Study options for Australians

Hili

Hi, My name is Michael Hili.
I am a 20 year old Melbournian, studying Arboriculture at Wiaikato Institute of technology (WINTEC) in Hamilton New Zealand. After completing a Diploma in Conservation and Land management I went into full time work for an arboricultural company based in East Melbourne. I worked there full time for a year. With a strong desire to become qualified in arboriculture I began to research schooling options. Due to a lack of confidence in what I found in Australia I looked abroad. And I am glad I have done so. After completing some summer schooling, I am now a few weeks into a one year full time course in which upon completion I will receive a level 4 Certificate with the option of going on to complete the diploma if I so choose. So far I have nothing but praise for the program at WINTEC. The content and structure is extremely practical and professional. With a great balance between practical and theoretical teaching. The campus perfectly located in the middle of the Hamilton gardens and the teaching is exceptional. With world class climbing teachers. I already feel like I have benefited immensely from making the move over here. It is a shame that there is no course structured like this in Melbourne. ?Tree World? is a great website and I will be calling on the facts page for useful links and the knowledge of the wealth of experienced arborists using the site. I also hope that other students world wide can actively use this page to discuss assignments and findings. I look forward to returning to Australian shores with the knowledge I gain throughout the year.

Drouin Tree Service

Interesting Michael,good luck with finishing your cert.

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Drouin Tree Services | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland | Landclearing Melbourne

Eric Frei

I know from the training that Jim1NZ discusses how detailed the courses are, I think he's done/doing L6 Advanced Diploma .

It is astonishing that NZ has the capacity to not only run but fill these courses, yet as you say over here they struggle. Maybe the profile of arb workers over there is a lot higher than the traditional "tree lopper" image pounded here??

Hamilton is a beaut spot too, not too big a town and not too small.

Enjoy the place, sure is beautiful scenery and good to have you here at TreeWorld ... put your knowledge to wise use and try to work where the knowledge is required not where your just another monkey on a saw.

Good arborists are in shortage, I wish you well.

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Graeme McMahon

Ekka

What's wrong with being a happy "monkey with a saw"?

Graeme

Eric Frei

All well and good if you have the work and you're a good monkey with the saw. In your case an extreme sawyer.

But when you go further down the educational track and get into reports, diagnosis, care etc you feel like sawing is just a part of the picture and a bit empty at times.

Look at Boa on this forum, does all sorts of stuff, diversity, now that suits some too and I know I do more TD's than PHC so I try to get more PHC type of work ... but also there's an inundation of monkeys on saws here and some are bloody useless but they undercut you.

Different to your pond though, a bid difference, not many capable of cutting what you do so you make good money on the saws.

Does that sort of answer it?

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Hili

The course is also not all theory based. There is allot of saw work done. It just informs new people entering the industry, like myself. How to properly use such an important tool correctly and how to maintain it. Im not preaching that a formal education is the best way, but like ekka pointed out im sure there are allot of "monkeys" out there not getting the best out of their saw or the correct methods in which to use it.

Graeme McMahon

Ekka

Your appraisal of the tree industry is general, and I accept that it is your opinion. The empty feeling that you note, possibly highlights some of the inherent differences between practitioners and academics. Each has a view of the future industry, and their part in it.

However, you have not really replied to my comment," what?s wrong with being a happy monkey". In this case I am referring to all climbers as monkeys in an endearing way. Personally, I do not single out learner climbers with labels, as I have not forgotten my humble beginnings 30 years ago.

I am lucky that I still enjoy going to work after this time. The arboriculture qualifications that are continually pushed may become the direction for some, while others will pursue a different balance with practical skills. The pursuit of happiness in your work would be a much better aim for all climbers, practitioner or academic.

Graeme

Sean Freeman

Hello Graeme, I totally agree with you that happiness in your work is the key to both enjoyment and success in your chosen field, I don't think there's anything wrong with being a "happy monkey" (given your clarification of just what you meant) however for me at 41 and with a body reflecting shall we say an exciting youth, I don't honestly have much more than maybe 5 more years of serious work climbing and cutting in me (hey I could be wrong but the arthritis etc tells me I'm not) I still enjoy going to work but have to face facts that consultancy is the only rational way to continue long term in this profession.

I'd also just reflect on what Shigo said when he was in Sydney about constantly developing greater understanding of tree biology and how we can use that to aid our management of urban trees it is after all what can help prevent accidents born out of mindless repetative tasks...dragging brush being the example he used in his talk.

So yes be a "happy monkey", enjoy and succeed in your work at whatever level but lets try to develop our own little part of this professional to foster that thirst for greater understanding. Unfortunately for many different reasons here in Oz the support we should be getting from the training and educational establishments is not there right now. As a professional qualification Arboriculture is marginalised to the point of almost being non existent.

I do think each of us who is a member of ISA or ISAAC or whatever professional body we might be affiliated to have a responsibility to take on some of the work in changing the current situation in our respective states and territories, I have been very guilty of complaining about my professional body not making a difference, whilst personnaly doing little else except complain. I'm taking steps to change that.

Sean

Eric Frei

Nothing obviously but let me run this by you.

You have to change ponds for this one, wear different shoes for a bit.

You are a good tree bloke, safe TD's, no damage, no injuries, no insurance claims, good repeat business but unfortunately the bulk of your work is TD's so you tend to cut yourself out of a job long term in a city as many times on your 2nd or 3rd trip to a client you cut down the last of the nuisence trees ... same with their relatives and friends.

New suburban development is flat panned cleared so no trees.

Older suburban inner city blocks also getting flat panned for townhouses and units.

The city has poor preservation laws so many of the other trees just get cut down no worries.

Now the volume of competitors quadruples in 10 years. On any given day you will see atleast 3 to 5 truck/chipper combo's. In your own suburb is 5 truck/chipper combos.

Some companies have decided to rent their gear out than try to cut a living out of the saturated market. You can get an 18" chipper for $100/hour.

The streets are being combed by doorknockers soliciting work, methodically the whole city suburbia is door knocked over and over.

But you are a very good tree bloke remember, got that great track record. Problem is you're doing it tougher year after year, your costs of getting jobs is rising whilst your profit margin is declining. Contract climbers are becoming more available and you are getting calls from ground workers coz many aren't getting full weeks work.

The public are inundated with cheap offers, door knockers are slowing your calls coz the customer doesn't even get to the phone. Add to this a general decline in tree work due to drought, water restrictions and pleasant non stormy weather for 3 years.

Pricing/quoting has become an attitude shift ...

from what the tree/you was worth

to what is the minimum you can put on it

to what's rock bottom I can put on it to get the work to exist

When the bills are piled on the fridge and the diary pages have lots of blanks and you know how good you are but would be making more money working for the council ... How happy is that monkey on a saw now?

Remember that movie with Danny DeVito, "you might really enjoy making buggy whips and be the best buggy whip maker but hey, no-ones buying anymore".

The difference is with only saw skills you have little opportunity to pick up other work where as educating to a level where monkeys on saws cant compete is a way of generating income. You still climb and cut pruning recs and thinning recs etc but diversification cant hurt you in this instance.

Had I have laid that ground work for diversification 5 years ago I would be much better off today, but I didn't have the qualifications 5 years ago, and up here it's extremely hard to get qualifications and training.

So when I say "just another monkey with a saw" I mean that by what I see here, entire 5 man crews without a helmet between them and not available in any of the vehicles!!! Unfortunately those guys are happy too thinking they're doing a great job and bragging as hard as you are. And to the customer who has never seen or had tree work done before they'll believe it.

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Graeme McMahon

Ekka

Wow, you must have a very dim view of our industry and future. I don't see it that way.

Graeme

Eric Frei

Dont confuse dim with real.

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