walk on a downed tree acoss a ravene. My girlfriend can do backflips on it and i get pins and needles so bad in my feet i cant cross. Saddle On 45-50mph winds in a cotton wood im all in. Big rotten dead thing im up it full speed.

dannyboysfc

[QUOTE=dov;88749][QUOTE=dannyboysfc;88743]Nope, I dont care who told you what! Get comfortable climbing on the top side of the lean and you'll find it a lot easier. I speak from personal experience, I used to be a bit scared of climbing leaners and would always try to tactfully get out of it. Then one day I had a real ugly madrone I had to do, with an audience to top it off, no getting out of it without loosing all respect. It was about 40 dbh tree on a hillside with about a 45 degree lean and the tree went straight out over the high voltage lines at 50 feet up. I spiked up there(was actually easier than I thought) got myself a nice high tie in and began working on the tree.

You can keep climbing under the lean if you want, but not if you wanna do it right!

newguy18

[QUOTE=arborjockey;88789]What the cowboy is going downunder I thought only "newguy" climbed like that. [QUOTE]

I'm sorry you guys can't all be as awesome as me.
In all seriousness though i keep it to a minimum these days,i try to be tied in by at least one rope at all times but sometimes its just not practical.

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old schooler

dov

Haha! Cowboy? Working hard at being an ex-cowboy.

OK, I'll try above the lean again. Unfortunately there is no tie-in point for an extra line, so it's flipline only.

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arborjockey

New guy your the master of post @ 5000+. Dont forget to read some of your first ones. You have come along way. But with that many post I have to use you as a example because I know you will always reply. (not because your a unskilled climber). At Bartlett we had a saftey guy who would sit in his car and watch w/ binoculars. then make you sign off on the un safe practices you performed Being untied were grounds to be fired. Im not knocking... my boss has been climbering longer then we've been alive and he's untied most of the ascent in every tree he climbs. Hes 60+ and smoken fast.

dov

[QUOTE=dannyboysfc;88816][QUOTE=dov;88749]Thanks for your honesty mate. It's helpful to me!

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newguy18

i think alot of the inexperianced or climbers within thier first 4-5 years get kinda nervous on leaners for the fact that you can't always get as good a footing and you have to really be adept at balancing more than on a straight tree.

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old schooler

dov

That's an encouragement to me! I have put off cclimbing that tree when my balance feels off.

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sueann

Dov! how about this for a creepy tree, would you like to climb one of these?

dov

I'll say that's creepy. Looks like bloody Chilean Willows. Those horrible things rot where they stand and the trunks break and fall all over the place! When they get too about 7 metres tall and start falling over from rot, we have to cut them down with no way to climb them safely and about 800mm between the house and the fence to drop them in!

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southsoundtree

A 540* flipline wrap that provides fall arrest will increase your positioning stability in the tree.

A choked climbline (running bowline with a GriGri/ hitch/ etc) can also aid in your stability. On very smooth trees, such as a madrone (arbutus menziesii) it would be possible to use a pole/ branch with a "Y" on the end to push up the running bowline, then pull the rope tight to choke, allowing an overhead TIP (and maybe a bit to the side). Use your 540* flipline to hold yourself in place while you advance you climbline. This works without spikes. Its not super easy without spikes, though you could always girth hitch some slings to the trunk for footloops while advancing your climbline overhead.

This seems like it should work for smooth palms, too, but I've never climbed palms.

If over a powerline, should you be spiking? What is you approach distance? Steel core flipline or rope?

The more they lean, the more spike climbing is like walking up stairs, to a point.

newguy18

What southsound said about a 540 safety line is good for work positioning,but for ascending its a real pain.Personally i would set a line in the top draping down,inside of the lean and footlock up,the once up there and saftied in,i'd have my spurs sent up to me,also try and leave some stubs so you can rappel down when blocking down,espically on the bend where it quits leaning and starts to straighten out,its alot easier and safer than trying to spike down.Oh and southsound,pics of your setup would be nice,but i doubt it would work on palms,espically washys ,sabals and dacts because of boots.

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old schooler

dannyboysfc

No offence NG but Id recomend not following this advice!

He needs to learn to spike up this tree with only a flipline, its not that hard of a tree.

Leaving stubs seems like a good idea, but can also cause problems and hurt if you slide down and knock yourself on one. I think its better to cut all limbs flush on your way up and if you need help coming down tie your climbing line to the trunk with a running bowline and decend on a figure 8 or carabiner(backed up by a prussic of cource, and dont forget to leave a tail on that bowline so you can retrieve it at your next cut).

Therrin

+1 @ what Danny just said.

I know I've posted on here before about getting the willies about some trees. I think that it can possibly be something speaking to that you need to listen to.
Some part of you may have noticed a problem that you haven't addressed, or maybe in the back of your mind you know there's gear you're using that isn't safe anymore, or that you don't trust anymore.
Being in the top of a tree is the WRONG place to decide you don't trust something you're using.

Other than that, yeah, leaners suck. The advice about the 540 deg wrap is excellent, so instead of cutting out or slipping and sliding down it chokes up tight and allows you to regain your footing.

Some trees, like you mentioned, they're really not that bad (not too tall, not too wierd, not too anything), I think if most climbers are honest they've all felt that way on occasion. Maybe not NG, but then his catchphrase is "I've only had (x amount) of accidents" or "I've only fallen out of a tree (y amount) of times!" in argument against his techniques.
The rest of us prefer to keep those numbers at ZERO. *shrugs*

It helps me to try to regain focus on what I'm doing, take a few deep breathes, review in my head what exactly it is I'm planning to do, kinda get myself "centered" as much as possible and continue. Or otherwise try to decide if there's some reason I can pin down that I feel uneasy.

I've retired several pieces of gear from that feeling.