Todays work on a storm uprooted pine

Ekka · 23rd April 2008, 11:10 PM

TreeDimensional spotted this.

But I dunno, he hasn't posted it yet so I will.

Check it out, could have been a bad barber chair if you felled it parallel to that crack.

blair duncanson · 23rd April 2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

Okay i'll try and explain it,when cutting you might notice the cut starting to close,pull the saw out throttle it up and plunge it at full throttle back into the cut and while cutting pull it most of the ways out and pluncge it back in,keep doing this until the cut is completed.It works pretty good espically when i forget to make wedges.

Does this work all the time, so never need wedges.? Interested in how this works.

blair duncanson · 23rd April 2008, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

TreeDimensional spotted this.

But I dunno, he hasn't posted it yet so I will.

Check it out, could have been a bad barber chair if you felled it parallel to that crack.

Aye, it does not need to be a leaner to barberchair!

Therrin · 24th April 2008, 05:12 AM

However, TD made the claim that it started out as *two* seperate trees that grew together. I think instead it formed a union at some point which grew together. Because you see no evidence of the two sets of growths in any of the rounds further down towards the base. Only in the ones below that union that I cut out.

newguy18 · 24th April 2008, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blair duncanson

Does this work all the time, so never need wedges.? Interested in how this works.

After i got used to doing it i never needed wedges to hold open a cut.Only use them for felling.

Therrin · 24th April 2008, 06:09 AM

NG,

if a fallen tree in lying partially embedded in the ground, trying to keep the kerf open by forcefully plunging the bar in and out of the cut only puts alot of pressure on the bar.

I tried something like what you were talking about yesterday to try to figure it out, and I came up with a pretty significant feedback.

Keep in mind that the section averages a diameter of 44 inches, and the saw's bar is only 25" long. You cut from one side, and then from the other. However, when you start agressively plunging the bar into the kerf, the nose of the 25" long bar (which doesn't extend all the way through the log) starts slamming into the wood that's still left on the other side of the kerf, or towards the bottom of it, and causes self-induced kickback.

Not only this, but as the log is partially embedded in the ground, forcefully stabbing in different directions in order to try to keep the kerf from closing up only makes you stab the tip out through into the ground and dull the chain.

I think it's a "method" you might have found through lack of finesse and patience, but in the end, it only puts excessive pressure on the bar, greatly increases kickback, and dulls the chain.

Wedging is really not difficult, and takes very little time. I keep the wedges and hammer sitting on the log about a foot from each cut. So I just reach over and slide a wedge in, tap it, keep cutting, then switch sides, cut a little, wedge, tap and keep going all the way from there. After that the round pops off just a little and doesn't stay wedged close to the bar.

I think wedging is a better, safer method. Albeit, it will take a couple more seconds and a little more thinking.

newguy18 · 24th April 2008, 06:15 AM

Its not as hard on the bar as you think.By all means do whats comfortable to you but as for me i just don't use wedges while i'm bucking.

treevet · 24th April 2008, 07:51 PM

You will when you get stuck.

newguy18 · 24th April 2008, 08:14 PM

treevet,you understand the concepts of reaming don't you?since using it i haven't needed wedges and i've been bucking where the top is closed up tight,the reaming action keeps what your cutting open.

treevet · 24th April 2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

treevet,you understand the concepts of reaming don't you?since using it i haven't needed wedges and i've been bucking where the top is closed up tight,the reaming action keeps what your cutting open.

Yeah Bill, I understood your earlier post however my guess is you can still get stuck as your reaction cannot be as fast as the movement of wood under pressure no matter how quick your reflexes are. I cut by feel and sensing always but sometimes wedges are the only way IMO.

Ekka · 24th April 2008, 09:25 PM

I think if you are frequently cutting up on the ground fallen trees and reckon you dont get the bar stuck you are a bull shit artist, happens to everyone.

The tree is torqued, twisted and a mess, you think you're reading the cuts well but then something twists or moves, happens to everyone ... yes the new guys more often than the old but rather than yank on the saw trying get it out just tap a wedge in.

With the plunging technique of which you speak NG do realise that the reason the bar is getting stiuck is the wood is closing the kerf as you cut it.

I liken it to the compression on a palms head, rather than bore cut it and do the bore wing cut you'd be plunging it till eventually through ... there are better ways. One is multiple cuts so the wood closure isn't all on one kerf.

NG, whilst I admire your tenacity with this I do feel you like to get stuck with practices that are at the bottom of the evolutionary scale. We all started out where you are, plunging, yanking saws out, no wedges, no multiple cuts etc but for $10 a wedge is far better than fixing broken mounts on saws or falling ass over tit when it comes out and you trip on a branch backwards.

I know the ms660 getting stuck in a cut can shoot straight out and back at you like bitch, be careful, wedges are your cheap friends, if you dont have one cut one from the tree.

Therrin · 24th April 2008, 09:38 PM

The stihl orange wedges you see in the pics were only $5 apiece. I picked up three of them. They really are pretty cheap.

And, it really doesn't take any huge amount of time to use them, I think anything that saves you and your equipment wear and tear is always a good deal.

Well I think I found someone who may want that 4' x 15' section of the log... there's an indian guy at a meeting I go to and he's interested in it for something. Hopefully it'll turn out and I won't have to chop it for firewood.

treevet · 24th April 2008, 09:47 PM

Yeah lots of times like I ve said in the past a seasoned hardwood twig that just fits in the cut in 2 strategic spots is all that is nec. Then you don t have to chase wedges under the piece or even worry about them.

Like Ekka said torque direction is so unpredictable and transient when under pressure that you gotta have a few cheap plastic wedges on hand. Back in the day all we had was metal splitting wedges for this purpose. I think that kick back Ekka mentions is when the pinch captures the kick back quadrant and unlike out of the cut when this happens not only do you not have time to react, you cannot see the situation arise and the contact happen. Be safe Bill.

newguy18 · 24th April 2008, 10:12 PM

I understand what yuor saying Ekka but reaming works well enough for me.Its like free falling wood or limbs in tight quarters,once you become adept at using the differnt cuts,you'll only rig them when you absolutly have to.I still carry wedges,i just don't use them for bucking.

quercus · 26th April 2008, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

I know the ms660 getting stuck in a cut can shoot straight out and back at you like bitch...

No doubt about that... especially when the top of the bar is pressed first... A friend of mine broke a rib in that kind of situation but it was with an 880.

newguy18 · 26th April 2008, 07:50 AM

it really sucks when it busts you in the groin.

24th April 2008, 05:12 AM	#29 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,255	Re: Todays work on a storm uprooted pine However, TD made the claim that it started out as two seperate trees that grew together. I think instead it formed a union at some point which grew together. Because you see no evidence of the two sets of growths in any of the rounds further down towards the base. Only in the ones below that union that I cut out. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

24th April 2008, 06:09 AM	#31 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,255	Re: Todays work on a storm uprooted pine NG, if a fallen tree in lying partially embedded in the ground, trying to keep the kerf open by forcefully plunging the bar in and out of the cut only puts alot of pressure on the bar. I tried something like what you were talking about yesterday to try to figure it out, and I came up with a pretty significant feedback. Keep in mind that the section averages a diameter of 44 inches, and the saw's bar is only 25" long. You cut from one side, and then from the other. However, when you start agressively plunging the bar into the kerf, the nose of the 25" long bar (which doesn't extend all the way through the log) starts slamming into the wood that's still left on the other side of the kerf, or towards the bottom of it, and causes self-induced kickback. Not only this, but as the log is partially embedded in the ground, forcefully stabbing in different directions in order to try to keep the kerf from closing up only makes you stab the tip out through into the ground and dull the chain. I think it's a "method" you might have found through lack of finesse and patience, but in the end, it only puts excessive pressure on the bar, greatly increases kickback, and dulls the chain. Wedging is really not difficult, and takes very little time. I keep the wedges and hammer sitting on the log about a foot from each cut. So I just reach over and slide a wedge in, tap it, keep cutting, then switch sides, cut a little, wedge, tap and keep going all the way from there. After that the round pops off just a little and doesn't stay wedged close to the bar. I think wedging is a better, safer method. Albeit, it will take a couple more seconds and a little more thinking. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

24th April 2008, 06:15 AM	#32 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,632	Re: Todays work on a storm uprooted pine Its not as hard on the bar as you think.By all means do whats comfortable to you but as for me i just don't use wedges while i'm bucking. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

24th April 2008, 07:51 PM	#33 (permalink)
treevet Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Posts: 823	Re: Todays work on a storm uprooted pine You will when you get stuck.

24th April 2008, 08:14 PM	#34 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,632	Re: Todays work on a storm uprooted pine treevet,you understand the concepts of reaming don't you?since using it i haven't needed wedges and i've been bucking where the top is closed up tight,the reaming action keeps what your cutting open. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

24th April 2008, 09:25 PM	#36 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,606	Re: Todays work on a storm uprooted pine I think if you are frequently cutting up on the ground fallen trees and reckon you dont get the bar stuck you are a bull shit artist, happens to everyone. The tree is torqued, twisted and a mess, you think you're reading the cuts well but then something twists or moves, happens to everyone ... yes the new guys more often than the old but rather than yank on the saw trying get it out just tap a wedge in. With the plunging technique of which you speak NG do realise that the reason the bar is getting stiuck is the wood is closing the kerf as you cut it. I liken it to the compression on a palms head, rather than bore cut it and do the bore wing cut you'd be plunging it till eventually through ... there are better ways. One is multiple cuts so the wood closure isn't all on one kerf. NG, whilst I admire your tenacity with this I do feel you like to get stuck with practices that are at the bottom of the evolutionary scale. We all started out where you are, plunging, yanking saws out, no wedges, no multiple cuts etc but for $10 a wedge is far better than fixing broken mounts on saws or falling ass over tit when it comes out and you trip on a branch backwards. I know the ms660 getting stuck in a cut can shoot straight out and back at you like bitch, be careful, wedges are your cheap friends, if you dont have one cut one from the tree. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

24th April 2008, 09:38 PM	#37 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,255	Re: Todays work on a storm uprooted pine The stihl orange wedges you see in the pics were only $5 apiece. I picked up three of them. They really are pretty cheap. And, it really doesn't take any huge amount of time to use them, I think anything that saves you and your equipment wear and tear is always a good deal. Well I think I found someone who may want that 4' x 15' section of the log... there's an indian guy at a meeting I go to and he's interested in it for something. Hopefully it'll turn out and I won't have to chop it for firewood. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

24th April 2008, 09:47 PM	#38 (permalink)
treevet Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Posts: 823	Re: Todays work on a storm uprooted pine Yeah lots of times like I ve said in the past a seasoned hardwood twig that just fits in the cut in 2 strategic spots is all that is nec. Then you don t have to chase wedges under the piece or even worry about them. Like Ekka said torque direction is so unpredictable and transient when under pressure that you gotta have a few cheap plastic wedges on hand. Back in the day all we had was metal splitting wedges for this purpose. I think that kick back Ekka mentions is when the pinch captures the kick back quadrant and unlike out of the cut when this happens not only do you not have time to react, you cannot see the situation arise and the contact happen. Be safe Bill.

24th April 2008, 10:12 PM	#39 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,632	Re: Todays work on a storm uprooted pine I understand what yuor saying Ekka but reaming works well enough for me.Its like free falling wood or limbs in tight quarters,once you become adept at using the differnt cuts,you'll only rig them when you absolutly have to.I still carry wedges,i just don't use them for bucking. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

26th April 2008, 07:50 AM	#41 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,632	Re: Todays work on a storm uprooted pine it really sucks when it busts you in the groin. __________________ Have your say join us today.