![]() |
| ||||||||||||||||||
![]() | ![]() | ![]() | ![]() | | ![]() | ![]() | ![]() | ![]() |
| |||||||
![]() |
| | LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
| | #1 | |
| Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bay Area Ca.
Posts: 355
| ???Quote:
| |
| | |
| | #2 |
| Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12,996
|
Increased logging, but what are the parameters? Sometimes there's adequate provisions, we'd need to see the plan. People protest on all sorts of issues, however there should be more data from them so us readers get the full picture. Gunns here wants to log Tasmania big time, seems both the people and govt approved it. Not saying right or wrong but there's a process. If they want support for their cause then people like us need to know what the underlying facts are and perhaps options.
__________________ |
| | |
| | #3 | |
| Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bay Area Ca.
Posts: 355
| Quote:
| |
| | |
| | #4 | |
| Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: PC
Posts: 176
| Quote:
__________________ parkcityarborist | |
| | |
| | #5 |
| Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bay Area Ca.
Posts: 355
|
One plan calls for 75% clearcut and 50% reduction in stream buffers. An EIS was done and claims an increase in species habitat. Not quite sure how that works. I guess they take a percentage of the harvest and build little lakeside owl condos for all the refugees. |
| | |
| | #6 |
| Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl
Posts: 4,948
|
or they leave a certain percentage of snags and trees for wildlife habitat.after seeing jerry's summary of the old growth redwoods,i agree a second growth forest is better.
__________________ Have your say join us today.![]() old schooler |
| | |
| | #7 |
| Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bay Area Ca.
Posts: 355
|
True NG, That's the plan, and the forestry loggers do an excellent job at leaving habitat that they can. By the way, Jerry is a True legend and his works are very informative. I seriously doubt that a second growth forest is doing the work of a second growth forest based on what I've seen. Live crown ratio, O layer, carbon uptake, snags... Talk to an arborist an ecologist or a biologist. These are things that I look for in a mature stand of trees. |
| | |
| | #8 |
| Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl
Posts: 4,948
|
Dude haveyou watched the 3 part summary?Just in case thats a no i'm posting it here. part 1 part 2 part 3
__________________ Have your say join us today.![]() old schooler |
| | |
| | #9 |
| Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bay Area Ca.
Posts: 355
|
Dude, Yes. I think this is about to be a recap of an earlier post. Xcept I ain't drinkin beer this time. ![]() I'll say it again. LCR, O layer, Carbon sequestration. These are the things to look for in a stand that has an increasingly important job to do. When you look up, how thick is the foliage? How close are the annual rings? |
| | |
| | #10 |
| Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: PC
Posts: 176
| Where conifers like spruce closes in and shades streams on the greenline, you lose sedges and deciduous vegetaton. Upland vegetation like currants can increase in the understory. It's possible you can have too much shade. You may want to partial cut or thin conifers on greenline but this should never be done on a "C" type stream! The objective for potential natural community is for 40% canopy cover. Openings will favor species like willows and sedges.
__________________ parkcityarborist |
| | |
| | #11 | ||||
| Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bay Area Ca.
Posts: 355
|
I know some folks that log and from what they say I'm not sure the WOPR tastes so good. Many in the industry find this plan to be deeply flawed and a throwback to boom and bust logging. What happened to the Northwest Forest Plan? ![]() Quote:
I think the part I don't agree with most is the loss of original trees and habitat. There's been alot of progress in forestry managment in recent years. Quote:
At this point roughly 82% of the forest in question and it's carbon resource has been removed. Sudden and repeated changing environmental conditions damage existing native forests systems that have adapted to over a very long period of time. Many of these unique old growth habitats are areas are isolated from similar habitats increasing pressure on endangered plants, animals and organisms. Clearcutting just doesn't make long term economic sense. Thinning still removes important carbon resource, can increase temp. erosion and decrease habitat for endangered species of plants, animals and organisms. Many mosses and lichens are lost when old growth are removed. There can be 20-50 species of crustose lichens present per acre. Some of these long lived organisms are an important nutrient source for many plants leaching N into the soil over a long period of time. Epiphytes are a big part of old growth habitat. The number of species of epiphytic bryophytes and macrolichens is typically 40-75 species in an acre plot. This often exceeds the number of flowering plant species in the same forest. IMO one of the biggest problems is a lack of standing deadwood and deadwood on the forest floor created by old growth trees. Deadwood is a slope stabilizer, it holds and cleans water, and releases nutrients. Deadwood is a home for animals and other organisms. Plants in the forest have very little N to begin with. Depletion of fixed nitrogen due to soil loss and a lack of deadwood can be a factor for all life in the forest, especially endangered plants. The facts? High canopy nutrient cycling is severely intrupted when old growth is removed due to increased exposure to light and wind. Another important point is that soil is not a renewable resource. It can take hundreds of years to create 1" of soil in these areas. Much of this is lost due to rain and snowmelt when trees and living roots are lost. Many fine absorbing roots are as small as 1mm and highly succeptable to sudden enviro. changes. Logging equipment and roads damage large structural roots and compacts soil causing erosion and mudslides not to mention making it difficult for any plants fine absorbing roots to regrow. This new plan will release millions of tons of extra carbon into the atmosphere. Thinning near a waterway will increase some understory plants but is that the best idea for the waterway? Many of OR. endangered plants and animals prefer ample shade, organic matter and moisture to thrive. I'm starting to think cutting more trees (an increase of 400%) and throwing away the NWFP sounds backwards. The Northwest Forest Plan was an admission that past logging was unsustainable. Seems pretty important to protect what little old forest remains and try to repair what has been destroyed. Quote:
Quote:
Plants have the ability to respond to low light conditions especially over a long period of time. Growth of some endangered ferns exposed to increased light are stunted, have less leaf area and a vertical growth habit. If I remember correctly this may affect reproduction. IMO even 40% still seems hard to agree with because because of the lack of research on endangered plants and light conditions. Some reports I've read state no difference in biomass with light exposure rates of 19-42%. Higher percentages of light can reduce biomass and adversely alter plant life cycles. Anyone got more info on this topic? I'll say it again, 82% of the PNW forests are gone... ![]() Some say 97% in CA. | ||||
| | |
| | #12 | |||
| Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: PC
Posts: 176
| Quote:
According to some old forestry notes, Old-growth characteristics are as follows: 1)Closed canopy 2)Very old trees* 3)Large snags and downed wood 4)A mosaic of vegetation types. Mosaic should mimic historical distribution of vegetation, resulting from frequent, low intensity fires prevalent before European settlement. This should include bona fide old growth, secondary growth as well as openings. *This classification can be a double-edge sword. Mgmt agencies' definition of old-growth may not be bona fide "old-growth". I think for the most part an absence of fire has created many of the problems land managers are facing today e.g. stepladder fuels, lack of nutrient cycling,canopy closure, build-up of fuels resulting in catastrophic fires etc. Man has done such a good job putting out fires, when in fact fire is an integral part of nature. Land managers will tell you that "clearcutting mimics fire" especially with shade intolerant species like Douglas Fir. Clearcut harvesting and fire are not the same. In addition to fire suppression, land managers should be prescribing fire. This amounts to 1-3% of the geographical area per year to mimic natural fire cycles. Quote:
Quote:
__________________ parkcityarborist | |||
| | |
| | #13 | |
| Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bay Area Ca.
Posts: 355
| Quote:
| |
| | |
![]() |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
| |
Similar Threads | ||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Oregon in the U.S.A. | mdvaden | Local law regs, start thread with County then State then Country | 7 | 12th May 2010 04:59 AM |
| Looking for a tree that will grow in Texas and Oregon, USA... | texastree | General Tree Chat | 1 | 29th April 2008 11:38 PM |
| Good 'ol days Logging Equipment | mdvaden | Non Tree Related chat | 2 | 11th January 2008 02:50 PM |
| 1st Underwater Mushrooms: here in Oregon | mdvaden | Non Tree Related chat | 8 | 30th November 2007 04:25 AM |
| Historic Artifact: Catalpa in Jacksonville, Oregon | mdvaden | General Tree Chat | 17 | 30th September 2007 12:31 PM |