Unpredictable total tree failure

derwoodii

This happens every few years and upsets me being a tree hugger as the tree showed no outward signs or indicators to allow failure prediction.
The nil wind shearing of what should be strong as steel laminated bonds of sound tree wood as found in some summer limb drop, was in this case the failure between root plate of the tree.
Hindsight tell tale wood fibre tears and folds with the white fungal mycelium is seen at point of failure but we got no method to know this before hand (my x-ray vision is not so good these days). In this case there was some root girdling but it was sub surface, so not visible. Yet still the trees vigour and all other vitals were tip top.

Interesting the solid trunk split/slabbed vertically up along to a limb union that had no failure points or signs.

This year beside this tree we removed a very large gum with many strong indicators or failure, While doing this job I was asked how an Arborist can tell good wood from bad wood an I used this tree as an example of no signs of predictable failure, oppsy...

Oh, still don't know what species of gum this is its down to about a list of 70 gums will try to continue to key it out. Its got a small nut with a single cap hole weird like a bullet without a primer.

Sos pictures of the inground root mass were not so good but were like the reverse of whats seen up in the air

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Apocalypsse

Doesn't look like theres any roots on the road side at all. Was thinking may have been damage from construction but theres no signs at all of roots growing that way. Interesting the way it slabbed up at the base there. Don't have any pictures of when it was still standing do you?

Eric Frei

There's a road so Google Street View should dial up a picture.

I also suspect that there was a grade change (increased).

For high target value or occupancy rates it is pretty much absolutely necessary to do a trunk flare/root crown investigation.

I would also say that the de-lamination (splitting) occurred after it fell not before, the impact of hitting the ground split it as happens time to time when you fell trees like that.

Even if you drilled or resistograph tested that tree low in the trunk you would have got a decent reading, it was the trees anchoring roots that were defective, so a lazy arborist who is not prepared to take time to dig would not have found or seen anything wrong. Tracing out those buttress/anchoring roots is critical, especially on the side opposite to the target and on the predominant windward side. Often it can be done easily with a hand trowel and a blower or a garden hose.

I once looked at a Jacaranda in a school, plenty of targets around, crown dying off mainly on one side. Same deal, root crown inspection revealed a massive girdling root, poor anchorage and the crown dieback was consistent with where the tree had applied it's own tourniquet.... recommendation was removal.

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Paul Toivonen

Good bit of firewood now.
Plant a few more if you are concerned about it.

derwoodii

Post analysis will reveal most tree failure cause, my post was how this tree and others don't give a you visual clue that failure is on it way.
Its not often but sobering that it can and will happen.
In this case no hint of poor root development connection or construction damage was or could be seen and as said the tree looked happy and well.
My task on the day was not to assess this tree but still I am more often drawn to further check any tree that presents as NQR.

Correct if asked to check a high target large tree always dig to be sure never assume.

More often poor root design should see a tree fail before it gets to large, not so in this case and yet failure was nil wind.
I had a termited tree go over some years back tree twas perfect in every way but they had chewed the trunk from the roots with out tree showing any decline.

I may have some pictures saved pre failure as many taken of the wrong un next to it I'll have a look. The goggle aerial shot don't help much as much canopy and tree is not road side but rear of a disability care centre.

Yup good fire wood it is next week I'll collect.

Oh merry chrissy all.

George Valentine

I have been looking at these pics and reading your comments about it and, I wonder if all the support roots have been attached by fungi or something else as it appears that, from the last pic (which I wish I was closer as I would be asking you for that root-ball for my turnings, nice stuff in there...!).

Anyway, it seems that all of a certain, the whole tree base structure was based upon a root ball without any support/feeding roots connections, as if they have rotted away, making the canopy weigh and swing to throw the tree out of balance and fall.

The really question is, as you pointed out, how to predict such event, and or how to be able to determine that a tree, is in such critical condition, when there are not visual signs or indication of some problem...???

Sure digging some roots and test them out for density, strength, moisture content and so many other test possible, including the visual signs of any fungi activity, are OK if one has some indication that something may be wrong but not as a general procedure to all trees as that would be impracticable, time consuming and expensive in the end, to conduct as a priority and routinely inspection.

There will be the day where someone will come up with some sort of gadget that can detect such abnormalities in trees, and I would be a happy man if I would be still alive to try one one these but, that ain't going to happen so, there will be always a certain numbers of things that we humans, with all the capabilities we were created with, will never be able to see, predict, detect and prevent, before the fact...!

If only life was that predictable...!!!!

Cheers
George

Darrell Mcleod

Makes you wonder how old, how long the tree has been there and when was the road built or have any services been put in trenching etc

derwoodii

Tree was about same age as road no trenchin that could be see or known, it just went kaplunk n that's what worries me. Yes poor tree roots design was cause but nil outward signs at all chalk it up as lesson to be learnt if value target below treat all trees with respect.

Oh yes the trunk slabin was post fall but shows the poor structure was within trunk as well failing along hidden rupture lines.

derwoodii

It sure would be a interesting bit of grain to spin up I'll see if any is left aside n cross cut it for your diagnosis.

George Valentine

Ok yeah...! I would like to see that , just don't forget to wet the wood before you take the pic(s), water will enhance the wood grain and colours...!

Cheers
George

derwoodii

Well this is interesting only about 6 days old its not been that hot and the tree timber woods cracking up like glass, fissure every where. I still don't know what species this may be worthy to track down perhaps eucalyptus shatterous.

Wonder what wood cell compound is missing or to high or too low to allow this.



Oh no pics found worthy of the tree prior sos that.

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Brent Ferris

Not familiar with your tree species, but I have found trees that have so many radial cracks so fast are usually starved for water, and when the trunk is cut, tensions in the wood structure are released and the wood cracks in the easiest direction,

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George Valentine

Holy sugar...!!!!

Geezzzz..., what ever that is, one thing is certain, I've got plenty of that stuff around here.

Good for firewood but, useless for wood turning and anything else, unless you're doing toothpicks...!

I get great disappointments when I go through great troubles and expense to get a gum tree down that, looks most suitable for wood turning, only to find out that sort of behaviour within sometimes 72 hours of being cut. Even if I paint/seal the ends in the same day I cut it, still nothing will stop those cracks and in a few extra weeks, you almost don't need to split it as it "blows" apart like dry mud...!

Thank goodness that I use about 4 cubs of firewood each year...!

Well, I thank you for the pics anyway but, the bit that I was talking about, is not so obvious for non-woodworkers/turners particularly, as we tend to see wood differently.
The piece of interest is shown on your own pic edited attached, imagine the bottom line being about 1' or so, them a square is cut at about 7" deep, that is your turning blank, if it comes up in one piece..!

Cheers
George

George Valentine

Well, that makes a lot of sense but what gets me is that, most of this area has water within a few feet from the surface, lots of springs, creeks, etc., and I remember well that the last gum that done that to me, was cut within 20 yards from a running water spring so, I got and still am, really confused...!

PS: Attached is a pic of a log from this last tree, after 2 days of being cut at about an average of about 25°C

Cheers
George

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Eric Frei

Did you notice that all cracking is generally radial from the pith.

The wood is drying out too fast and the higher the moisture content prior to felling the more likely it is to crack (severely).

As the wood dries it shrinks.

I read that soaking in water and allowing to dry slowly keeping it moist, out of the sun etc reduces cracking.

These gums grow fast, have distinctive heartwood/sapwood that dries at different rates. Guys, cut the piece you want and drop it in a 44 gallon drum full of water for a few days then dry it out in the shade with a damp sack over it or something. Just trying to help.

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George Valentine

Yes, you are correct Eric, and there are a few methods of reducing the green wood cracking, tried constantly by self wood gatherers wood-turners, particularly. I don't think that is a method that one could thing of, that I didn't try, through all these years, and while some methods are quite effective to "some" woods, there are other methods that are totally useless to all kinds of wood but, and you hear someone swear about a system that they just tried and that worked, even if looking totally ridiculous, we try them all, even if some of us would be to ashamed to admit it.

If you look in here you will see that I not only used the water soaking but added the dish-washing concentrated detergent, which is a well used and efficient method to reduce wood cracking on green wood, however and as I said, this system as proved to be totally useless on most of these, damn gum species with a mind of their own...!

With gum species, I have about 50% failure rate, on processed green wood into all sorts of turning blanks, regardless what I do to them. The most unbelievable test I've done, was to use a wood stabilising product that has become my best friend, when it comes to woods with an attitude.

The product is made by Feast Watson and its name is Fungishield, readily available is most hardware stores, throughout Australia. This product was made to combat the development of fungi or stain in the green wood, reduce considerably the warping, cracking and other wood reaction while drying by replacing the water within with this lubricant material that make the wood more playable while drying, therefore reducing the stress cracks from wood cell collapse...!

Well, this product is as liquid as water and soaks into the wood like a sponge, so, and instead of brushing generously the green wood with it, twice in a 24 hour period, which did failed miserably with some of this stupid gums, I decide to go all "monty" and by a 20 lite drum of this product and submerse one piece/a turned rough round blank in it, from a log cut from the tree 24hours prior.

I decided to leave it there for 7 days, just to make sure the penetration was total and after that period, with checking every day, some of the small cracks I've seen appearing on the end-grain after the first day of submersion, they did increase sightly throughout the process but, and after the piece was removed from the solution, wrapped in news paper and put to dry in one of my drying racks, under cover and with good ventilation, this "thing" became alive with movement and the cracks sound was perfectly audible when I was near it, when the wood let go.

I should have some pics somewhere of this piece, after 5 days from coming out of the solution, one would need to see it to believe it, if one hasn't seen this sort of thing before. It was even useless as firewood as I wouldn't burn something soaked with any kind of chemicals so, it looked like someone put something in between the wood and rip it apart, following the grain, just unbelievable, and the pith was removed a fair distance from the blanks edge...!

Extremes are extremes, and Gums are capable of the most extreme behaviours I ever seen in any wood species, and I've seen/worked with a "few"...! However, I have experience processing pieces of wood/burls, coming from gums that nothing in the word compares to...!

Like someone call them, a necessary "evil"

Cheers
George

Brent Ferris

There is a product called polyethylene glycol, sort of waxy and you put it in a tub of this , keeping it submerged. If the solution is hot like around 120-160 deg F, it is kept in for 2-3 weeks; if the solution is cold, the wood is kept in it for 3 months or more. Basically, the moisture is replaced by the waxy stabilizer, and most woods work quite well. Not sure if gums were tried. THe big problem is because of the wax, the wood cannot be stained or finished, and will always have a waxy feel. But for some projects, it might be worth investigating. And I think some of derwoodii's pieces could be used to turn pens, and miniature figures...........

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)