safety and accidents

chadd

what are the safety requirements in other parts of the world?
what is the accident rate at?
what's the compensation like for injured workers?

in bc for fallers the safety rules are almost overboard and wcb (workers compensation board) try's way to hard to deny coverage. everything is checked and certification is mandatory.

when i was climbing and working in the city safety was still a great concern but barely inforced. the only time any real attention was paid to my company was when we had a fatality. we lost a ground man thru a chipper. the only recorded accident within the companies history of 13 years. it was and still is a safe company, but not alot of attention is focused on arborist and landscapers. nor is certification of any importance.

Eric Frei

Felling and logging are very dangerous, only one more dangerous job than that is a crab fishermen in the Bering Strait.

Mind you looking at Asian high rise construction workers looks pretty bad!

__________________

chadd

i know the risks involved and the level of danger, i am just curious what other countries do about it and what people have been forced to deal with and the outcomes because of it.

JohN Dee

Here in NSW, Australia our "work" authority is Work Cover. They are more re-active then pro-active... Meaning they wait for people to hurt and kill themselves then make rules based on the outcome and what mistakes were made... Some good, some not so good.

Here is a link to our Code of Practice that is the minimum standard we're supposed to follow: Code of Practice: Tree Work 2008 - NSW, Australia

__________________
We are what we repeatedly do... Excellence then, is not an act, but HABIT...

Red : Green : Blue

Eric Frei

That'll keep him busy. LOL

__________________

Robert STAVROU

Standards Australia is also another handy info source.
"What is the Victorian equivalent of Workcover called?" they have some good info.

__________________
STAV

Steve Tipton

Victoria have "Worksafe"

__________________
Heightmaster

shaggs

Noticed this one also under "Vehicle Loading Cranes"

"i. The crane must never be used in pick-and-carry mode.
j. Vehicle-loading cranes are not to be used for lifting persons"

This will get a few local big boys nose out of joint as they have tried to follow in some American's footsteps with using large knucklebooms to dismantle and do "picks"!

Eric Frei

What is a vehicle loading crane then good for if it cant lift?

Where did you get that?

Also from some quick scanning the net it appears in NSW you have to have a ticket for using a hiab ... sure are a dumb lot you people in NSW. Got a rule for wiping your ass too?

__________________

shaggs

Worcover code of practise under "Vehicle loading cranes", page 80 of document. (the one JDee posted above(NSW))

Mate it gets better,
"m. The crane is not to be used to drag a load across a supporting surface."

so now i am totally stuffed on how we's get things off the deck of the truck with that new fancy crane as "j" says we cannot lift and "m" says we cannot drag????? What a great investment.

Hate to say it, should have spent the dollers on a kanga..... until Workcover NSW drafts a document where you cannot do anything with them either.

Yes mate we do have rules for wiping our ass, but my computer is still downloading the 426 page document!!!

Eric Frei

Lordy, out of control.

This is what happens when academics who dont work in the job start playing God for it.

Hang your heads in shame you who conjure such garbage, and get a real job.

__________________

chadd

we aren't aloud to use cranes to pick up persons here either. oops, it saes alot of time in storm seasons though.

Sean Freeman

I'm pretty sure the no dragging spec has been around for a long time...I've never come across a crane operator that would permit the load to drag intentionally, the stability of the crane would be greatly compromised. Not sure I understand the no pick and carry one though, must be applied to certain classes of cranes only since pick and carry is what a franna does all the time.

Eric Frei

So Mike Poor and Allmark would be stuffed!

No lifting persons.

__________________

Steve Tipton

The NSW COP refers to self loading (Hiab type) cranes when saying not to lift and carry, as in picking up a load and driving the truck with the suspended load. These units were not designed for this activity, only to load and unload the carrier vehicle.

A licence is not required to oprate a self loading crane with a capacity of less than 10 tonne per metre. However, a dogging qualification is required where "judgment is required to sling and/or direct a load". I take this to mean if you have to assess the weight and balance of a log, for example, then select the apprpriate slings or chains etc, you need to be qualified.
If, for example, you are picking up a known weight with fitted lifting eyes or similar (eg. a crane counter weight or a concrete road barrier), such judgement is not required, therfore no qualification is required.

Dragging or snigging to a crane is considered unsafe as it may apply side loads to jibs and other components that may affect stability or cause stresses in areas not designed for such stresses. It is acceptable to snig loads' not exceeding the unit capacity' only by running the fall wire through a pulley block mounted low on the crane itself, therefore causing a straight down load to be applied to the jib.

It has long been illegal to lift a person directly from a crane hook in NSW.
I have heard it is allowed in the Northern Territory by persons who have satisfactorily passed an accredied course for this.
Many applications to Workcver NSW for exemption of this have been rejected.

__________________
Heightmaster

Sean Freeman

Thankyou for the clarification Quintrex

Eric Frei

I'm still trying to register that magic carpet everyone thinks we have that floats pieces away yonder and gets us to the tips of dead trees.

__________________

Garry Brockley

Health and safety executive in uk is very keen on fining people for not following protocol. city and guilds have stepped up and made it that anyone working professionally in the business must have appropriate training and be certified to carry out that job.
there are rumours (as i haven't met anyone that its happened to) that after having a climbing accident a climber was heavily fined for not following procedures in the region of £10,000 career ending amount. along with the accident injuries.

__________________

Eric Frei

And what of the gypsies with caravans?

__________________

Garry Brockley

there are shed loads of them where i live two camps of them plus the odd ones that turn up and take up residence in the local ind est
health and safety and city and guilds only go after the people who are legal and are easy to catch.
our law stinks they have a free run of the country and the police wont touch them.
they can keep the miles of conifer hedges that need trimming and the customers that dont want to pay a proper price for a proper job and get their lawns and buildings ruined .thats their lookout
unfortunately there isnt anyone going around to each job and checking on training certs and insurance but then if they did would we be happy with them checking us? maybe, maybe not.
it would take a huge amount of stucture put in place to police the work it's easier to make the public aware of the pit falls and hope they will use some common sense. well thats my opinion anyway.

__________________

Eric Frei

I liken your gypsies to our islander door knockers. Difference is we have no regs or licence system just OHS to ping them on.

And like you said, no-one does anything about that.

But if it were say gypsie plumbers or gypsie builders I bet they'd be all over them like a rash, just happens to be trees so the priority is low.

The way the BSA licence system works here (although has it's own problems) is all tradesmen have to have papers or certs, they then join and pay an annual fee. Members dob in shonks, members must advertise their BSA licence number, on building sites signage must be in place who the principal contractor is with details. Newspapers refuse to advertise without your BSA number.

So shonks are shut down at the point of advertising and then both dobbed in by consumers and the legit trades people.

The negatives I hear from the tradespeople is the fee they have to pay, the BS complaints system with disgruntled home-owners who conjure issues up etc. Many like us do the right thing and forget about the benefits. Many that I talk too simply dont understand the impact of shonksters and when I explain our situation they realise how much better theirs is.

The offenders cop it good too, the BSA has power endorsed by law, a reasonable system to commence from I think.

But they dont want us or tree people, that's a dead duck. So then the whole wheel has to be reinvented with politicians making laws to a body that will govern us. All too hard, easiest way is for us to be accomodated via the BSA.

__________________

chadd

we deal with alot of that crap here too. no one checks anything for qualifications. i've quoted so many jobs that people try and bargain me down to a price that lesser companies quote. it ruins the industry and makes it harder to become a more profitable industry.

but my favorite is when they call u back to fix the garbage that the lesser company created and it's more work than it would have origanally been so u charge them more. but people learn quickly and only make that mistake once. i have alot of repeat customers that have learned that one.

newguy18

around here,its basically where what you want to ppe wise[only a hardhat required]and half of the tree guys[myself included don't].Not to many rules or regs just do it safely i suppose.I've always said though,knowing what your doing will keep you safer than any piece of ppe.

__________________
Have your say join us today.


old schooler

chadd

it's quite a shame that there is such little done for our well being as tree dicks. it's nice in some respects, but there are so many fly-by-night operations with no standards or qualifications it seems redundant to bother with any of it.

i know we all cut corners, even in the bush it happens. but it is heavily inforced out here.

what accidents have been dealt with? what was done about it?

chadd

after i watch a guy go thru the chipper, and we replaced it with a new one, we had to install a safety so that the feed wheels won't feed unless u hold the bar in the right position. so annoying for chipping huge piles, but no further incidents