Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards?

Eric Frei · 27th July 2007, 09:09 AM

Is anyone aware of any standards on this subject?

I heard a rumour that the new AS4373 was going to cover it but that's not the case.

Sean Freeman · 27th July 2007, 11:37 AM

Have a feeling about 12months back there was a request for input into the commitee sitting to draw up the draft standard Tree protection on construction sites...have heard nothing since, but thats not surprising can take up to 2yrs to even get to the draft position.....it will be a clone of the British standard ?Trees in. relation to Construction - Recommendation ? (B.S. 5837 2005)

pomme · 28th July 2007, 05:47 AM

great in theory but you need to get the builders to accept it and the planners to enforce it. unfortunatly a situation that rarely happens

treeseer · 30th July 2007, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pomme

great in theory but you need to get the builders to accept it and the planners to enforce it. unfortunatly a situation that rarely happens

If standards are in place they can be forced to enforce. Without standards, nothing.

Eric Frei · 17th January 2008, 08:02 PM

This is a relatively new estate.

The area has a WAV, SNV and SLT VPO's, basically all trees are protected regardless of size.

I'll run through the pics of what these trendy burbs are up to. This one is off Fig Tree Pocket rd in Brisbane, not that far from the city, maybe 10kms tops.

Typical narrow streets you have to park on the grass so others can get by, doing a U-Turn with truck or trailer etc is a right bugger and you will be looking for two driveways opposite each other to do it or a decent reversing job.

Now pay attention to the grey gum (euc major) by the trailer.

Note the grade change, hard landscape surfaces, building and lawn.

Looking at the canopy you note the lower collar cuts of work on the trunk however take note (not of the plane but couldn't miss that opportunity) of the dead wood, loads of it.

Here's a side on look at the codominant union, nice elephant ears. In the 2nd pic above this was around where the top of the light pole was.

And now you'll get 2 pics showing both sides of that codominant union.

Eric Frei · 17th January 2008, 08:10 PM

Here's the neighbours house, also has 2 grey gums in the yard.

These particular grey gums I have found to be quite brittle and after storms more damaged than others.

Here's the one on the left, note the brick pillar's proximity, the concrete driveway, house, path, damaged trunk, turf and the buried trunk now.

And this is the right one, note the buried trunk, damaged trunk, turf, grade change retaining wall.

Eric Frei · 17th January 2008, 08:19 PM

We're in the backyard now and taking note of the ironbark against the thatched roof hut, it's tall alright.

What you cant see is that 2 drainage trenches have been dug either side of that tree within 2m as well. Both properties back onto a creek and drain into them. One trench is 90mm storm water, the other is some serious concrete drain from the street.

Pay attention to this long section of trunk.

In these next 2 pics cop a load of the crack going the entire distance, lordy removing the top off that one, be careful! Interesting part here is it's protected and to make matters worse the tree trunk is on the fence-line so it's co-owned as well. The neighbour on the further side is a tree hugger and wont let it go, the council says it's protected but the BS is going on.

Eric Frei · 17th January 2008, 08:26 PM

Now we are looking at the spotty gum just in front of the ironbark, yeah the leaning thing with a big dead stick coming out of it.

It almost reaches the house, tight yard and couldn't fit the whole tree into the pic but this shot gives you the idea.

And here's a shot of the trunk and one of those drains.

azrael · 17th January 2008, 08:43 PM

The light poles have got it better than the trees.
There'll be plenty of work for you later with that planning disaster....years and years of work.
What a disgrace. It doesnt matter how may LEP's apply to a site ...if the basics of Tree Protection and appropriate development offsets are not adopted (or enforced) then ... well ... INCOMPATIBILITIES...which could have been easily foreseen.
There's something definitely wrong with the approval process up there.

Eric Frei · 17th January 2008, 08:53 PM

You telling me, like I said over and over ....

You hardly have to look at the tree just what they done around it. And what's the point of protected trees if you just trash them anyway. What CRZ? And who'd be deciding what's good and what's shit? No-one, or a thorough idiot.

Sean Freeman · 17th January 2008, 09:00 PM

I'd be asking council for records of the VMP's for those trees when the development was put in...there would have to be some.

Problem is no matter how good your consultant is and the VMP they write once the development begins who is to police it?
Sure you could go round and keep an eye on things...if you lived nextdoor! but trying to do that with 100 sites spread from Nerang to Mogill!!!!! No chance. So we rely on the developer and council to implement the recommendations and track the works...frankly it doesn't work out for the trees at all.

Eric Frei · 17th January 2008, 09:12 PM

Which is why I wrote this in the Anne Frank thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

I'm sure other places, cities etc have significant trees on registers and they get bi-annual or annual check ups.

The issue seems to be that the trigger for arborist action is often a negative one, when things are going bad, the tree failing, losing branches etc.

Whilst it may be hard to check every tree every year you'd certainly expect that significant trees be checked. What if the significant trees reside on private properties? ... does happen. I know that locally I have attended to properties to quote the removal of a tree. I usually try to check on the internet but many times end up calling the council to discover a Significant Landscape Tree Protection Order (SLT VPO). These are singled out trees, that protection order is not a blanket one for the city.

The owners sometimes look surprised and sometimes disgruntled for various reasons.

The issue is that those trees aren't cared for or reported upon, and sometimes people dont even know they have them!

If there was a pro-active approach where these trees were inspected, the longivity and safety would increase. However at the moment they get nothing, some of the trees will also get mistreated so they die in the hope the approval for removal then goes through.

I think an easily accessible website for all Significant trees would be a start, a site that provides details and when last inspected and what was on that inspection. Of course that will bring all sorts of issues out however if looking after significant trees is the goal then you need a plan.

A pro-active approach is what cities need to implement. It's caring for healthy trees that matters to, parking your tinnie there and chaining it up to the trunk whilst the bungs have been pulled and you wash it out isn't the best thing for a tree.

And you can see that this is what I call "token" tree protection ... looks good politically and long term it's tripe.

azrael · 18th January 2008, 06:39 AM

Lobby for change, report all inappropriate incidents...bring tree issues to the forefront of attention.

In my experience, Council Officers will have NO clue about whats happening unless a complaint or report is lodged.

Ask for an opportunity to comment on LEP's when thay are in draft...and watch Council's DRAFT public documents section, get to know the planning staff at Council...let them know you see the blatant disregard of trees that occurs in this LGA...and that it reflects badly on them (and Tree Management Policies).

Write letters..and more letters...not just complaints... but solutions and ways to improve (long-term) outcomes for trees. All trees need to be considered at DA stage....and unfortunately some trees just have to go for new subdivision to occur.... It's the role of the Consultant Arborist to clearly define the trees that are inappropriate to keep....so Council can either accept of reject the application...based on this transparent disclosure. (Otherwise there will be immediate and future incompatibilities).
Would Council have liability re: tree failures in the case observed ... after-all, these developments were approved???

Quintrex · 18th January 2008, 11:15 AM

Azrael, I'm sure council won't wear any responsibility.
This is a classic case of "Tree Preservation" instead of "Tree Management".
Ekka, Is the cultural damage regarded as a breach of the tree Protection order in this case? If not, it should be IMO.

azrael · 18th January 2008, 01:11 PM

Ekka.....The area has a WAV, SNV and SLT VPO's, basically all trees are protected regardless of size.......

Sorry.....what's WAV...?
SNV= Signif. Native Veg.
SLT= Signif. Landscpe Tree
VPO= Veg. Protection Order
WAV=????

Eric Frei · 18th January 2008, 02:19 PM

Waterways vegetation protectection ... if there's creeks or rivers this will cover even weeds and grass, the toughest of the lot, all houses back onto a creek.

Waterways can also be simple drain style things, basically if you are within cooeee of a waterway style thing you better ring and check. Idea being that any vegetation removal can damage eco system and create run off and silt up waterways, toughest VPO that one.

The pics in this thread are from nearby, the trees here were also under the same 3 VPO's, see for yourself what happened. Same shit different day.

http://www.treeworld.info/f8/ekka-s-....html#post8949

azrael · 18th January 2008, 07:26 PM

Ok...I'm very familiar with requirements here under the Rivers & Foreshores Improvement Act, with covers anything within 40m of a creek.

I've done a number of Riparian Vegetation Management Plans (for small properties). They fall under Integrated Development....DNR (Dept Natural Resources) is the principal agency administering the Act.

DNR stipulate the no-development buffer (Riparian Buffer Area), and all relevant plans are referred to them from Council..if satisfied, a Permit is issued for the consented works. A significant bond is retained for 3 years, and improvement works in the buffer area are inspected by DNR before the bond is released.

Can vary between full-on civil works and total re-construction of vegetation profiles, or just simply a weed management plan.

Eric Frei · 30th January 2008, 05:03 PM

The tree in the pics beneath was retained and is protected.

Now, have a look at what's happened around it.

Also, no canopy is over any house roof, not too bad a spot for a tree to end up in an urban yard, but take a closer look at what happened around it.

The tree is a scribbly gum, approx 800mm DBH and Approx 28m tall.

Eric Frei · 31st January 2008, 01:02 PM

I take it the pink ribbon means it stays.

27th July 2007, 09:09 AM	#1
Eric Frei Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10,775	Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? Is anyone aware of any standards on this subject? I heard a rumour that the new AS4373 was going to cover it but that's not the case. __________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist \| Project Arborist

17th January 2008, 08:02 PM	#5
Eric Frei Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10,775	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? This is a relatively new estate. The area has a WAV, SNV and SLT VPO's, basically all trees are protected regardless of size. I'll run through the pics of what these trendy burbs are up to. This one is off Fig Tree Pocket rd in Brisbane, not that far from the city, maybe 10kms tops. Typical narrow streets you have to park on the grass so others can get by, doing a U-Turn with truck or trailer etc is a right bugger and you will be looking for two driveways opposite each other to do it or a decent reversing job. Now pay attention to the grey gum (euc major) by the trailer. Note the grade change, hard landscape surfaces, building and lawn. Looking at the canopy you note the lower collar cuts of work on the trunk however take note (not of the plane but couldn't miss that opportunity) of the dead wood, loads of it. Here's a side on look at the codominant union, nice elephant ears. In the 2nd pic above this was around where the top of the light pole was. And now you'll get 2 pics showing both sides of that codominant union. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist \| Project Arborist

17th January 2008, 08:10 PM	#6
Eric Frei Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10,775	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? Here's the neighbours house, also has 2 grey gums in the yard. These particular grey gums I have found to be quite brittle and after storms more damaged than others. Here's the one on the left, note the brick pillar's proximity, the concrete driveway, house, path, damaged trunk, turf and the buried trunk now. And this is the right one, note the buried trunk, damaged trunk, turf, grade change retaining wall. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist \| Project Arborist

17th January 2008, 08:19 PM	#7
Eric Frei Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10,775	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? We're in the backyard now and taking note of the ironbark against the thatched roof hut, it's tall alright. What you cant see is that 2 drainage trenches have been dug either side of that tree within 2m as well. Both properties back onto a creek and drain into them. One trench is 90mm storm water, the other is some serious concrete drain from the street. Pay attention to this long section of trunk. In these next 2 pics cop a load of the crack going the entire distance, lordy removing the top off that one, be careful! Interesting part here is it's protected and to make matters worse the tree trunk is on the fence-line so it's co-owned as well. The neighbour on the further side is a tree hugger and wont let it go, the council says it's protected but the BS is going on. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist \| Project Arborist

17th January 2008, 08:26 PM	#8
Eric Frei Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10,775	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? Now we are looking at the spotty gum just in front of the ironbark, yeah the leaning thing with a big dead stick coming out of it. It almost reaches the house, tight yard and couldn't fit the whole tree into the pic but this shot gives you the idea. And here's a shot of the trunk and one of those drains. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist \| Project Arborist

27th July 2007, 11:37 AM	#2
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,129	Have a feeling about 12months back there was a request for input into the commitee sitting to draw up the draft standard Tree protection on construction sites...have heard nothing since, but thats not surprising can take up to 2yrs to even get to the draft position.....it will be a clone of the British standard ?Trees in. relation to Construction - Recommendation ? (B.S. 5837 2005)

28th July 2007, 05:47 AM	#3
pomme Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: england Posts: 241	great in theory but you need to get the builders to accept it and the planners to enforce it. unfortunatly a situation that rarely happens

17th January 2008, 08:43 PM	#9
azrael Former Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Earth Australia Posts: 242	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? The light poles have got it better than the trees. There'll be plenty of work for you later with that planning disaster....years and years of work. What a disgrace. It doesnt matter how may LEP's apply to a site ...if the basics of Tree Protection and appropriate development offsets are not adopted (or enforced) then ... well ... INCOMPATIBILITIES...which could have been easily foreseen. There's something definitely wrong with the approval process up there.

17th January 2008, 08:53 PM	#10
Eric Frei Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10,775	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? You telling me, like I said over and over .... You hardly have to look at the tree just what they done around it. And what's the point of protected trees if you just trash them anyway. What CRZ? And who'd be deciding what's good and what's shit? No-one, or a thorough idiot. __________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist \| Project Arborist

17th January 2008, 09:00 PM	#11
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 2,129	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? I'd be asking council for records of the VMP's for those trees when the development was put in...there would have to be some. Problem is no matter how good your consultant is and the VMP they write once the development begins who is to police it? Sure you could go round and keep an eye on things...if you lived nextdoor! but trying to do that with 100 sites spread from Nerang to Mogill!!!!! No chance. So we rely on the developer and council to implement the recommendations and track the works...frankly it doesn't work out for the trees at all.

18th January 2008, 06:39 AM	#13
azrael Former Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Earth Australia Posts: 242	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? Lobby for change, report all inappropriate incidents...bring tree issues to the forefront of attention. In my experience, Council Officers will have NO clue about whats happening unless a complaint or report is lodged. Ask for an opportunity to comment on LEP's when thay are in draft...and watch Council's DRAFT public documents section, get to know the planning staff at Council...let them know you see the blatant disregard of trees that occurs in this LGA...and that it reflects badly on them (and Tree Management Policies). Write letters..and more letters...not just complaints... but solutions and ways to improve (long-term) outcomes for trees. All trees need to be considered at DA stage....and unfortunately some trees just have to go for new subdivision to occur.... It's the role of the Consultant Arborist to clearly define the trees that are inappropriate to keep....so Council can either accept of reject the application...based on this transparent disclosure. (Otherwise there will be immediate and future incompatibilities). Would Council have liability re: tree failures in the case observed ... after-all, these developments were approved???

18th January 2008, 11:15 AM	#14
Quintrex Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 764	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? Azrael, I'm sure council won't wear any responsibility. This is a classic case of "Tree Preservation" instead of "Tree Management". Ekka, Is the cultural damage regarded as a breach of the tree Protection order in this case? If not, it should be IMO. __________________ Heightmaster

18th January 2008, 01:11 PM	#15
azrael Former Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Earth Australia Posts: 242	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? Ekka.....The area has a WAV, SNV and SLT VPO's, basically all trees are protected regardless of size....... Sorry.....what's WAV...? SNV= Signif. Native Veg. SLT= Signif. Landscpe Tree VPO= Veg. Protection Order WAV=????

18th January 2008, 02:19 PM	#16
Eric Frei Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10,775	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? Waterways vegetation protectection ... if there's creeks or rivers this will cover even weeds and grass, the toughest of the lot, all houses back onto a creek. Waterways can also be simple drain style things, basically if you are within cooeee of a waterway style thing you better ring and check. Idea being that any vegetation removal can damage eco system and create run off and silt up waterways, toughest VPO that one. The pics in this thread are from nearby, the trees here were also under the same 3 VPO's, see for yourself what happened. Same shit different day. http://www.treeworld.info/f8/ekka-s-....html#post8949 __________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist \| Project Arborist

18th January 2008, 07:26 PM	#17
azrael Former Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Earth Australia Posts: 242	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? Ok...I'm very familiar with requirements here under the Rivers & Foreshores Improvement Act, with covers anything within 40m of a creek. I've done a number of Riparian Vegetation Management Plans (for small properties). They fall under Integrated Development....DNR (Dept Natural Resources) is the principal agency administering the Act. DNR stipulate the no-development buffer (Riparian Buffer Area), and all relevant plans are referred to them from Council..if satisfied, a Permit is issued for the consented works. A significant bond is retained for 3 years, and improvement works in the buffer area are inspected by DNR before the bond is released. Can vary between full-on civil works and total re-construction of vegetation profiles, or just simply a weed management plan. Last edited by azrael; 18th January 2008 at 07:27 PM. Reason: spelling

30th January 2008, 05:03 PM	#18
Eric Frei Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10,775	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? The tree in the pics beneath was retained and is protected. Now, have a look at what's happened around it. Also, no canopy is over any house roof, not too bad a spot for a tree to end up in an urban yard, but take a closer look at what happened around it. The tree is a scribbly gum, approx 800mm DBH and Approx 28m tall. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist \| Project Arborist

31st January 2008, 01:02 PM	#19
Eric Frei Admin - Australia's most prominant Arborist - prev Ekka Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10,775	Re: Tree Protection on Development Sites, are there any Australian Standards? I take it the pink ribbon means it stays. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist \| Project Arborist

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