Successful Hacks

JohN Dee · 28th April 2007, 05:53 AM

Well about a week or two ago we were driving down the road to get lunch and driving down we saw a tree company doing a land clear operation. The first bloke we saw was in a cherry picker - no harness, no hard hat, no eye protection. So we grabbed our lunch came back and sat across the road from them eating our lunch and taking photos.

I blurred all the rego plates and business details. This bloke owns two trucks, 1 chipper, 1 bobcat, 1 ewp and 5 stump grinders all ranging in size but can't afford a single hard hat or even a traffic cone? Successful hacks is what seem to be the case here, they've been around for 10 years or so scraping by (No safety regulations etc...)

When his bobcat was ripping this trunk off its hinge some bloke carrying his shopping walked right behind the bobcat!

Here are the pics:

This is the overview of their jobsite, public walking straight past, no bunting tape or even witches hats. The guy in the bobcat their has no eye/ear/head protection.

This is their other truck with their EWP, look around that stump - shid everywhere for the public to walk through.

That bloke cutting that stump has no eye or head protection, wearing short shorts and didn't use a single wedge to support his cut. The white thing on his head is a sun hat. The other bloke got that stumper off and was grinding the stump with no PPE while the other guy in the green stood right next to the stump/rotor watching.

That bloke on the bike was their for ages fart assing around behind the guy on the saw...

At first he was helping push the trunk with the bobcat, then when the bobcat broke it off its hinge he almost hit the guy in the green with it.

That's the guy that walked right behind as the bobcat tore the hinge and had started turning.

So that's it ^. Successful hacks working along side a busy main road.

Fairfield · 28th April 2007, 06:59 AM

Unreal ... Well hate to say it but same thing happens on the other side of the pound also. Cant count how many times I have seen opperations like that.

a_lopa · 28th April 2007, 09:00 PM

I know a similar guy he's doing quite well

Ekka · 28th April 2007, 11:34 PM

Bugger it, I gotta start hack'n!

JayD · 29th April 2007, 01:50 AM

True Ekka,makes you wonder why you bother, on a take down as long as it go's smoothly does it matter ??...of course it does...useing tried and proven techniques keep us safer than the ..HACKS...but have said this if they were wearing PPE and a little obvious work exclusion barriers we never would have picked them..so they stick out like the perverbial dogs B@@##s but they get away with it and as you know if any thing goes wrong we are all bundled together and judged by the way these untrained bozos operate wich is so unfair to the ones that comply to OH&S and workcover standards,me I will keep on improving myself and striving for a safe work place were ever it may be.
JayD

mdvaden · 29th April 2007, 09:45 AM

It's a new breed.

Arbor + culture is arboriculture.

These guys are a blend of "hazard" and "culture".

They are "Hazaculturists" - its the latest thing.

TrevMcRev · 29th April 2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdvaden

It's a new breed.

Arbor + culture is arboriculture.

These guys are a blend of "hazard" and "culture".

They are "Hazaculturists" - its the latest thing.

Well one day they might

be "Haz-beens"

jim1nz · 8th May 2007, 12:39 AM

I dont get it, dont they care for their own safety!? Obviously they dont care about others safety. Everyone moans about the rules and regs the bureaucrats place on us, but they have to to protect people from themselves!!!

JohN Dee · 8th May 2007, 12:49 AM

Jim, are there many hacks in NZ?

jim1nz · 8th May 2007, 01:19 AM

To be honest John there is not. There was a story regarding a hack that was also threatening people and they got done for it BIG time and jailed, ever since this it is not too bad. There is the odd one here and there but generally the tree work in NZ is great.

Ekka · 8th May 2007, 01:48 AM

NZ send them all here!

jim1nz · 8th May 2007, 01:49 AM

Piss off Ekka, they come straight from the Islands!

Sean Freeman · 8th May 2007, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohN Dee

Jim, are there many hacks in NZ?

I'd like to back up jim's answer with some insight from one of the best Arborists I know of in Oz Daniel Oaten originally from Wellington. He tells the story of coming to Oz to be with his lady and asking her over the phone to give the numbers of some Arb companies in Brissy (she was and still is in Ipswich) so she's looking through the book and says, no can't find anything under "A" no arborists, he says ok look under tree surgeon, she says no but there's heaps under tree lopper....he goes nuts (as you can imagine!!!) saying no surgeon, doctor specialist NOT LOPPER!!!, but when he came out there were non listed. He still can't get over guys having LOPPER signwritten on their trucks etc... As he says in NZ that would be like advertising that you are an idiot with no understanding or qualifications in Arb, completely incapable of looking after the clients trees!

Its funny how cultures so geographically close can be so dissimilar in this respect.

I don't want to speak for Daniel or make statements that maybe he would prefer not be said but I would like to add that I know in NZ Arborists working in the same locality are not in violent competition with each other rather they support and help each other, cover each others back when sickness or family commitments mean you are away for a time, share tha work load on bigger jobs...like I said a very different cultural outlook, one we should learn something from me thinks.

Ekka · 8th May 2007, 03:13 AM

Boa, the arb associations dont have any trouble at all accepting Tree Loppers.

Neither do the insurance companies, in fact on a recent ring around to many I asked if there was any difference in premium between qualified arborists and tree loppers ... nope, ya all lumped together and you pay the same premium as our ole mate in the home video taking out a pergola.

The issue here is severely ingrained to permanently etched into the psych of many, the media continually call us tree loppers. Take a look at the BCC thread and Rangitatas news article ... once again tree loppers commented on the tree.

If there's change to be made the first port of call is the associations, second the media lobbied by the associations.

Sean Freeman · 8th May 2007, 03:48 AM

I don't disagree that the QAA needs a kick start in that direction, but I also recognise that the QAA only survives as a going concern through the money generated by its membership camps etc... they are not going to turn away members nor alienate them. (Check some of my very earlier posts mate about Arb standards and regs in Qld, I'm not in the QAA for precisely those reasons) Other Arborists I have spoken to about this who are in QAA argue that things are changing slowly, and many of the earlier problems with certain individuals and their atitudes are no more.

Maybe its incumbant on me to join and change from within, but frankly I've enough on as it is with ISAAC and trying to change the attitude of numerous other professional bodies that directly impact on tree health in our urban communities.

jim1nz · 8th May 2007, 04:06 AM

Once again Boa, your dead right. I dont want to say its better here or there but it is most certainly different. As a general statement you could say we take a lot of pride in our work and in our trees. Arboriculture is a reasonably small industry in NZ, every body knows ever body, so ya hear of a lopper they are automatically on the outside.

We do look after each other, im a contractor and i hate working by myself. I get another local contractor to help me on jobs and he does the same when he gets work. Im lucky he has been a NZ climbing champ and is one the best all round arborists in NZ if not the best.

Thats the thing, the best get work and they deserve it, around here you know who is good.

JohN Dee · 23rd March 2008, 11:01 PM

Well it has almost been a year since our last post and the intial post. Alot more members have joined and I'd dare say that there are more Arborists, Horticulturalists, Tree loppers, Tree guys, Chainsaw guys and home owners that have joined, that participate and learn in here and we all get on as a community.

Over the last year I have seen an astonishing rate of: Successful hacks

But the latest one I'm posting about actually comes from former member Polly's neck of the woods - South Australia (SA)

Western Tree and Stump Removal, Garth Williams - Seacombe Gardens - HomeImprovementPages.com.au. I found this page going through that directory.

It's very brief and states a little bit of their business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Western Tree and Stump Removal

SERVICES

We offer free quotes & advice and have $20 million public liability insurance.

Tree Removal
Tree Pruning
Tree Surgery
Stump Grinding
Fully Qualified Arborist

Any tree problems"We can help You".

28th April 2007, 06:59 AM	#2 (permalink)
Fairfield Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bucks county Pa USA Posts: 72	Unreal ... Well hate to say it but same thing happens on the other side of the pound also. Cant count how many times I have seen opperations like that. __________________ Hi yes you know me I am B.A.M.F nice to meet you

28th April 2007, 09:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
a_lopa Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Drouin Posts: 877	I know a similar guy he's doing quite well __________________ Free Tree Industry Link Directory Drouin tree lopping, land clearing and stump removals

28th April 2007, 11:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Bugger it, I gotta start hack'n! __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

29th April 2007, 01:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
JayD Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 941	Hacks True Ekka,makes you wonder why you bother, on a take down as long as it go's smoothly does it matter ??...of course it does...useing tried and proven techniques keep us safer than the ..HACKS...but have said this if they were wearing PPE and a little obvious work exclusion barriers we never would have picked them..so they stick out like the perverbial dogs B@@##s but they get away with it and as you know if any thing goes wrong we are all bundled together and judged by the way these untrained bozos operate wich is so unfair to the ones that comply to OH&S and workcover standards,me I will keep on improving myself and striving for a safe work place were ever it may be. JayD

29th April 2007, 09:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
mdvaden Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 543	It's a new breed. Arbor + culture is arboriculture. These guys are a blend of "hazard" and "culture". They are "Hazaculturists" - its the latest thing. __________________ ____________________________________ Grove of Redwood TITANS Oregon BIGOOT trap

8th May 2007, 12:39 AM	#8 (permalink)
jim1nz Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tauranga, New Zealand Posts: 296	I dont get it, dont they care for their own safety!? Obviously they dont care about others safety. Everyone moans about the rules and regs the bureaucrats place on us, but they have to to protect people from themselves!!! __________________ SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE

8th May 2007, 12:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
JohN Dee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 751	Jim, are there many hacks in NZ? __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue

8th May 2007, 01:19 AM	#10 (permalink)
jim1nz Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tauranga, New Zealand Posts: 296	To be honest John there is not. There was a story regarding a hack that was also threatening people and they got done for it BIG time and jailed, ever since this it is not too bad. There is the odd one here and there but generally the tree work in NZ is great. __________________ SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE

8th May 2007, 01:48 AM	#11 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	NZ send them all here! __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

8th May 2007, 01:49 AM	#12 (permalink)
jim1nz Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tauranga, New Zealand Posts: 296	Piss off Ekka, they come straight from the Islands! __________________ SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE

8th May 2007, 03:13 AM	#14 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Boa, the arb associations dont have any trouble at all accepting Tree Loppers. Neither do the insurance companies, in fact on a recent ring around to many I asked if there was any difference in premium between qualified arborists and tree loppers ... nope, ya all lumped together and you pay the same premium as our ole mate in the home video taking out a pergola. The issue here is severely ingrained to permanently etched into the psych of many, the media continually call us tree loppers. Take a look at the BCC thread and Rangitatas news article ... once again tree loppers commented on the tree. If there's change to be made the first port of call is the associations, second the media lobbied by the associations. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

8th May 2007, 03:48 AM	#15 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	I don't disagree that the QAA needs a kick start in that direction, but I also recognise that the QAA only survives as a going concern through the money generated by its membership camps etc... they are not going to turn away members nor alienate them. (Check some of my very earlier posts mate about Arb standards and regs in Qld, I'm not in the QAA for precisely those reasons) Other Arborists I have spoken to about this who are in QAA argue that things are changing slowly, and many of the earlier problems with certain individuals and their atitudes are no more. Maybe its incumbant on me to join and change from within, but frankly I've enough on as it is with ISAAC and trying to change the attitude of numerous other professional bodies that directly impact on tree health in our urban communities. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

8th May 2007, 04:06 AM	#16 (permalink)
jim1nz Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tauranga, New Zealand Posts: 296	Once again Boa, your dead right. I dont want to say its better here or there but it is most certainly different. As a general statement you could say we take a lot of pride in our work and in our trees. Arboriculture is a reasonably small industry in NZ, every body knows ever body, so ya hear of a lopper they are automatically on the outside. We do look after each other, im a contractor and i hate working by myself. I get another local contractor to help me on jobs and he does the same when he gets work. Im lucky he has been a NZ climbing champ and is one the best all round arborists in NZ if not the best. Thats the thing, the best get work and they deserve it, around here you know who is good. __________________ SPEED ALWAYS FOLLOWS TECHNIQUE