Significant Trees

Sean Freeman

I'm guessing this from the web site is not the answer you're looking for....But it is all I could find from here, maybe Q or Blair can get better info from the city itself?

Eric Frei

I hope they also budgeted in the cost of removal of the cage along with the tree, who'd want 2 eye sores!

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Sean Freeman

Something tells me a fair wack of their money went on the craning to get gear into the courtyard....that is ome self erecting crane setup!!!
NOSJOURNAAL - Anne Frankboom krijgt bescherming also if you have the time click on the vid down near the bottom for a longer look at the lift over the buildings.

treevet

And then after someone is maimed or killed by a high risk tree, the courts will define who was negligent in not correctly defining the impending hazard. You should know this as a forensic arb.? I think your position of not accepting or even acknowledging the need for any tree to ever be removed no matter what is silly and immature.

If someone was injured or killed in your family or a loved one (by a high risk tree) you'd be at the courthouse door filing a wrongful death suit based on incompetence by neglect of the consulting/administrating arborist. And you would be hurting deep inside too. A girl in our town was killed by a falling limb last winter.

Might be interesting after this fence is in place to require all supporters to spend a night camped within the secured fence, during a wind storm.

Sean Freeman

I'm really not sure where Guy has ever stated such a thing? You could (and people seem very happy to) intimate that as being his feelings, but I can't say I have ever actually read him state that as his position.

If you're writing about the Anne Frank tree, its really more of a pair of steel rings at two points on the trunk, than a fence.....As has been stated in many of the documents and reports the canopy of the tree has not been above the adjacent roof line since 2004...whilst there would be some wind loading in a storm the impacts on the current tree canopy would be less than you think.

I imagine if the foundation organised an evening vigil around the tree (in summer!) they would have many times more people wanting to spend the night there than could ever fit.....the specific history around this tree makes it extraordinarily important to a very great many Europeans (and others)
Very few of the professionals envolved in the project have ever argued that this is a model for any other tree...it has been about preserving this tree...and valuing this tree above others precisely because of its connection to the tragedy played out in the 30's and 40's.

Its also been about planting new trees from the seeds of this tree....its not a question of deciding between preservation or succession, it is about both, it is always about both....proper tree management has a time frame inside it that exceeds almost all other kinds of planning, management plans should run for at least 50yrs more realistically if they are to be any good they should run for far far longer. Succession planting, and allowing for predicted and unexpected evolutions in the micro-environments around tree communities are all parts of that.

treevet

I was referring to both "significant trees" and the AF tree in my post. Winds do not always blow sideways. A 500 year old oak on my block was recently hit by a downshear and it deposited an approximately 8000 pound branch in the middle of a roof. I have read about the AF tree for many years. Decay detection has brought it to the brink of removal and what appeared to be a clumsy attempt at canopy reduction. I am currently reading "Fungal Strategies of Wood Decay in Trees", Schwarze, Engels, Mattheck. It is impressive what decay causing organisms do to the cell structure in trees. I think there is a transition time where it must be difficult to detect the deterioration that is very important. It is often thought that there is a void (cavity) or there is good wood by the naive.
They (the public for the most part) think that if the tree is physiologically healthy and aesthetically pleasing/ important then how could there be a structural impasse.

While on a plane to Salt Lake City a few years ago to an NBA game, we were hit by a series of 3 downshears. It was like dropping off the highest peak on a roller coaster ride. All the full plane screamed as if on a rollercoaster but when I looked around there were no smiles on any faces. A long line was at the bathroom throwing up. Trees need to be able to cope with these extremes and if one life is lost in the name of a plant being "saved" that is significant that has a finite life span anyway IMO it is wrong.

Sean Freeman

Yes you are correct wind loading is not as simple as a single vector acting on a solid sail....it was not my intention to imply otherwise.

Trees are natural systems they will fail, all trees eventually fail, irrespective of how much we would wish it otherwise. Anyone who makes their living from the long term management of urban amenity trees has to be able to balance the desire to retain all of the almost endless benefits accrued to the community from trees, with the recognition that there is an element of risk associated with living and working beneath their canopies.

Personally I am very comfortable with my ability to strike that balance.

Personally I am happy that the fiasco of so called management of the Anne Frank tree was halted before it was cut down and some who have a little greater experience of managing veteran trees were brought in to properly assess the tree, and provide options to the wider city community as to its future management.

On a side matter, "fungal strategies" is a great read and full of interesting info, Prof Francis Schwarze is presenting at our conference next week, and I'm attending his workshop...doubtless there will be some interesting debate about the value of studying sanitised dried wood blocks in the analysis of progressive fungal decay in living wood tissues

treeseer

Yes that is the tricky part, when the fungal enzymes are at work.

As for your namecalling, sticks and stones, and btw you are flat wrong on several counts with your fear-addled risk assessment strategy. Sean spoke for me on that.

I just condemned 4 mature Liriodendron last week. When i learn to downsize pics I will post em.

Here's a review of the Schwarze book, written 5+ years ago by your friendly silly immature risk assessor. Love ya Dave, mean it!

The isa Journal version is butchered; the editors insisted I hack it back from 800 words to 500, then when they printed it, it was on the top half of the page, and the bottom half was....BLANK!

Soon they will have new editors, thank goodness.

Attached Files

ISA Pub Review.doc (31.5 KB, 101 views)

treevet

I enjoyed the Cliff's (Guy's) notes on this marvelous book. It is a very well written article.

I would immediately apologize for the name calling if you had not labeled me an "arborphobe" and a "sawdustluster" in another thread. I have a deep love for trees and my readings and knowledge should add some credence to that.

It is enlightening to, through this post, find that you do at times decide to remove a live tree on occasion. It makes those of us who have been chastised for considering that option by you more accepting of your opinions.
You, on the other hand, might be more thoughtful from your perspective when others have to make such a difficult and impacting decision that they may have taken all things into consideration that you did when condemning those tulip trees. We may just know what we are doing as well as you do. This is part of "significant tree management" that is an arborist's responsibility.

treeseer

The new US Champion Tree list just came out, and the mag has a good piece on climbers' roles as big tree measurers. If you want a copy of the mag pm me your US address and I'll mail one.

American Forests: National Register of Big Trees

funarty

Hi there how big are coral trees and where do they come from?

Eric Frei

Which coral trees, there's many types, the one with the thorns?

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funarty

No they have big dish like leaves ,the bark is scaley and the flowers red.Its only a small tree in a pot at the moment, the base is fat.

treevet

A tree I mentioned earlier in this thread, a 500 year old (increment boring) bur oak, that was hit by a downshear, split in 3 other crotches and we had to take off over a third of the canopy to protect surrounding structures (3). The area we cut it back to had vigorous growth (natural canopy) and it has done quite well for 4 summers. Somewhat interestingly this is an unusual case where a tree that was a state champion became not a state champ and was not removed.

vitex42

Being an ex-souff effrican I have kept a handle on forestry and related topics there.

SA has recently (at long last) initiated a tree protection programme of Champion Trees (biggest, tallest, oldest) which have pretty good statutory protection.

From recollection, the tallest trees in SA are Eucalyptus (doh) that are about 80m tall. The following link may be of interest

DWAF

Most city councils in NZ have a list of notable trees, and these are rigorously protected by law. One that was illegally removed in Auckland cost the culprit about $80K in fines and he had to do a restorative justice programme too.

tvnz.co.nz/view/news_national_story_skin/671641
Scoop: Tree offender admits guilt and publicly apologises

On top of this, Auckland has blanket tree protection - i.e. you have to get a consent from the local authority to remove or prune (eh) any tree over a certain size.

vitex42

If you're referring to Erythrina (caffra / xsykesii ) they get big - or certainly they do under NZ conditions

I've seen 15 m (45 ft) and 5m girth (15 ft)

pomme

here is a lovely Zelkova i saw whilst out and about opposite Dulwich College S.London

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Sean Freeman

What a cracker...thankyou for posting

treeseer

Yes, doing well despite the sidewalk. Zelkovas were touted as a replacement for the elm but they are not as hardy or vigorous.

funarty

Thanks vitex I 'll look forward to it growing

vitex42

You're all interested in trees - just differently. The fact that you get all bloody-minded about differences of opinion about trees shows that you take it seriously.

You all have a lot invested in trees - most of us do. Let it go. Ekka's not gonna be cutting down any National Monument trees (well, unless they're dead).

The Green Fringe are going to be saving every significant tree they can even if they bleed doing so.

Most assessments that we make about trees are subjective. Opinions are involved. Good. If you didn't have opinions you'd be indifferent - and that's what kills trees, not strongly held opinions.

dguntertrees

I don't think "the green" is a fringe any longer.

vitex42

Yeah, look what happened to Angkor Wat

Creeping Green Fringe eh?

But yer right - it's a selling point! Trees are Good

treevet

What a lovely tree. Zelkova s are all the rage around here and may even be overplanted but I haven't seen the mature form. How old would approx that specimen be? They appear to favor co dom form/architecture. Is breakage a result of this in mature form? What are other poss negs in regards to this plant?(pest/disease) I plan to use them in my planting segments of the year.

treevet

PS. I love the new little post reference character.

Eric Frei

Psssst ..... it's always been there.

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treevet

can't slip nothing by me

Robert STAVROU

Thanks for allowing me to join this forum. This thread has been a delight!

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STAV

treevet

It is a pleasure to have you here Stav.

Sean Freeman

Sometimes with trees you can win a single trick! Camperdown again, it would appear there has been some confusion (if the papers are to be believed) over the species selection and now pest problems!.....grrrrrr

Insect warning: Leaf beetle hits young elms - Local News - News - General - The Warrnambool Standard

Thankfully some sanity returns to the situation.....

Assurances tree bug will be exterminated - Local News - News - General - The Warrnambool Standard