Second thoughts

Therrin

Just got home. Was up in Lake Hughes for 5 days.
On the last day a somewhat unexpected blizzard came in fast and hit hard. I was out at a site fabricating a support array for a solar panel system. Ended up spending most of the night sleeping in a steel shipping container till they could arrange to get a MAX tracked atv out to pick me up.

I did however, get measurements of the other clients property taken and took pictures of the driveway. I'm gonna take them over to the Ahern rental yard and talk to the boss over there about access using the 80' articulated boom.

trout

I have read this entire thread , theres been mention of ewp,s ,cranes ,walking away , helicopters , using the tree next to it (always a good idea , when pos ) , flying fox , etc - Ive also read gauds effort ( he lost me 4 a bit , however , have sorted wat he tried to get acros ) he,s onto something ,I think it would work ( if Im wrong please message me and explain it to me )

Therrin

I'm not sure I was able to sort it out... A diagram would have been good.

Ok so you are NOT supposed to shock-load amsteel??

I know the amsteel is a bit of overkill, but I was looking at it while keeping in mind that if I purchased that to use for this job, I'd HAVE it to use for further use.

After surveying the site the other day though, there really isnt a whole lot to anchor to on the other end of the property, except maybe a truck or tractor. I think the idea of tensioning the line using a 4:1 is excellent advice, instead of pulling tight with the tractor.

I'll post some pictures of the area/driveway. Wasnt able to get over to the rental yard today but I'm lookin at getting there early tomorrow.

rbtree

my comments in italics.....

I'm not sure I was able to sort it out... A diagram would have been good. sort what out?



Ok so you are NOT supposed to shock-load amsteel?? correctomundo

I know the amsteel is a bit of overkill, but I was looking at it while keeping in mind that if I purchased that to use for this job, I'd HAVE it to use for further use. way overkill...but mine is a lot cheaper....same stuff



I'll post some pictures of the area/driveway. Wasnt able to get over to the rental yard today but I'm lookin at getting there early tomorrow. let's see 'em[

Therrin

Trout says I said Your comment was under that, I was just responding first to what trout said about what gaud said =)

PIctures!

www.noobfusion.com/therrin/driveway.avi

Attached Thumbnails

         

Bruce Hopf

By the looks of that drive way, it is possible to get a small boom truck in there to work with. If the driver knew what he was doing. But around that trailer, it could be if fie, to have enough room, to maneuver.
Another possibility, would be a painters truck. They have some long ladders on them, to be able to reach up to the peaks of barn roves, from the broad side of the building.
They are similar to a bucket truck, but the ladders go out, like the boom of a boom truck, and can articulate as well. Hope it all work out for you Therrin. Take care. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

southsoundtree

Is there any exposed bedrock on that hillside that you could anchor into?

Looks like your driveway is steep. The bottom grade change from the street to the driveway might be your limiting factor. Looks like it is narrow if you only stick to the asphalt, but could drive on and off the driveway and get a decent sized rig in there.

Therrin

Yeah the grade change is pretty bad. Last time we drove a longbed pickup out of there we scraped a furrow in the driveway with the hitch. (we being the client and I)

Looks like we're going with the knuckleboom. There's an override on it so I can still move the boom around while driving it up the grade, to keep the boom clear of the ground and the trees. I'll just have to creepy-crawl it up there and see how it goes.

trout

good pics of a asphalt ( bitumen ) drive -( this is why u should go crete ) . as for the really fit looking dude , in these shots ? push ups ,sit ups , change in diet - should fix his probs - now as 4 the tree - can not really comment ( it,s there in the back ground in the last shot ? this photo gives no insight at all , need to know it,s relativity to surrounding structures etc sorry mate but in all honesty

rbtree

Yeah, let's see various angles of the tree, both wide for surroundings and closeups of the tree itself.

Looks like it's climbable.

Therrin

Trout, sorry, but in all honesty, have you read the rest of this thread?

These pictures are of the DRIVEWAY, there are plenty of other pictures in this thread of the tree itself.

Climb-able? Did you see the pictures where its shedding its bark and has large rotted sections? You wanna climb it, have at it!

Bill's already noobing me on Facebook sayin stuff like "its just cuz you dont have enough experience ken, this thing would be a breeze for me"

Difference between he and I being that I havent yet fallen out of a tree, and he's done it several times. AND, I like to guarantee my results. Not like "well whoops I just crushed your garage, better luck next time!"

(the guy in the photo is Steve. A former boss of mine, and the person who's house I stay at when I go up there for several days. I left him in there for scale only.)

rbtree

I see you weren't talking to me, therrin, but I did ask for more tree pics. Went back and looked at the ones you put up already.

Naturally, pics aren't the same as being there.....but, to me, the tree doesn't look all that bad...Bark still on, or most of it anyhow, and needles as well, on some parts...However, punk or decay presence, which you indicated is there, changes the ball game.. Pine can lose wood strength quickly after death.

A couple ways to determine the wood strength is to drill some holes with a small bit, and check for color and resistance....or bore in vertically with a chain saw,which doesn't weaken the area much...

Best not to listen to anything Bill says, as you seem to realize....Remember, two years ago, he was a total greenhorn....and has had few if any mentors to learn from--hands on, that is, internet learning is all well and good, but no substitute for real world training.

Therrin

Agreed.

I've already decided not to climb it further than I already have, based on the decayed stuff I found. Not much more is gonna happen on this thread till I get the boom in there and finish it out.

And... I think I smell a troll.

Jeffrey Lovstrom

Just do it! Dang! Whats the problem!
Jeff

Therrin

scheduling!

The client's property is 120 miles away, I have other responsibilities during the week that I cant miss, and I have to arrange for the crew people I need there to be available all on the same day along with the day I can get the machine delivered.
Up until a couple days ago I wasnt even sure about the clearance on the driveway for getting access with the machine.
And at $1k/day, its not something I want to rush and then be left with something I cant get in place.

Fair enough? Geez....

Apparently it seems easy for alot of ya'll to say how easy it is and how quickly I should be proceeding, but I've figured out how to circumvent the mistakes I've made in the past. And truly, you cant appreciate any specific location without being there in person and seeing it yourself.

Jon

Hey Therrin
Theres nothen wrong with taken your time and exploring all options. That tree isnt gunna walk away or anything...

Bruce Hopf

I agree 110%. There is nothing wrong, with being careful, while doing a job. Life is too short, to say, I wish I would have do it this way, or that way, after something goes wrong. Bruce.

__________________
McCulloch chain saws
1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's,
2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener,
1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver
2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10
Stihl chain saws
2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084,
Strunk chain saws
1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special
Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

Levi Parkin

By far, better safe than sorry. Take you time, no sense in rushing to your death.

southsoundtree

Therrin,

Are you familiar with reducing and redirecting forces by using multiple blocks?

In the diagram, I drew the Net forces in orange with arrows, somewhat to be a vector diagram, for those familiar.


In the single pulley to the right, the force is levering down on the right limb. If this is weak, the rigging will rip it off potentially.

If the force is redirected in-line with the limb, you are going to be directing the force down the limb, relying on the crush resistance (anyone know the right word for this??) of the wood, more than the shear strength.


Have you figuring on having a tie-in point in one or two of the leads that you are not working on, and using a breakaway work positioning lanyard, or slip-off friction hitch, such that you can slip the hitch off of the end of your rope lanyard in an emergency by taking out the stopper knot in the end of your lanyard. If I'm rigging a questionable lead, I like to use a rope lanyard (reasonably cut-able under tension) on the lead for work postioning with a TIP in another lead. If rigging were to break the lead that I'm lanyarded into, I would already have my one hand on the hitch while finishing the cut with the other, with a handsaw typically, so that I can hear warnings, cracking, popping, etc.

Heavy ratchet straps around/ between multiple leads to act as temporary support systems can be reassuring if you question the integrity of the crotch. Remove the bark at the trunk-leader junctions to inspect.

If you think that you can SAFELY climb and rig it, that $1000/ day to see if it will go up the drive could be well spent on plywood, additional gear, etc.

If it gets too dicey, you can still hire the lift.

If you can't climb and rig it SAFELY, the lift sounds overly expensive, but a good option. Is there a huge delivery fee to a remote location?

Therrin

The actual price breakdown is about $650/day with $100 delivery and $100 pickup. It's about a 100mile trip for the semi truck and flatbed to bring it and take it though, so the $100 each way is VERY reasonable. I was rounding for the $1K figure.

I appreciate your input on this!

I actually have used large ratchet straps to "shore up" leaders before. The way these are pointed/leaning I'd only be able to strap them to eachother, which would put lateral (sideways) force against the leaders as well as whichever directional force applied during rigging.

Directing the force in the direction of the limb is something I hadnt considered, but it makes sense the way you described it.

Also, your slip-free lanyard idea is great too, I hadnt thought of that either. I use my rope lanyards (non steel core) so that I can cut them if need be, but your deletion of the stopper so it can slip free to allow you to slide away on a seperate lifeline is pretty niffty.

The client is totally onboard with the lift idea, even with the cost. Since we have so much history, I quoted it such as that I'm still making what I need/want from it, but he's still getting a good deal out of it. And since he's onboard with the lift scenario and the measurements and angles all work out for getting it on-site, I've chosen that route at this point.

I plan to use the lift to attatch my rigging point high up in one of the two unworked leaders. Then without my bodyweight on the leader, I can use spider-legs on the rigging line to drop a few branches at a time; from a point higher than what I could climb to, but with such little weight on each drop that rigging the weight down on the leader shouldnt be a problem. And it should go fairly quickly.

After limbing up one leader I'll set the rigging TIP at the top of it, and use it to rig off the second leader all the way down; then switch the rigging tip to the leader I've already limbed and cut the top out of. Then I'll use that same rigging TIP to rig out the stuff hanging over the power pole, and finally drop that whole limb off since its the only one situated as such that I can just drop it.

After that I can just block down what's left of the spar into the same DZ and be done with it.



though, for the additional input. I REALLY appreciate all the folks who've put GOOD INFO into this thread. On this single job/thread I've learned entire series of techniques that I can put to use later on in my business. I think that's pretty awesome.

Treeson

Sounds like your on the way home with this one now, look forward to the pics of the takedown.
Your not the only one who has benefitted from reading this post and the loads of differing approaches people have offered forward.

jomoco

Hey Therrin,

I'm in CA, why don't you sub the climbing out to me? I'll bring my own rigging and get it safely on the ground for you in one day for 500 bucks plus travel cost, just flying in with my rigging, no saws.

pm me

I'm assuming you have an ms200 climbsaw?

Give me a jingle mate!

jomoco

bobdoesit

Therrin sounds like the plans have come together now. Hope it all goes really well for you. Dont forget the pics of the TD after all this we need to see it.

Good luck.

And hey, Climb safe out there.

Rob.

Eric Frei

I reckon get Jomoco and a video camera .... well, whatever you do you should video it, everyones waiting to see what happens.

__________________

jomoco

Thanks Ekka, that tree has a good TIP, and looks totally speedlinable to my eye. A classic example of the beneficial aspects of a low dynamics speedlining candidate if ever I seen one.

jomoco

rbtree

The tree looks easy to me......Therrin admittedly is low on experience.

He's worried about decay along with the poor structure of the tree..lots of lateral weight, etc.

Of course you and I don't know about the decay, structural integrity...without being there. But seeing the needles still on most of the tree, and even some life in parts of it, it looks to be fairly easy.....