Vancouver's Stanley Park Hollow Tree

Eric Frei

Stanley Park's Hollow Tree listed as 'monument'

stanley park hollow tree - Google Image Search

Another tree that the local authority wants to cut down however it's now considered a monument and efforts being made to preserve/save it somehow.

Seems humans are yet to truly grasp the finite thing called life. Has a beginning and an end ... end of story.

I reckon, cut it down, use it as you like. Thing about trees is they can be useful when dead ... furniture, instruments, buildings, ornaments etc. Could always build a replica I suppose if a shrine is how you like to remember the past.

However, in a hundred years time the current generation would have died out too so who'd really care?

Think about it, how many of you right now reading this can recall a tree, that is dead, and for some reason or other care, that did not die during you life span.

The allocation of resources to such things is emotional and illogical.... it is the cycle of life, and for some bizaar reason when the end of that cycle is near the $'s allocated to terminal condition is bloody irrational.

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funarty

Ah some people just love wasting money ,maybe they have too much!

treeseer

What does "end" and "terminal condition" mean?

funarty

Fineto,nothing can be done to stop it dieing like cancerIt's coming to an end ....dead

Eric Frei

Terminal meaning death, end meaning dead.

It's show over, dead or darn close to it, generally irreversible.

Another example but not so bad is the Anne Frank tree. But that one is a bit different coz it's large and there's targets about.

Stanley Park Hollow Tree in Vancouver is a 13m tall dead stump!

The Tree of Knowledge is dead. I say use the money on other trees and get a grip on death. They "cloned" the tree of knowledge though, big deal, so does most nurseries when they strike cuttings. Also seed banks are around. Not as though it was a rare and endangered or extinct species that needs mummification for a museum.

Attached Thumbnails

 

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Sean Freeman

There is a great deal of difference qualitatively between striking cuttings from varietal hybrids in a commercial context and the cloning of individual specimens that have by their unique genetic make up been able to out live all their peers, despite the best efforts of us to create an environment completely inimical to their survival.

It is very important and worthwhile to propogate such specimens, and frankly more of it should be done.

Its kind of sad that you don't grasp the relevance of preserving physical markers of your own cultural history, but if you don't then you don't I guess....Thankfully there are enough people who do recognise the importance of what went before, of seeing ourselves as part of a historical process (good and bad) not with a simple objective or destination...(no teleology here!) but the journey does have lessons for us, I think some we should pay attention too..but thats just me.

Finding beauty and recognising worth in veteran trees is a means to help the general community to move toward recognising the worth of all flora, and fauna.....its very Qld to think what does it matter we can just plant another it'll grow quick enough.

treeseer

You are far from alone on this. American Forests: National Register of Big Trees

"dead or darn close to it, generally irreversible."

Eric, you substitute one vague and subjective phrase for another, not close to a definition, sounds more like just frei's opinion of when impatience rules.

"nothing can be done to stop it dieing like cancer"

funarty, I was diagnosed with blood cancer--leukemia-- 6 years ago. I'm glad I found an oncologist who thought something could be done. Something can always be done.

But is it always worthwhile? Of course not. I look at the expense of that cage around the Anne Frank tree, and think of that money spent on tree care and planting.

Eric Frei

Dont make mountains out of mole hills, the trees are dead, CAPICHE'! Get over it.

Call it what you like, Freemanism and Meilleurism extremities need to be kept in check as emotions can hinder comprehension.

Bullshit, I did say Markers, including rocks and stone are used to this day for many historic purposes, doesn't mean spend $1million dollars mummifying a tree like the Tree of Knowledge.

Impatience rules what, the bloody things are both dead. Perhaps you're an indecisive procrastinator. The things are dead and being or have to be dealt with ... some just get on with it quicker than others. In the case of the hollow tree they want to get on with it but an 11th hour intervention is preventing it.... the hazard remains though.

Both of these trees are dead. Both in their locations were/are a hazard and had work done but now have to go.

Options were provided as shown above.

So the fact that you dont know what to do about marking history means holding up the removal of a hazard? Seems to me you're failing in your role.

And Sean, you may want to update the Wiki page on cloning/striking as there seems little difference.

Cutting (plant) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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MrsEkka

I don't comment much on this forum as I'm not an arborist but when I see irrational thinking well then I'll have my say. Sean, It seems to me you value the life of a tree over that of the life of humans, whether the tree is dead and dangerous or not. Not to mention the waste of money that could be used towards replanting or saving a perfectly healthy tree. I agree with Eric, built a monument or something to that effect but do not keep a dead tree that is dangerous & not to mention the huge waste of money spend toward preserving it.

By the way, I'm a Queenslander and proud of it but unlike your crude comment towards Queenslanders, I am very passionate about our state and world. You'd be surprised how much effort Eric & I put into trying to helping people to save their trees and treat them well. We know it takes years for new trees to grow. Don't put everyone in a box, think before you judge.

Sean Freeman

People can read into what i write any emotions they desire, its the readers perogative.....there really is very little antagonism in anything I write here or elsewhere it is a waste of my energies.

I have written in this forum on at least three occaisions that the opposite is true...ie I value a single human life far above the retention of a truely hazardous tree...............

Not every veteran tree has a target, nearly all the targets I have ever inspected could and probably should be controlled, rather than chopping into the tree needlessly...it is a waste of resources at every level...most trees need no intervention based on the assessment of risk, rather the owner of the tree prefers to act on percievedd risk (which they are entitled to do....I'm just not that interested in that)

Which is sadly based on 21yrs of experiencing their attitudes and actions...sorry if my anecdotal experience is at great variance with you and yours, it was a generalisation, and I'll wear the flak for stating it.


Yes I do try........


Eric that is what the tree is already.

What the local council and the ALP should have done was invest less than a minute fraction of that amount putting in place real tree care for this tree...the kind of veteran tree care I am interested in does not really envolve what happens after the tree is removed...thats more like the realm of a woodworking craftsman than an arborist to me.

treeseer

True. Case in point, the Frei-ism of calling living things dead, and adding mobsterspeak for emotional emphasis, while cutting short the tough job of risk assessment and management.

Talk about our arms and legs--"extremities" --all you like, but proposing the premature removal of what remains an asset to the owner is a more extremist attitude than proposing conservation.

The starting point is, the tree exists. How do we first respond to it, that defines us as arborists, or vegetation managers. In the field, there would be much more agreement between us than dis-. And I agree that 11th hour delays are often not well founded.

Eric Frei

The difference is guys when I get on the topic I do just that.

But for some bizaar reason when the "tree huggers" get on the topic they stoop to low levels of taint and name calling.

Stuff like suggesting I dont grasp certain things because I dont agree with your model of history or tree care is just BULLSHIT.

Here's the reminder.
And treeseer suggests that for some bizaar reason I am impatient, an extremist of sorts.

Same common denominator, jump on the person rather than the issue.... try and make them look some way inadequate. That is the bullshit guys.

Sean, the existing dead tree that you refer to as a monument then fails engineering practices and arboricultural practices .... in all worlds of structural assessment it is a hazard. A replica would offer a lot less risk and show what was there. See what happens when people turn things into monuments when they have no idea?

So in hind site I can say perhaps I grasp both worlds a little better than you two.

What's premature about a dead rotten stump? Extremist my ass, realist more like it.

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Sean Freeman

Eric its very kind of you to suggest that it is "my model of history, or tree care" I wish that were true I'd be very happy if I had been one of the many people who over a fair period have established and continue to refine the sensible and balanced care apportioned to veteran trees.

I can only respond to what i read that you've written, if I have unfairly interpreted your words then i am sorry. It is that which I base me comments on.

Its only a hazard if the risk to a target is demmed unacceptable Eric...sure a replica made from artificial substances would have less risk...removing all trees removes all risk???? There are levels of risk we all live with quite happily, there are established levels of risked deemed acceptable internationally 1/10,000 is regarded as the cut off point, it applies here just as it does anywhere else in the world.
If the owner of a tree wishes to set the bar higher, and want to remove/manage/control all risk of significant harm at say 1/20,000 then fine they can do that....the implication though would be that they would then be making very different choices in their everyday life too, walking along the roadside, operating their motorvehicle and so on....it is very unlikely that this would be the case.

In a very great many cases target can be controlled/reduced, its just that the decision is made to cut the tree before any of that is considered, there are lots of options Eric and you know them as well as I do.

I'm not sure what Arboricultural practices you refer too?

I probably should have written "you don't seem to grasp" rather than "you don't grasp"...but I get lazy in my writing too.

I probably don't have any idea in the world the way you percieve it Eric, and frankly I'm comfortable with that....I'm not sure what it is that you grasp better than I, but there would be lots for sure.

treeseer

Nope, sorry, the owner defines what is a hazard, and every individual owner has an individually defined risk tolerance.

You have a lot of expertise, Eric, but even you cannot speak for "all worlds".

Eric Frei

Hey Einsteins, it's falling down!

Neither do you. And the owners want it gone but a bunch of other people are sticking their nose into it, sort of blows your theory out then, taking the rights of the owners away from what they'd like to do.

Then for many they're not the "experts" in assessing hazardous trees yet you expect them to be?

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Eric Frei

An update

Hollow Tree 'still a goner'

The Canadian Press: Supporters rally to save Vancouver's famed 1,000-year-old famed Hollow Tree

And they have a website now for saving the dead tree. Friends of the Hollow Tree I downloaded their document along with the original tree reports, see attachment.

Interesting to note that the original tree report did make plans for the retention and stabilization of the tree.

In the report the "save the Hollow Tree people" have also made same, and, hello both groups have said a 100 year life span for the dead stump would be great. What we dont know is in 100 years time if there would be any treatments or better practices that could prevent wood decay. We can only work in the present. I dont recall mention in the report of the safety part but I assume it would be "open to visit" not fenced off if re-engineered.... so would a replica.

Attached Files

ExpertHollowTreeReport.pdf (2.48 MB, 79 views)

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treestyle

ahh............ so how's the weather?

Eric Frei

Weather?

They're going to put a weather cap on it ... hey sounds weird, save the dead tree.

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s.kerrone

B.C's forestry is in the tank,there are more homeless people than ever in Vancouver and all our goverment can think of is the winter games (2010) and its image to the world....like a hollow stump!!!!

Eric Frei

See, if yanks were running that show they'd build a theme park there and make 1000x times more profit than some dead stump! Give them homeless bums a job too.

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Sean Freeman

Not entirely sure thats how the homeless and destitute get treated in the USA!

Very interesting report though.

funarty

It looks pretty stuffed they should just lie it on its side!

newguy18

I gotta agree with Ekka,around here it would have been long gone.

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old schooler

Eric Frei

Hollow Tree huggers hold out hope

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funarty

geezzzz You guys need to lighten up .Go the tree huggers

Robert STAVROU

Afternoon colleagues,
There is some wonderful conversation here, all thoughts can stimulate and are generally welcomed and appreciated (professionally and privately) Less use of emotive language would indicate that we treat each other with some gentleness.

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Eric Frei

Argh, we go back a while and know each others angles, you tend to build up a thick hide over time when on these forums, can be brutal, and this one is tame compared to some others.

The spontaneity, the instant publication, the immediate response times and inability of censorship in the first instance makes for good rebuttle, next best thing to face to face, simply cant be repeated in print media so over time you get to understand it.

Hey, I'll string together the list for me so far.

Uneducated blue collar redneck wanker gay environmentalist bitch shiny assed knob. Quite a mouthful but that's what I have been called. And I tend to do things right so imagine what they'd call the hacks of the industry?!

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treevet

Might want to witness the indoctrination of one "Aerial" recently. Some less than delicate treatment of individuals can be deserved and enlightening, even educational for the recipient.

All over our pathetic liberal new country a movement has been festering described as "stop the bullying" in our schools. What this entails is a whiny, wimpy arrogant, spoiled snotty nosed little young student can say virtually anything he so pleases or his daddy lawyer will sue the school if the brat gets the fat lip/bloody nose he so much deserved/needed for his future development. You can imagine the fine outstanding character this is to deal with in the mature form.

Eric Frei

Hey, I have lil kids and I can tell you some of these 5 year olds at school have one heck of a gob on them! Times have changed a lot. Teachers get in trouble for raising their voice at kids or copping them off, it's a huge problem called discipline and lack of.

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treevet

Yeah and these kids grow to run our countries. Things sure have changed.