Top handle trouble.

arbdog · 28th August 2007, 06:07 AM

About 6 months ago my ms200t decieded to seize up on me. The saw was only 2-2 1/2 years old, and no it was nothing to do with incorrect mix of fuel/oil. At this time the was some bad petrol going around the u.k wich was causing engines to run hotter and burning cats out on cars. The saw was replaced that same day and has sat in the shed waiting to be repaired ever since. On the off chance i gave it a pull yesterday and its unseized itself , it fires then dies and has little compression compared to the new one. Without stripping it down I wont know but does it sound like rings? Has any one had this problem?

Ekka · 28th August 2007, 06:16 AM

Never had any probs like that but does sound like rings.

For there to be no compression it's either rings, hole in piston, massive grooves down bore.

Take the plug out and get the sunlight right and have a look in there, you soon see something.

arbdog · 28th August 2007, 06:29 AM

Will do, I know the saw had done a bit of work! Do they normally wear out that quick. Iwas my first stihl top handle and it was used near enough daily. All our other saws are stihl and seem to last forever with just replacement of chains, bars and sprockets. Could the funny fuel cause the problem? It was the only saw fueled up off that batch and the rest got disposed of. Is it a straight forward job to refit piston/rings and barrel.

Ekka · 28th August 2007, 06:47 AM

I have a ms200T nearly 7 years old now, bogged up multiple times due to palm corrosion still goes!

Never ever use fuel with ethanol in it.

Refit piston etc, no idea, never done one but give it a go.

when my 46 was 9 months old it crapped out bad, real bad. The rings failed and a piece of ring got stuck between the exhaust port and the piston ... stopped the saw dead, rather erie sound going from 13.5K revs to stop in a cut.

The force was so great cracked the rod and broke the crankshaft.

I was spewing and bit upset with Stihl. Now back then Stihl only had 3 months warranties on pro saws (true!) but they honoured the warranty and sent it to Melbourne, totally rebuilt it and I have it today and goes hard.

It was a rare failure and "one of those things", they repaired it under goodwill.

What's this got to do with you?

Plenty, most saw shops here would BS you about the repair costs and talk you into another saw ... strip it and fix it, or I'll pay the freight to get it here and use it! I need chasis for my saws, the engines are great.

arbdog · 28th August 2007, 07:19 AM

When i get a chance i'll strip it down and find the problem and use it as a back up saw, as our back up top handle is a little komatsu and using it to finish the job that day made me realise how the stihl is a far superior saw! ( I used it for two years as a main top handle....ouch! ). Its ?100 for barrel, piston, rings and gaskets so will be worth fixing even in the worst case sonario. So no nice try but you aint haaving it ! thanks for the advice!

pomme · 28th August 2007, 12:06 PM

get a pressure test done. make sure you have no air leaks first as this will make the saw run lean(hot) then if this is ok change the barrel and piston (easy job) but again then get a pressure test as a leaking gasket will cause you new piston to seize also. it sounds like the origonal seizure was down to heat as once cool you could pull it over unlikely to be fuel unless the 2stroke couldnt bond to the petrol this was a problem years ago when unleaded first appeared on the forecourts as the the oil bonded to the lead and would seperate out in the tank an cause seizures

TrevMcRev · 29th August 2007, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pomme

get a pressure test done. make sure you have no air leaks first as this will make the saw run lean(hot) then if this is ok change the barrel and piston (easy job) but again then get a pressure test as a leaking gasket will cause you new piston to seize also. it sounds like the origonal seizure was down to heat as once cool you could pull it over unlikely to be fuel unless the 2stroke couldnt bond to the petrol this was a problem years ago when unleaded first appeared on the forecourts as the the oil bonded to the lead and would seperate out in the tank an cause seizures

Good advice from pomme there. Ive also heard of 2stroke not mixing well with Premium ulp.

arbdog · 30th August 2007, 12:41 PM

Going to get my mates pressure gauge before i take her apart. Will let you know the problem. Cheers pomme!

pomme · 31st August 2007, 01:43 AM

no worries. make sure you put a strip of rubber over the exhaust port and re tighten the exhaust to get a decent seal. .test pressure( pump up) first before you test with suction as if the crank seals have gone you can pull the worn seals back onto the crank and give a false test. 0.5 bar is the highest pressure to use, any higher and you risk damaging good seals.it should hold pressure for a reasonable time if you do have a leak it will be evident straight away.then use a pump spray with washing liquid solution.
if your mate has the stihl pressure tester it will come with all the necessary blanking plates.GOOD LUCK

28th August 2007, 06:07 AM	#1 (permalink)
arbdog Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: england Posts: 101	Top handle trouble. About 6 months ago my ms200t decieded to seize up on me. The saw was only 2-2 1/2 years old, and no it was nothing to do with incorrect mix of fuel/oil. At this time the was some bad petrol going around the u.k wich was causing engines to run hotter and burning cats out on cars. The saw was replaced that same day and has sat in the shed waiting to be repaired ever since. On the off chance i gave it a pull yesterday and its unseized itself , it fires then dies and has little compression compared to the new one. Without stripping it down I wont know but does it sound like rings? Has any one had this problem?

28th August 2007, 06:16 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Never had any probs like that but does sound like rings. For there to be no compression it's either rings, hole in piston, massive grooves down bore. Take the plug out and get the sunlight right and have a look in there, you soon see something. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

28th August 2007, 06:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	I have a ms200T nearly 7 years old now, bogged up multiple times due to palm corrosion still goes! Never ever use fuel with ethanol in it. Refit piston etc, no idea, never done one but give it a go. when my 46 was 9 months old it crapped out bad, real bad. The rings failed and a piece of ring got stuck between the exhaust port and the piston ... stopped the saw dead, rather erie sound going from 13.5K revs to stop in a cut. The force was so great cracked the rod and broke the crankshaft. I was spewing and bit upset with Stihl. Now back then Stihl only had 3 months warranties on pro saws (true!) but they honoured the warranty and sent it to Melbourne, totally rebuilt it and I have it today and goes hard. It was a rare failure and "one of those things", they repaired it under goodwill. What's this got to do with you? Plenty, most saw shops here would BS you about the repair costs and talk you into another saw ... strip it and fix it, or I'll pay the freight to get it here and use it! I need chasis for my saws, the engines are great. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

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28th August 2007, 06:29 AM	#3 (permalink)
arbdog Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: england Posts: 101	Will do, I know the saw had done a bit of work! Do they normally wear out that quick. Iwas my first stihl top handle and it was used near enough daily. All our other saws are stihl and seem to last forever with just replacement of chains, bars and sprockets. Could the funny fuel cause the problem? It was the only saw fueled up off that batch and the rest got disposed of. Is it a straight forward job to refit piston/rings and barrel.

28th August 2007, 07:19 AM	#5 (permalink)
arbdog Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: england Posts: 101	When i get a chance i'll strip it down and find the problem and use it as a back up saw, as our back up top handle is a little komatsu and using it to finish the job that day made me realise how the stihl is a far superior saw! ( I used it for two years as a main top handle....ouch! ). Its ?100 for barrel, piston, rings and gaskets so will be worth fixing even in the worst case sonario. So no nice try but you aint haaving it ! thanks for the advice!

28th August 2007, 12:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
pomme Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: england Posts: 220	get a pressure test done. make sure you have no air leaks first as this will make the saw run lean(hot) then if this is ok change the barrel and piston (easy job) but again then get a pressure test as a leaking gasket will cause you new piston to seize also. it sounds like the origonal seizure was down to heat as once cool you could pull it over unlikely to be fuel unless the 2stroke couldnt bond to the petrol this was a problem years ago when unleaded first appeared on the forecourts as the the oil bonded to the lead and would seperate out in the tank an cause seizures

30th August 2007, 12:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
arbdog Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: england Posts: 101	Going to get my mates pressure gauge before i take her apart. Will let you know the problem. Cheers pomme!

31st August 2007, 01:43 AM	#9 (permalink)
pomme Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: england Posts: 220	no worries. make sure you put a strip of rubber over the exhaust port and re tighten the exhaust to get a decent seal. .test pressure( pump up) first before you test with suction as if the crank seals have gone you can pull the worn seals back onto the crank and give a false test. 0.5 bar is the highest pressure to use, any higher and you risk damaging good seals.it should hold pressure for a reasonable time if you do have a leak it will be evident straight away.then use a pump spray with washing liquid solution. if your mate has the stihl pressure tester it will come with all the necessary blanking plates.GOOD LUCK