Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees?

Bowani Siam · 16th May 2011, 06:10 PM

In reference to this thread started by Eric...

Classic neighbour drill and tree poisoning

How is it possible to stop/slow the rate of poison in a large tree, once it has taken effect?

I am wondering as this is seemingly a common occurrence. Can herbicide be flushed out? Is there some kind of compound that can reduce uptake of herbicide in trees after application? I found plenty of documentation on trialling herbicide inhibitors to allow for selective application to barley and wheat crops, however would this method be effective in a woody plant/dicot, especially one of size?

Bowani Siam · 16th May 2011, 06:18 PM

Ok here's another one.

Trees Accidentally Sprayed With Weed Killer Remedy | eHow.com

Interesting about the use of charcoal. Just like when you accidentally make an Ajax Marguerita.

Removing the affected soil seems obvious, however this seems to only apply to cases where you have inadvertently dosed the tree and have time before the poison can take effect and damage becomes evident.

But severing the root system? Hmm...... I'll see what else I can find..

Eric Frei · 16th May 2011, 07:01 PM

The tree that was poisoned in that thread was not soil drenched or foliage sprayed, it was drilled.

We all have seen how damage to say a northern root affects the northern branch, to some degree there is a correlation between root and canopy orientation. It may not be perfectly linear but there is some correlation.

Now drilling also means a lot of the poison is at the bottom of the hole and goes into heartwood which other than rays has little vascular mobility for the poison.

Heavy watering can dilute the chemical and maybe make it less affective, I say maybe as I do not have 100% proof and species also vary, for example I have poisoned ficus stumps and they live on.

I then figured that any remaining parts including roots that were not affected could be boosted for nutrient/water uptake using microbial products including root extender.

In addition the tree was not mulched so I suggested that. The idea is to stack as many possible advantages in the tree's favour as possible. Now Jacs do go dormant and winter is here, some are starting to lose their leaves so this could be good or bad. It could mean the tree is shutting down and translocating resources to the roots for winter and the success of our treatment limited, plus fungi and microbes don't like the cold much. It could mean the poison is concentrated in the root system too. Either way with this treatment the tree might bounce back in spring.

Another way of slowing the movement of poison could be to slow down photosynthesis (transpiration and xylem flow), so using an anti-transpirant on foliage should help, but this Jac was a bit beyond that.

Bowani Siam · 16th May 2011, 07:39 PM

Interesting, Mycorrhiza Fungi in-a-Can!

Yes, there is a definite link between orientation of wound and effect. Seen this a few times, especially when roots on one side have been cut away for a path or some other amenity. Loss of vigour all up one side.

Speaking of vascular mobility, would it then be correct to say that the most effective way to poison a large tree is foliar application, even though this is not in any way practical? By that I mean if it results in a more rapid uptake of herbicide, therefore reducing treatment time? (I guess it would, as foliar application is most effective on a small scale.)

Using a foliar anti-transpirant to slow uptake would be as difficult on a tree that size as it would to apply poison to the foliage in the first place.

How long would it be before that particular Jacaranda had been poisoned to the time the damage became as apparent?

If that side of the tree doesn't recover in spring is it simply a case of removing the affected limbs or would you cut the whole thing down?

Sorry for all the questions I am very curious...

Eric Frei · 16th May 2011, 11:21 PM

There's all sorts of sprayers and misters.

Yeah I think foliage application on a nice day when stomata are open would be the most effective method of application for a poison.

We're not sure how long passed between the poisoning and the noticing as the customers were on holidays.

If the tree doesn't bounce back or one side dies I'd say cut it down.

Bowani Siam · 19th May 2011, 09:12 AM

Ok, we've had drilling and spraying, so here's another method of application.

A recent case in Alabama, where 130 year old university campus Oaks were poisoned with Spike 80DF. This is applied to the soil around root zone.

The uni staff removed as much contaminated soil as possible, and then applied active charcoal in a bid to absorb remaining poison. However, herbicide levels were still very high in soil at least 600mm deep!

Some good pics in these pdf updates. Very interesting..

http://ocm.auburn.edu/news/oaks_charcoal.pdf

http://ocm.auburn.edu/news/update110322.pdf

http://ocm.auburn.edu/news/update110331.pdf

Entire update history here:

Doesn't look like they will make it though. Bummer!

Eric Frei · 19th May 2011, 07:56 PM

This Spike stuff, I haven't heard of it before ... nasty stuff. That would be very hard to deal with, if you wanted to kill trees that would be the bomb.

Source:- http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/...9821?p=3&tc=pg

Quote:

Auburn said tests results indicated the herbicide levels found ranged from .78 parts per million to about 51 parts per million. He said studies have indicated that “100 parts per billion was toxic to some species of oak trees.”

“Every expert I’ve talked to around the country in mentioning rates up to 51 parts per million, they were very discouraged and did not offer up a lot of hope due to the extremely high concentration,” Enloe said.

Gary Keever, a horticulture professor, said Thursday that Spike 80DF can sometimes inhibit growth for as long as seven years.

Eric Frei · 6th June 2011, 10:02 PM

From the sugar water thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Frei

Poisoned Red Hill gum giant saved - Local News - News - General - The Canberra Times

Quote:

06 Jun, 2011
Sometime around the beginning of this year, someone tried to kill this 200-year-old tree in Canberra's south.

They came in the night, drilled holes into the remnant redgum's trunk and injected poison into the wounds, an act that would usually consign the tree to a lingering death.

But the tree is not going to die, thanks to the dedication and ingenuity of the city's foresters.

And whoever carried out the attack now stands a good chance of being caught.

Territory and Municipal Services arborists have adopted cutting-edge techniques from overseas, not only to keep the suburban street giant alive, but also to help catch the would-be killer.

Matt Badham and his team from TAMS' Urban Forest Management Unit are determined not to let the tree, situated on La Perouse Street in Red Hill, die and their months of hard work looks like it is paying off.

Mr Badham said he found that the tree was showing all the classic signs of being a victim of poisoning in February.

''When we found the holes in the tree, we put the things together ... When the leaves drop, you can feel it and bend it, they were pliable, but if it's drought and dryness, it'll actually crack and crisp, dried out and crusty,'' he said.

''In this case, because it's going off so quick, I'd say it was straight herbicide.''

Mr Badham said it had always been nearly impossible to save trees that had been attacked by this method because herbicides injected deep into the trunk attacked the plant both in the roots and in the canopy.

But there is a simple antidote: sugar. ''What it is is straight sugar into the soils at a rate of 20-30g per litre over an area of 2sqm, '' Mr Badham said.

''We've drilled every 800mm and once a month we're coming through and using the sugar and the water.''

The sugar replicates the nourishment produced by the leaves and begins to nurse the tree back to health.

''We've got foliage coming through up and into the canopy and generally with a poisoned tree, you will not find that coming back. ''

Mr Badham said he had learned the sugar technique from famed British plant physiologist Glynn Percival, who had also developed ways to track down the culprits of an attack.

''Leaf tests can show up deficiencies and show up exactly what sort of poison, of herbicide, was used,'' he said.

''In the UK, Dr Percival was tasked with trying to find out how they could prosecute people who poison trees, developers and whatnot, and he came up with the leaf tests and if they could match them up, they could then present a warrant to the people, check their sheds for the substances.''

Mr Badham urged residents to leave decisions on street tree removal to the experts at TAMS instead of being tempted to take matters into their own hands.

''For somebody to just decide that a tree needs to go is not what we want to see happening,'' he said.

''We have the knowledge, the expertise and the consultative ability to make a decision on the future of a tree and that's where the community should go.''

Bowani Siam · 7th June 2011, 10:38 AM

Ahhh sugar, is there anything it can't do? That's very very cool.

Must check out right said thread.

Joshua Rugg · 11th June 2011, 07:41 AM

we dealt with a poisoning once. we used our tree age injection system that we use for treating EAB to inject arer own in house mix of nitrogen and iron compound. it did the trick. and the tree came back in full bloom this spring! the tree is a jacaranda. its just awesome seeing those purple flowers!

Eric Frei · 26th June 2011, 11:07 PM

I have some doubts about this sugar water method.

I believe that the tree would put on a flush from stored sugars within it's woody structure. It is also likely that a flush can occur but the tree still dies later.

The trees in the pic are full of dead leaves and there's a slight flush. I wonder how well defoliated eucs suck up water?

Lets look at the poisons.

Source:

Quote:

What is glyphosate?

Glyphosate is a unique molecule. There’s no other herbicide like it. In fact, it’s in a group all on its own – herbicide group M. How does it work? Glyphosate inhibits an essential plant enzyme called EPSPS (5-enolpyruvyl – shikimate -3 – phosphate synthase). Inhibition of this enzyme prevents production of aromatic amino acids required for protein synthesis.

Glyphosate enters a plant through foliage; the amount of glyphosate and speed of entry depend on plant species and glyphosate delivery system. Only healthy and actively growing weeds should be sprayed as translocation and the translocation rate is dependent on the sugar transport system within the plant. Once in the plant, glyphosate moves in the phloem with sugar to the growing points. Most glyphosate is transported to the growing points within four hours (although this doesn’t mean symptoms show up in four hours). Transport slows after four hours and stops by 48 hours. The key to effective glyphosate activity is getting as much glyphosate into the plant as quickly as possible, because eventually glyphosate will inhibit its own transport.

Factors such as plant stress, dust and extreme weather can affect the uptake of glyphosate in to the plant.

Source: Active in Garlon is triclopyr

Quote:

Triclopyr acts as a
synthetic auxin, giving a plant an auxin overdose 1000 times natural levels, which disrupts the
hormonal balance and interferes with growth.

Source: Active in tordon is Picloram and 2,4-D

Quote:

The herbicide’s active ingredient works
like a natural growth regulator affecting
enzymes unique to plants. It enters the
treated vegetation through the leaves
or the stump surface and travels
throughout the plant via the plants
own transportation system. It induces
unregulated growth, which disrupts food
production and causes the plant to die
from lack of nutrients.

It appears from the dead leaves that the likely poison was glyphosate, also the easiest to get hold of.

The article says they applied 20 to 30g of sugar/litre per 2m2 of soil. And they did that once a month. I reckon the tree would have done what it's doing regardless of that, and who knows what else they have been doing.

So this week I have prepared for an experiment.

I will have 3x200mm potted murraya's which will all be poisoned with the same mix and batch of glyphosate.

All will receive the same volume of water per day. I will ask the nursery what was the average daily they were getting and match it to avoid further stresses.

1 will get water only
1 will get sugar water at the same concentration
1 will get my mix

A 200mm dia pot has 0.03m2 surface area. With the sugar water that equates to only 15ml of sugar water (25g/litre mix) for the 200mm pot. It's all to scale and accurate according to what they say.

Then we will see what lived the longest etc.

Bowani Siam · 27th June 2011, 09:03 AM

Hmm... I may conduct the same Murraya-killing experiment. Monitor the effect of herbicide and apply a remedial dose of.... oh sod it - I'll just poison the stupid Murrayas!!!!

Eric Frei · 4th July 2011, 05:16 PM

The experiment is under way.

We have Murraya and Syzygium jambos donated by Nedam Nursery of Rochedale.

Today at 1.30pm 15ml of glyphosate was mixed with 1L of water in a Hills 1L trigger sprayer.

All plants were isolated from drift and treated with 30 pumps (trigger sprays) of the same batch of mix. This was ample to provide a 360 degree coverage to drip point on all plants.

All plants will be exposed to the same conditions and amount of sunlight.

I will wait to see the first signs of wilt or browning before commencing treatment as that is likely what happens to poisoned trees.

I was informed by the nursery that the plants received a morning watering of approximately 10 minutes from the sprinkler system. The plants were out in the open and would also receive any rainfall.

I will continue a regular watering schedule of only the soil area within the pot of 250ml of water per day until the treatments commence, this will emulate nursery conditions and be consistent for all plants.

To prevent any possible claims of tampering each plant will have it's own watering can so there can be absolutely no transfer of contents. Each watering can has it's own measuring beaker to fill it, so again absolutely no way from any products to transfer.

I have named the plants and watering cans as follows:-

Robert:- This will be do nothing except straight tap water
Percy:- This will be sugar water
Eric:- This will be my mix disclosed at completion of the experiment

derwoodii · 4th July 2011, 07:28 PM

Kool a myth bark buster project. I have had last few months similar big red gum poisoned and since conducted sugar hit in an attempt to help. It has failed & with nil control and infinite environmental variation offers little to learn, it twas only a last ditch try to help. My last alike tree was a success but again nil control and not a repeatable project, it shows & means very little.
Perhaps if I get time and a few nursery left overs I will copy your methods to see what we get.

HA do this a few 100 times we may need to get lab coats with a goverment grant to journal publish.

Sunraysia Tree Solutions · 4th July 2011, 10:13 PM

Predictions ?

All will die, however erics mix will take slightly longer ( i'm guessing an enzyme mix)

Eric Frei · 4th July 2011, 10:29 PM

I reckon all will die too, they sucked that poison up so fast it wasn't funny, 1 minute later they were dry.

Eric Frei · 5th July 2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

''What it is is straight sugar into the soils at a rate of 20-30g per litre over an area of 2sqm, '' Mr Badham said.

''We've drilled every 800mm and once a month we're coming through and using the sugar and the water.''

An issue I have is the 15ml of sugar water once a month. It's 15ml as we do not have 2m2 of surface area like a big tree.

I do not feel that is much or often enough.

Suggestions? Like weekly, daily, every 3 days etc?

Eric Frei · 6th July 2011, 11:20 PM

This is how things are progressing, pictures taken 48hours after poisoning. As you can see no signs yet.

Watering schedule is 300ml per plant, in the morning, per day. Currently all receiving their daily dose of tap water only.

Eric Frei · 7th July 2011, 08:30 AM

My comment to the article has been published here:-
Poisoned Red Hill gum giant saved - Local News - News - General - The Canberra Times

Quote:

An experiment in Brisbane to see if this sugar water remedy is real or a placebo.

Some questions we'd like answers for are:-

How does a defoliated tree, especially eucalyptus absorb solution? Was the sugar absorbed or did it improve the soil biota which in turn helped the tree? Would the tree have survived anyway without the sugar water? Is regrowth simply an epicormic flush that will not be sustained?

Some of these questions are being addressed and the experiment is being updated online.

Hopefully we see follow up on this tree, also is there anyone who knows where this tree is so we can monitor it for ourselves? Pics etc.

Eric Frei · 9th July 2011, 03:59 PM

Today is day 5 and the lower leaves of the Jambos only are going dry and crinkly, the top leaves are still fine.

Garry Brockley · 10th July 2011, 09:26 PM

so do the lower leaves go first because they get more poison from the upper run off of the canopy?
or is the plant shedding the lower limbs to concentrate its rescourses on the upper leaves?
or is the vascular system affected in the lower sections first?

ps great experiment eric

Brent Ferris · 10th July 2011, 10:04 PM

I expect the lower leaves go first, because the poison was applied to the leaves, and excess dripped into the soil, which is then picked up by the roots, and the lower leaves are first in line for higher doses of poison.

Eric Frei · 16th July 2011, 05:24 PM

well 12 days later almost to the hour all the plants are fairing well and other than those few lower leaves on the Jambos not much is happening.

Here's a picture:-

So i mixed another batch of glyphosate at label rate of 15ml/L and sprayed them to dripping point similar to previously but this time they got 40 shots each.

I cannot mix it stronger as here in Qld if you go off label you can be fined. I know this case is a bit larger scale etc but it's true:-

Herbicide breach bad news for spray pilot | Primary industries & fisheries | Queensland Government

Quote:

26 February, 2010
A reminder of the need to follow chemical use instructions to the letter with an aerial spray contractor fined $800 in the Roma Magistrates Court for misuse of a herbicide containing glyphosate.

Biosecurity Queensland, a service of the Department of Employment, Economic Development and Innovation (DEEDI), said the offence was confirmed after a complaint was made to staff.

Geoff Cahill, Biosecurity Queensland regional inspector, said the contractor was fined under the Chemical Usage (Agricultural and Veterinary) Control Act 1988.

"During the investigation, Biosecurity inspectors found that the business´s employees had not read the label on the product, and had mixed and applied a glyphosate herbicide product at a rate higher than the product label instructed," he said.

"The glyphosate was aerially sprayed on a sorghum crop prior to harvest."

Mr Cahill said businesses that derive their main income from spraying chemicals need to have appropriate systems in place to ensure they apply agricultural chemicals in accordance with the approved label.

Biosecurity Queensland Director of Product Integrity, Sandra Baxendell, said the prosecution highlighted the importance of carefully reading the labels of agricultural chemicals and following the instructions.

"In particular, it is important that all users of agricultural chemicals ensure they follow instructions relating to the crop or situation of use, rate of application, equipment specifications, droplet spectrum, no spray zones and meteorological conditions," she said.

"The misuse of chemicals is a very serious matter and can be detrimental to human and livestock health, trade, the environment, and the Queensland grain industry´s reputation.

"In fact, misusing chemicals has the potential to damage the reputation of all Queensland´s primary producers and their produce."

Dr Baxendell said that, for the most part, aerial spray contractors had a high level of training for chemical mixing and application, but that this was an example of where the business did not have appropriate systems in place, which resulted in a costly mistake.

"The Magistrate clearly indicated in his verdict that failing to comply with the instructions on agricultural chemical labels can be fraught with danger and, in this case, has lead to a prosecution," she said.

"It is a reminder to all chemical application contractors to review their internal systems, and make sure their staff are properly trained."

Offences under the Chemical Usage (Agricultural and Veterinary) Control Act 1988 could bring fines of up to $60,000.

Dr Baxendell said that if chemical users were still unsure about the correct use of a registered agricultural chemical product after reading the label, they should contact Biosecurity Queensland for assistance.

"Our staff undertake routine monitoring of licensed aerial and ground distribution contractors in Queensland, as part of our commitment to demonstrate the safety of Queensland produce," she said.

"We can also provide advice and resources to help industry use agricultural chemicals responsibly."

Here's a pic of what I call dripping point:-

r32 · 1st August 2011, 03:28 AM

I've had some guy drill three or four 2 inch diameter holes approximately 6 inches deep into a mature Peltophorum pterocarpum of approximately 1 metre DBH and stuff it full of powdered chlorine intended for swimming pools. When called in to attend, all I could was bring in a good supply of water and flush the lot out. I figured with holes that large it was better left open to dry out than to attempt some form of cavity sealing.

The tree put out some adventitious roots from above each drill hole, but continued to function normally. That was about three years ago and the tree still stands today looking no different from its neighbours.

Brent Ferris · 1st August 2011, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Frei

An issue I have is the 15ml of sugar water once a month. It's 15ml as we do not have 2m2 of surface area like a big tree.

I do not feel that is much or often enough.

Suggestions? Like weekly, daily, every 3 days etc?

Once you see definitive problems, I would guess at least weekly would be far better than 1 x per month, or perhaps every 3 days. The plants and roots aren't big, but then presumably that means changes are also faster.

Eric Frei · 13th August 2011, 01:56 PM

Finally the experiment is under-way.

It appears the jambos is out of the equation as it did not suffer that bad from the poisoning. In all I sprayed these plants 5 times with a 15ml/L potency (30 pumps each). I sprayed them nearly every weekend as they simply were not dying enough.

As it is the Murraya dropped a lot of leaves, green leaves. The stems are dying and brittle, they are very sparse so time to start with treatments.

They get 300ml per day.

Robert gets just plain water.
Percy gets 15ml of sugar water (mixed at a rate of 25g/L) + 285ml of water. I have decided that for this experiment that will be the daily dose.
Eric gets the special SuperFrei mix. You can see the mix in the bucket getting aerated.

Brent Ferris · 16th August 2011, 11:51 AM

So does this mean the Syzygium jambos are resistant to glyphosphate? Could be a good thing or bad.

Eric Frei · 16th August 2011, 04:32 PM

No, they just need stronger dose but with the label regs I could not up the dosage to say 100ml/litre and spray them.

As if people poisoning trees go by the label, such is the red tape BS world we live in.

derwoodii · 16th August 2011, 06:42 PM

Good work look forward to the results, so far they look equally as fried.

If time permits by end of September I may have a few similar temperate latitude trees spare to sacrifice. Will try to replicate your trail with perhaps ten or so trees in each batch.

silent 2035 · 19th August 2011, 02:34 PM

Guys,

Great work ... keep it up and not taking away from your question and being new to the site I tripped over this one.

How is it possible to stop/slow the rate of poison in a large tree, once it has taken effect?

In my experence Active Carbon >>> H20 >>> and fulvic acid as the chaser. Sounds little like a cocktail but has the ability to carbonise the chemical/attach and help flush through the soil profile I believe ... Like all things timing is the key and type of apllication/product type/strength e.g. soil and sap wood.

16th May 2011, 06:10 PM	#1
Bowani Siam Mature tree Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 320	Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? In reference to this thread started by Eric... Classic neighbour drill and tree poisoning How is it possible to stop/slow the rate of poison in a large tree, once it has taken effect? I am wondering as this is seemingly a common occurrence. Can herbicide be flushed out? Is there some kind of compound that can reduce uptake of herbicide in trees after application? I found plenty of documentation on trialling herbicide inhibitors to allow for selective application to barley and wheat crops, however would this method be effective in a woody plant/dicot, especially one of size?

16th May 2011, 06:18 PM	#2
Bowani Siam Mature tree Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 320	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees??? Ok here's another one. Trees Accidentally Sprayed With Weed Killer Remedy \| eHow.com Interesting about the use of charcoal. Just like when you accidentally make an Ajax Marguerita. Removing the affected soil seems obvious, however this seems to only apply to cases where you have inadvertently dosed the tree and have time before the poison can take effect and damage becomes evident. But severing the root system? Hmm...... I'll see what else I can find..

16th May 2011, 07:01 PM	#3
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,996	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees??? The tree that was poisoned in that thread was not soil drenched or foliage sprayed, it was drilled. We all have seen how damage to say a northern root affects the northern branch, to some degree there is a correlation between root and canopy orientation. It may not be perfectly linear but there is some correlation. Now drilling also means a lot of the poison is at the bottom of the hole and goes into heartwood which other than rays has little vascular mobility for the poison. Heavy watering can dilute the chemical and maybe make it less affective, I say maybe as I do not have 100% proof and species also vary, for example I have poisoned ficus stumps and they live on. I then figured that any remaining parts including roots that were not affected could be boosted for nutrient/water uptake using microbial products including root extender. In addition the tree was not mulched so I suggested that. The idea is to stack as many possible advantages in the tree's favour as possible. Now Jacs do go dormant and winter is here, some are starting to lose their leaves so this could be good or bad. It could mean the tree is shutting down and translocating resources to the roots for winter and the success of our treatment limited, plus fungi and microbes don't like the cold much. It could mean the poison is concentrated in the root system too. Either way with this treatment the tree might bounce back in spring. Another way of slowing the movement of poison could be to slow down photosynthesis (transpiration and xylem flow), so using an anti-transpirant on foliage should help, but this Jac was a bit beyond that. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

16th May 2011, 07:39 PM	#4
Bowani Siam Mature tree Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 320	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees??? Interesting, Mycorrhiza Fungi in-a-Can! Yes, there is a definite link between orientation of wound and effect. Seen this a few times, especially when roots on one side have been cut away for a path or some other amenity. Loss of vigour all up one side. Speaking of vascular mobility, would it then be correct to say that the most effective way to poison a large tree is foliar application, even though this is not in any way practical? By that I mean if it results in a more rapid uptake of herbicide, therefore reducing treatment time? (I guess it would, as foliar application is most effective on a small scale.) Using a foliar anti-transpirant to slow uptake would be as difficult on a tree that size as it would to apply poison to the foliage in the first place. How long would it be before that particular Jacaranda had been poisoned to the time the damage became as apparent? If that side of the tree doesn't recover in spring is it simply a case of removing the affected limbs or would you cut the whole thing down? Sorry for all the questions I am very curious...

16th May 2011, 11:21 PM	#5
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,996	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees??? There's all sorts of sprayers and misters. Yeah I think foliage application on a nice day when stomata are open would be the most effective method of application for a poison. We're not sure how long passed between the poisoning and the noticing as the customers were on holidays. If the tree doesn't bounce back or one side dies I'd say cut it down. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

19th May 2011, 09:12 AM	#6
Bowani Siam Mature tree Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 320	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? Ok, we've had drilling and spraying, so here's another method of application. A recent case in Alabama, where 130 year old university campus Oaks were poisoned with Spike 80DF. This is applied to the soil around root zone. The uni staff removed as much contaminated soil as possible, and then applied active charcoal in a bid to absorb remaining poison. However, herbicide levels were still very high in soil at least 600mm deep! Some good pics in these pdf updates. Very interesting.. http://ocm.auburn.edu/news/oaks_charcoal.pdf http://ocm.auburn.edu/news/update110322.pdf http://ocm.auburn.edu/news/update110331.pdf Entire update history here: Doesn't look like they will make it though. Bummer!

7th June 2011, 10:38 AM	#9
Bowani Siam Mature tree Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 320	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? Ahhh sugar, is there anything it can't do? That's very very cool. Must check out right said thread.

11th June 2011, 07:41 AM	#10
Joshua Rugg Mature tree Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: maui, hawaii Posts: 285	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? we dealt with a poisoning once. we used our tree age injection system that we use for treating EAB to inject arer own in house mix of nitrogen and iron compound. it did the trick. and the tree came back in full bloom this spring! the tree is a jacaranda. its just awesome seeing those purple flowers! __________________ Stihl MS192T 14" MS200T 16" MS261 16" MS440 25" Husqvarna 359 20" 394XP 32" Poulan P3314 14" ( new hire/groundy saw)

27th June 2011, 09:03 AM	#12
Bowani Siam Mature tree Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 320	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? Hmm... I may conduct the same Murraya-killing experiment. Monitor the effect of herbicide and apply a remedial dose of.... oh sod it - I'll just poison the stupid Murrayas!!!!

4th July 2011, 05:16 PM	#13
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,996	Experiment under way The experiment is under way. We have Murraya and Syzygium jambos donated by Nedam Nursery of Rochedale. Today at 1.30pm 15ml of glyphosate was mixed with 1L of water in a Hills 1L trigger sprayer. All plants were isolated from drift and treated with 30 pumps (trigger sprays) of the same batch of mix. This was ample to provide a 360 degree coverage to drip point on all plants. All plants will be exposed to the same conditions and amount of sunlight. I will wait to see the first signs of wilt or browning before commencing treatment as that is likely what happens to poisoned trees. I was informed by the nursery that the plants received a morning watering of approximately 10 minutes from the sprinkler system. The plants were out in the open and would also receive any rainfall. I will continue a regular watering schedule of only the soil area within the pot of 250ml of water per day until the treatments commence, this will emulate nursery conditions and be consistent for all plants. To prevent any possible claims of tampering each plant will have it's own watering can so there can be absolutely no transfer of contents. Each watering can has it's own measuring beaker to fill it, so again absolutely no way from any products to transfer. I have named the plants and watering cans as follows:- Robert:- This will be do nothing except straight tap water Percy:- This will be sugar water Eric:- This will be my mix disclosed at completion of the experiment Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

4th July 2011, 07:28 PM	#14
derwoodii Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Melbourne Posts: 406	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? Kool a myth bark buster project. I have had last few months similar big red gum poisoned and since conducted sugar hit in an attempt to help. It has failed & with nil control and infinite environmental variation offers little to learn, it twas only a last ditch try to help. My last alike tree was a success but again nil control and not a repeatable project, it shows & means very little. Perhaps if I get time and a few nursery left overs I will copy your methods to see what we get. HA do this a few 100 times we may need to get lab coats with a goverment grant to journal publish.

4th July 2011, 10:13 PM	#15
Sunraysia Tree Solutions Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mildura Posts: 117	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? Predictions ? All will die, however erics mix will take slightly longer ( i'm guessing an enzyme mix)

4th July 2011, 10:29 PM	#16
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,996	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? I reckon all will die too, they sucked that poison up so fast it wasn't funny, 1 minute later they were dry. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

6th July 2011, 11:20 PM	#18
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,996	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? This is how things are progressing, pictures taken 48hours after poisoning. As you can see no signs yet. Watering schedule is 300ml per plant, in the morning, per day. Currently all receiving their daily dose of tap water only. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

9th July 2011, 03:59 PM	#20
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,996	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? Today is day 5 and the lower leaves of the Jambos only are going dry and crinkly, the top leaves are still fine. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

10th July 2011, 09:26 PM	#21
Garry Brockley Bayside Tree Care Brisbane Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,641	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? so do the lower leaves go first because they get more poison from the upper run off of the canopy? or is the plant shedding the lower limbs to concentrate its rescourses on the upper leaves? or is the vascular system affected in the lower sections first? ps great experiment eric __________________ My business:- Brisbane Bayside Tree Care

10th July 2011, 10:04 PM	#22
Brent Ferris Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,557	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? I expect the lower leaves go first, because the poison was applied to the leaves, and excess dripped into the soil, which is then picked up by the roots, and the lower leaves are first in line for higher doses of poison. __________________ My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports Consulting Forester If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too ! We do great jobs, even in small yards. Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered) Email -- treeshaveneeds@3web.com Cell 416-460-5704

1st August 2011, 03:28 AM	#24
r32 I'm new here so be nice Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Singapore Posts: 3	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? I've had some guy drill three or four 2 inch diameter holes approximately 6 inches deep into a mature Peltophorum pterocarpum of approximately 1 metre DBH and stuff it full of powdered chlorine intended for swimming pools. When called in to attend, all I could was bring in a good supply of water and flush the lot out. I figured with holes that large it was better left open to dry out than to attempt some form of cavity sealing. The tree put out some adventitious roots from above each drill hole, but continued to function normally. That was about three years ago and the tree still stands today looking no different from its neighbours.

13th August 2011, 01:56 PM	#26
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,996	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? Finally the experiment is under-way. It appears the jambos is out of the equation as it did not suffer that bad from the poisoning. In all I sprayed these plants 5 times with a 15ml/L potency (30 pumps each). I sprayed them nearly every weekend as they simply were not dying enough. As it is the Murraya dropped a lot of leaves, green leaves. The stems are dying and brittle, they are very sparse so time to start with treatments. They get 300ml per day. Robert gets just plain water. Percy gets 15ml of sugar water (mixed at a rate of 25g/L) + 285ml of water. I have decided that for this experiment that will be the daily dose. Eric gets the special SuperFrei mix. You can see the mix in the bucket getting aerated. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

16th August 2011, 11:51 AM	#27
Brent Ferris Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,557	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? So does this mean the Syzygium jambos are resistant to glyphosphate? Could be a good thing or bad. __________________ My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports Consulting Forester If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too ! We do great jobs, even in small yards. Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered) Email -- treeshaveneeds@3web.com Cell 416-460-5704

16th August 2011, 04:32 PM	#28
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,996	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? No, they just need stronger dose but with the label regs I could not up the dosage to say 100ml/litre and spray them. As if people poisoning trees go by the label, such is the red tape BS world we live in. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

16th August 2011, 06:42 PM	#29
derwoodii Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Melbourne Posts: 406	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? Good work look forward to the results, so far they look equally as fried. If time permits by end of September I may have a few similar temperate latitude trees spare to sacrifice. Will try to replicate your trail with perhaps ten or so trees in each batch.

19th August 2011, 02:34 PM	#30
silent 2035 Sappling Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 10	Re: Stopping/Slowing the Effects of Poison in Trees? Guys, Great work ... keep it up and not taking away from your question and being new to the site I tripped over this one. How is it possible to stop/slow the rate of poison in a large tree, once it has taken effect? In my experence Active Carbon >>> H20 >>> and fulvic acid as the chaser. Sounds little like a cocktail but has the ability to carbonise the chemical/attach and help flush through the soil profile I believe ... Like all things timing is the key and type of apllication/product type/strength e.g. soil and sap wood.

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