What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason?

newguy18 · 31st May 2010, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyboysfc

No offence NG but Id recomend not following this advice!

He needs to learn to spike up this tree with only a flipline, its not that hard of a tree.

Leaving stubs seems like a good idea, but can also cause problems and hurt if you slide down and knock yourself on one. I think its better to cut all limbs flush on your way up and if you need help coming down tie your climbing line to the trunk with a running bowline and decend on a figure 8 or carabiner(backed up by a prussic of cource, and dont forget to leave a tail on that bowline so you can retrieve it at your next cut).

using a fixed line to overcome a leaner is much easier,safer,and a better way to over comer leaners.
Don't get me wrong,i spike up them alot,no worries,but if Dov isn't adept at it or is afraid of cutting out then he should use a fixed line.I leave stubs alot,in case i decide to rig off them,tie in to them,or just to use them as handholds and footrests.I agree you can get hurt by them,but choosing to leave them or not is a matter of opinion.Screw that single rope bs.its way too time consuming for my liking.

Therrin · 31st May 2010, 05:45 PM

From

to

dov · 1st June 2010, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

+1 @ what Danny just said.

I know I've posted on here before about getting the willies about some trees. I think that it can possibly be something speaking to that you need to listen to.
Some part of you may have noticed a problem that you haven't addressed, or maybe in the back of your mind you know there's gear you're using that isn't safe anymore, or that you don't trust anymore.
Being in the top of a tree is the WRONG place to decide you don't trust something you're using.

Other than that, yeah, leaners suck. The advice about the 540 deg wrap is excellent, so instead of cutting out or slipping and sliding down it chokes up tight and allows you to regain your footing.

Some trees, like you mentioned, they're really not that bad (not too tall, not too wierd, not too anything), I think if most climbers are honest they've all felt that way on occasion. Maybe not NG, but then his catchphrase is "I've only had (x amount) of accidents" or "I've only fallen out of a tree (y amount) of times!" in argument against his techniques.
The rest of us prefer to keep those numbers at ZERO. *shrugs*

It helps me to try to regain focus on what I'm doing, take a few deep breathes, review in my head what exactly it is I'm planning to do, kinda get myself "centered" as much as possible and continue. Or otherwise try to decide if there's some reason I can pin down that I feel uneasy.

I've retired several pieces of gear from that feeling.

Now THAT is real wisdom. Thank you.

southsoundtree · 1st June 2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

What southsound said about a 540 safety line is good for work positioning,but for ascending its a real pain.Personally i would set a line in the top draping down,inside of the lean and footlock up,the once up there and saftied in,i'd have my spurs sent up to me,also try and leave some stubs so you can rappel down when blocking down,espically on the bend where it quits leaning and starts to straighten out,its alot easier and safer than trying to spike down.Oh and southsound,pics of your setup would be nice,but i doubt it would work on palms,espically washys ,sabals and dacts because of boots.

I think that it would be a pain for ascending IF you let it choke the stem everytime. I grab both parts of the flipline in each hand, so its like having a 3/4" flipline instead of a 1/2" flipline. I let it choke the stem when I am going to cut a limb or if I need to jump a limb with my climbline, then I hang on the climbline and jump the flipline over said limb.

I have no experience climbing palms, and very little cutting them. I do have conifers up here that might fall under similar conditions as some smoother palms.

What is meant by "boots"? Is this something referring to the frond stubs?

I'll see about making a video or some pics when I can get to it.

newguy18 · 1st June 2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

+1 @ what Danny just said.

I know I've posted on here before about getting the willies about some trees. I think that it can possibly be something speaking to that you need to listen to.
Some part of you may have noticed a problem that you haven't addressed, or maybe in the back of your mind you know there's gear you're using that isn't safe anymore, or that you don't trust anymore.
Being in the top of a tree is the WRONG place to decide you don't trust something you're using.

Other than that, yeah, leaners suck. The advice about the 540 deg wrap is excellent, so instead of cutting out or slipping and sliding down it chokes up tight and allows you to regain your footing.

Some trees, like you mentioned, they're really not that bad (not too tall, not too wierd, not too anything), I think if most climbers are honest they've all felt that way on occasion. Maybe not NG, but then his catchphrase is "I've only had (x amount) of accidents" or "I've only fallen out of a tree (y amount) of times!" in argument against his techniques.
The rest of us prefer to keep those numbers at ZERO. *shrugs*

It helps me to try to regain focus on what I'm doing, take a few deep breathes, review in my head what exactly it is I'm planning to do, kinda get myself "centered" as much as possible and continue. Or otherwise try to decide if there's some reason I can pin down that I feel uneasy.

I've retired several pieces of gear from that feeling.

Hmmm,no accidents Ken?I seem to remember you telling me about a certain goof up like 2 years back,sooner or later every climber has an accident,wether its complacency,poor technique,or just something beyond your control,it happens,deal with it,life goes on.I have a very good sense of balance,and i like to do certain things for a reason,so therefore i continue to do things my way.I too have also retired alot of gear from an uneasy feeling,no matter what anyone else tells you dov,remember this,nothing in our industry is written in stone,whats right for one climber,may not be for another,go with your gut,if it don't feel right,don't do it.There is no shame in not doing a job or putting it off because you're uneasy.I know alot of guys who'd bash you,but i sure won't.

Therrin · 2nd June 2010, 12:04 PM

Quote:

I think that it would be a pain for ascending IF you let it choke the stem everytime.

On ascent it stays fairly loose, and as you mentioned you hold it in your hands and slide it up. It only chokes the trunk if you slip/fall, but ya also wanna keep your fingers out from between the rope and the trunk while moving in this way.

Quote:

What is meant by "boots"? Is this something referring to the frond stubs?

Okay no actually its these, yes.

Oh and before I forget about NG:

Yes, TWO YEARS AGO I dropped a branch out of a pine and broke something that was on the ground. Correct, mistakes do happen.

My reference to you was about PERSONAL INJURIES though. For example, number of times you've cut your flip and fallen OUT of the tree, while staunchly insisting that using two attatchment points is unnecessary.

I actually got a kick out of this, within a few posts of eachother.

Quote:

NG : Personally i would set a line in the top draping down,inside of the lean and footlock up

Quote:

NG : Screw that single rope bs.its way too time consuming for my liking.

dannyboysfc · 2nd June 2010, 03:48 PM

Is the tree that started this thread done yet? Did DOV learn anything or overcome the fear of leaners and twisted ugly trees? Must be nice for you guys who get to choose to leave a tree and come back another day, we don't have that luxury. If we get a nasty tree like that (wich has been like every other day lately) it doesn't matter how we feel, someone on the crew is gonna go up there and take care of it.

dov · 3rd June 2010, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyboysfc

Is the tree that started this thread done yet? Did DOV learn anything or overcome the fear of leaners and twisted ugly trees? Must be nice for you guys who get to choose to leave a tree and come back another day, we don't have that luxury. If we get a nasty tree like that (wich has been like every other day lately) it doesn't matter how we feel, someone on the crew is gonna go up there and take care of it.

It's good to have more than one climber I guess!

Therrin · 3rd June 2010, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyboysfc

If we get a nasty tree like that (wich has been like every other day lately) it doesn't matter how we feel, someone on the crew is gonna go up there and take care of it.

Must be nice to work on a crew then....

dov · 3rd June 2010, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

Must be nice to work on a crew then....

Haha! Yes indeed! It's me and a groundie normally. Just me on the smaller jobs!

dannyboysfc · 3rd June 2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dov

It's good to have more than one climber I guess!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

Must be nice to work on a crew then....

Yea I usualy work with another climber if possible, its a good idea and much safer too. Also in my experience climbers also make better groundies, especially when it comes to roping.

The point was though, that as long as the tree is safe to climb you should be ready any workday for any tree.

Therrin · 3rd June 2010, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyboysfc

Yea I usualy work with another climber if possible, its a good idea and much safer too. Also in my experience climbers also make better groundies, especially when it comes to roping.

The point was though, that as long as the tree is safe to climb you should be ready any workday for any tree.

But of course! Some of us just have a little tap-in with our inner voice.

"as long as the tree is safe to climb" ... yes. Some are difficult to say.

Oh btw, that big pine project that I was gonna bring the boom lift in on? The guy is in big financial trouble right now, his rentals just got foreclosed on, and he cancelled the project. So I got the balance of my net work to that point and the big dead tree is still there. *shrugs*

newguy18 · 3rd June 2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

On ascent it stays fairly loose, and as you mentioned you hold it in your hands and slide it up. It only chokes the trunk if you slip/fall, but ya also wanna keep your fingers out from between the rope and the trunk while moving in this way.

Okay no actually its these, yes.

Oh and before I forget about NG:

Yes, TWO YEARS AGO I dropped a branch out of a pine and broke something that was on the ground. Correct, mistakes do happen.

My reference to you was about PERSONAL INJURIES though. For example, number of times you've cut your flip and fallen OUT of the tree, while staunchly insisting that using two attatchment points is unnecessary.

I actually got a kick out of this, within a few posts of eachother.

3 falls,2 were very minor,i cut my flip,but i DIDN'T fall,if you go back to that thread,i cut most of the way through it,but caught my self by my hand hold,thanks to a stub i left.Once i cut it once,never happened again.Big deal,i'm still climbing,andi'll continue to do so as i please,oh and Ken,footlocking usually isn't srt.

Therrin · 3rd June 2010, 03:37 PM

Sorry NG, its hard to keep track of everything you post sometimes.

And, you just proved my point, very nicely. TY.

newguy18 · 3rd June 2010, 03:44 PM

See i'm so awesome you don't even know what i'm talking about,i'm like a tree climbing god or something.

Therrin · 3rd June 2010, 03:46 PM

Gods arent supposed to fall 3 times NG. You can be a climbing alcolyte, or possibly a lesser god or demon.

newguy18 · 3rd June 2010, 03:52 PM

Even gods have thier flaws Ken.

Therrin · 3rd June 2010, 04:18 PM

And that is why Ninjas shall rule the planet, led by Sir Ken, the TW Ninja Monkey.

HIYAH!!!

southsoundtree · 3rd June 2010, 06:03 PM

Those "boots" definitely would cause my idea not to work. I was only thinking about some smoother palms that I've seen pics of. No idea what they are called. Are those boots stiff enough to stand on, or do they fold under foot? Look like they would hold a flipline well.

dov · 3rd June 2010, 10:36 PM

I've been following the discussion here with interest and should probably give an update.

The tree and this discussion have sparked off a very useful chain of reflection and I've arrived at my current empasse. Certain now that a lot of the fear traces back to a chronic illness which I've had for some 18yrs. I've been trying to get my treatment improved for the last 1.5yrs, but the public hospital system moves at a snails pace. Can't afford the medication privately, especially the new one I want to try and I have to jump through the hoops to get past the government restrictions on it anyway. To cut a long story short, my physical condition is letting me down too much and I'm looking at possibly dropping the business for a while as I'm getting too many days when I can't climb anything much. My other option is to employ a climber, not an easy option with a small business like mine.

Hard to imagine not working with trees, I love it so much. C'est la vie.

dannyboysfc · 4th June 2010, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

3 falls,2 were very minor,i cut my flip,but i DIDN'T fall,if you go back to that thread,i cut most of the way through it,but caught my self by my hand hold,thanks to a stub i left.Once i cut it once,never happened again.Big deal,i'm still climbing,andi'll continue to do so as i please,oh and Ken,footlocking usually isn't srt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by southsoundtree

Those "boots" definitely would cause my idea not to work. I was only thinking about some smoother palms that I've seen pics of. No idea what they are called. Are those boots stiff enough to stand on, or do they fold under foot? Look like they would hold a flipline well.

Yeah that rope with a stick to push it up idea, definately not doesn't sound like a go too move. I can't think of when that would actually give you an advantage.

Those boots sometimes you can stand on and sometimes they slip off under your feet, sometimes they come off while your spiking your way up and stick on the spike and can make it hard to get your spike into solid wood(or whatever palms actually are), and as far as holding the flipline sometimes they hold too good and it gets jammed up in between the boots.

treeshaveneeds · 6th June 2010, 03:15 AM

Well Dov, how about hiring a climber as a groundie, and switch the days you're not feeling up to climbing .
I too have a small company -- myself, and sometimes a groundman. I have one right now that is really good, but he never gets off the ground. And I recently hooked into another climber that is excellent, but is slowly getting out of the business. I call him for the rough jobs, and with him and the groundman get the job done.

I have found many of the posts interesting, but if I have a tree that scares me that much, I try and find another way of doing it. Every time a little voice has said don't climb any further, or don't climb at all - I have paid attention to it, and I'm still alive and climbing. And I've found out after, why I shouldn't have climbed any higher. Little voices often know more than the conscious you, it pays to listen to them.

If I think the job is really dangerous, leave it to someone else. Let them take the risks, and the big paycheck, or the big insurance bill.

I have to wonder what the illness is - 18 years is a long time.

Therrin · 6th June 2010, 04:44 AM

I seriously sat here thinking for a good 5 mins or so about what exactly tree shaving needs were; and then i finally got it.

dov · 6th June 2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeshaveneeds

Well Dov, how about hiring a climber as a groundie, and switch the days you're not feeling up to climbing .

That's a line I'm trying to follow. About my only option now if I want to stay in business.

sueann · 6th June 2010, 09:36 PM

I hope you're ok Dov, it sounds like a long time to have something wrong.

*Shaking my head at Therrin!*

dov · 7th June 2010, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sueann

I hope you're ok Dov, it sounds like a long time to have something wrong.

*Shaking my head at Therrin!*

Ye, it's chronic. No medical cure. Tried hard to never let it stop me before. I've even been a CFA firefighter with it (had to work hard to prove myself and it took 6 months to get past the CFA doctor) and done a stack of rough jobs.

treeshaveneeds · 7th June 2010, 04:40 PM

Dov, have you considered a naturopath or a homeopath. They may be abler to help you where the regular system can't.

And having someone else climb for you isn't so bad, as long as they do good work.

treeshaveneeds · 7th June 2010, 08:27 PM

lol Glad you finally made sense of the name Therrin, a lot of people make the same mistake.

dov · 7th June 2010, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeshaveneeds

Dov, have you considered a naturopath or a homeopath. They may be abler to help you where the regular system can't.

And having someone else climb for you isn't so bad, as long as they do good work.

Ye I tried a Naturopath some years ago. Made things somewhat worse unfortunately...

I'm hoping to get a climber. I love tree work, but I love climbing most of all. For many I guess it's the thrill of the wood crashing into the ground, but for me it's about the climbing and the amazing feeling of freedom you get up in the canopy.

treeshaveneeds · 8th June 2010, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dov

Ye I tried a Naturopath some years ago. Made things somewhat worse unfortunately...

I'm hoping to get a climber. I love tree work, but I love climbing most of all. For many I guess it's the thrill of the wood crashing into the ground, but for me it's about the climbing and the amazing feeling of freedom you get up in the canopy.

I certainly agree with the feeling of freedom, and peace and serenity in the treetops. There's no place like it.

31st May 2010, 05:45 PM	#32
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,512	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? From to

2nd June 2010, 03:48 PM	#37
dannyboysfc Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: California Posts: 183	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? Is the tree that started this thread done yet? Did DOV learn anything or overcome the fear of leaners and twisted ugly trees? Must be nice for you guys who get to choose to leave a tree and come back another day, we don't have that luxury. If we get a nasty tree like that (wich has been like every other day lately) it doesn't matter how we feel, someone on the crew is gonna go up there and take care of it.

3rd June 2010, 03:37 PM	#44
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,512	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? Sorry NG, its hard to keep track of everything you post sometimes. And, you just proved my point, very nicely. TY.

3rd June 2010, 03:44 PM	#45
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 4,977	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? See i'm so awesome you don't even know what i'm talking about,i'm like a tree climbing god or something. __________________ Have your say join us today. old schooler

3rd June 2010, 03:46 PM	#46
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,512	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? Gods arent supposed to fall 3 times NG. You can be a climbing alcolyte, or possibly a lesser god or demon.

3rd June 2010, 03:52 PM	#47
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 4,977	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? Even gods have thier flaws Ken. __________________ Have your say join us today. old schooler

3rd June 2010, 04:18 PM	#48
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,512	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? And that is why Ninjas shall rule the planet, led by Sir Ken, the TW Ninja Monkey. HIYAH!!!

3rd June 2010, 06:03 PM	#49
southsoundtree Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Olympia, WA, USA Posts: 84	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? Those "boots" definitely would cause my idea not to work. I was only thinking about some smoother palms that I've seen pics of. No idea what they are called. Are those boots stiff enough to stand on, or do they fold under foot? Look like they would hold a flipline well.

3rd June 2010, 10:36 PM	#50
dov Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 651	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? I've been following the discussion here with interest and should probably give an update. The tree and this discussion have sparked off a very useful chain of reflection and I've arrived at my current empasse. Certain now that a lot of the fear traces back to a chronic illness which I've had for some 18yrs. I've been trying to get my treatment improved for the last 1.5yrs, but the public hospital system moves at a snails pace. Can't afford the medication privately, especially the new one I want to try and I have to jump through the hoops to get past the government restrictions on it anyway. To cut a long story short, my physical condition is letting me down too much and I'm looking at possibly dropping the business for a while as I'm getting too many days when I can't climb anything much. My other option is to employ a climber, not an easy option with a small business like mine. Hard to imagine not working with trees, I love it so much. C'est la vie. __________________

6th June 2010, 03:15 AM	#52
treeshaveneeds Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,399	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? Well Dov, how about hiring a climber as a groundie, and switch the days you're not feeling up to climbing . I too have a small company -- myself, and sometimes a groundman. I have one right now that is really good, but he never gets off the ground. And I recently hooked into another climber that is excellent, but is slowly getting out of the business. I call him for the rough jobs, and with him and the groundman get the job done. I have found many of the posts interesting, but if I have a tree that scares me that much, I try and find another way of doing it. Every time a little voice has said don't climb any further, or don't climb at all - I have paid attention to it, and I'm still alive and climbing. And I've found out after, why I shouldn't have climbed any higher. Little voices often know more than the conscious you, it pays to listen to them. If I think the job is really dangerous, leave it to someone else. Let them take the risks, and the big paycheck, or the big insurance bill. I have to wonder what the illness is - 18 years is a long time.

6th June 2010, 04:44 AM	#53
Therrin Former Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield, Ca Posts: 2,512	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? I seriously sat here thinking for a good 5 mins or so about what exactly tree shaving needs were; and then i finally got it.

6th June 2010, 09:36 PM	#55
sueann Former Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hunter Valley Australia Posts: 599	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? I hope you're ok Dov, it sounds like a long time to have something wrong. Shaking my head at Therrin!

7th June 2010, 04:40 PM	#57
treeshaveneeds Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,399	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? Dov, have you considered a naturopath or a homeopath. They may be abler to help you where the regular system can't. And having someone else climb for you isn't so bad, as long as they do good work.

7th June 2010, 08:27 PM	#58
treeshaveneeds Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,399	Re: What do you do when you get scared of a tree for no reason? lol Glad you finally made sense of the name Therrin, a lot of people make the same mistake.

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