Redwoods: A "Must Read"

mdvaden

Yesterday, I started a thread on PortlandHikers.com about the redwoods.

When context moved to where to go, and where the big stuff is, and what's secluded, I did some searching, and learned of a tree and grove that was not familiar to me - Grove of Titans.

It's got to be within 2 miles of where I hike. One of those guarded secret places. Anyhow, the article has too many clues, and I know I could find these in a week to a month if need be. The biggest clue is not where they went in, but where they came out. And most people would focus on where they went in. Either way, not a lot of people would go looking, even if they knew. And me - I wouldn't tell either.

But I'd love to hear what this article says and means to you. In two ways. One - the trees. Two - about what they did not take into the forest with them. And whatever else. The link:

Orion Magazine - March-April 2007

Not sure of your browser, but when I click the page, the text enlarges a lot.

Eric Frei

Also this has clues.

A Day of Discovery | Orion magazine

Explanation of where Stout Grove is and where they came out.

Stout Grove

Richard Preston knows where it is, here's a pic of it.

Richard Preston

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Eric Frei

Mario, here's a google earth of the region.

Marked in yellow is where they came out, Stout grove, they got a lift to their car and went to a burger joint to pig out back in Crescent.

I divided the area into 3 regions, I did this based on rivers they didn't mention crossing (although they mentioned creeks). Personally I think they were in Area 2 as it's more mountainous.

The southern end of region 2 seems to have lots of tracks and trails which they never had. Also they mentioned entry from the road where they parked the car was no trails so I think they were in the RH part of Area 2.

I cant get any good topo maps online. Also that area has the odd clearing which fits in with the story.

There is a road running along that river on the RH side of area 2, my hunch is they parked there.

I don't know if they had a compass or not and why if that's the case they didn't go back the way they came or were a little lost following out creeks etc in another direction.

The whole park is not that big at 10,000 acres however it mentions everywhere about being thick with vegetation and inaccessible. So travelling a mile in a couple of hours is a big deal.

Really need a topo map to see trails and creeks and nail the spot, maybe there's some aerials of the area too, I'm sure though with 300' trees what all these maps show ain't what it's like on the forest floor.

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mdvaden

After a second read, here is what I came up with.

By the way, since your ocean is on the left, looking SOUTH to NORTH, their entire ordeal from parking to getting out, occured in the small upper portion of your area #1, exiting in the Stout Grove - your yellow spot. My diagram reverses compass direction view.

So you have a better idea of what you are looking at, the diagram below is looking from NORTH to SOUTH. Crescent City would be to the right, and the Campground is on the left. The lower fine yellow line is the main highway coming through the forest crudely east to west. The top fine yellow line is Howland Hill Rd. The parked along the lower yellow line, and hiked up the hill, likely going up that "Y" gulley you can see, taking the right or WEST fork. If that's the right Y, that means they probably angled a bit left or SOUTHEAST after, or they would be too far from Stout Grove. The area of forest framed-in here between the roads is about 3.0 miles north to south. And between Stout Grove and Crescent City about 7 miles east to west.

Glad you posted that photo - it does have a clue I overlooked in it. Walking in the redwoods, it's very dense and uncommon to see daylight in any one direction. Behind the tree and man, is an awful lot of daylight. That shows that the grassy clearing is truly a substantial one. Very uncommon in there. Might be a reason they are so big too.

The right dotted Green line is where I think Boy Scout Tree trail is, but maybe a bit more to the left. The left dotted Green line is Hiouchi Trail. I've been on both trails. Knowing that the grove is probably not within eye-shot of these trails, or the road, and knowing how long these men went up, eliminates a huge amount of area to look in. Virtually elimates the entire lower 2/3, because we know they traveled like 2.5 miles before finding it. And everything to the right is eliminated or they never would have got to Stout Grove in daylight. So whereas they explored the hardest to get through area and 100% of the area and found the grove, I would only need to look in about 10% of the area. And area about 1 mile x 1.5 miles. Very small region. And I can elimate the 7 hour brutal access and just come in from Howland Hill Rd., where I'm sure they enter now.

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Eric Frei

That was my first choice to as it did say they enetered south of the highway.

What threw me was the river to cross to get to Stout Grove, but I dont know if it's a big enough river you have to swim or just a creek. That's what threw me.

Mario, can you get any decent detailed topo maps?

I like these puzzles ... sort of like those mystery orienteering hikes with compasses and a map.

Also, they didn't seem to concerned about taking a heep of gear for staying the night etc, just wearing a T-Shirt means (for "exploreres") they were expecting a day stroll and little chance of getting lost ... probably due to roads on boundaries.

Pity those other trees aren't marked, then it would be a lot easier to nail it.

Nice, just had a Google Earth update, some 13mb file, way clearer now!

Mario, I have orientated my map same as yours, noticed that from Stout Grove a track follows the river south to a bridge.

Also I carefully scanned that area looking for some daylight patches and circled likely ones in red but more likely ones in yellow.

That's the way I'd go in to have a look to save fighting the terrain.

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azrael

That's pretty good detective work guys.
The image gallery in this link (The Wild Trees) is definately worth perusing thru.

mdvaden

Here is a second go at the image, I thought this version might seem a bit simpler. Basically, Google Earth ruler says from where I suggested they might park, all the way south to Howland Hill Rd. straight up, is 2.8 miles. And from the campground at west, to the edge of Crescent City, California is about 3.5 to 4 miles.

Go to this MAP here, and enlarge to about 200%.

http://www.nps.gov/carto/PDF/REDWmap1.pdf

It will show details of Hy. 199. Now, the map has north upward, and my image below has north toward the bottom. Both the map, and my diagram, show the pre-existing hiking trails. The Grove of Titans has to be between those, almost certainly. The pink area is where I would begin to look.

You could find a TOPOGRAPHY MAP at topozone.com, but REMEMBER, the article said that the topography maps WERE WRONG. The only reason I'd even use the topography map, is to try and find the "WARREN" of small valleys around a peak on the map, even though the map is wrong, because they still headed for what they thought that feature was.

Google Earth's satellite imagery is probably going to be better than a topo map for accuracy. Be sure to tilt the horizon to see the hills and valleys better. I also grab the rotator and spin it around to look at it from every angle. That's how I figured out the hill of Blue Ledge Mine in our area.

If I find the trees, I won't disclose the exact nature of where they are. The illustrations here show no more than what an existing article already somewhat implies. If I do find them, I will share photos and video though. My plan, hopefully, is to go next week.

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bigshea13

very good read. you guys got me surfin and looking now. in todays day and age , with planes and choppers, how do you think they were over looked for so long. if those two were able to stumble across the grove in a day? ive never seen a redwood in person but it an achivement i hope to someday reach. thanks for the read guys, interesting.

mdvaden

This morning, I sent a brief email to Steve Sillette, the co-discoverer of the Grove of Titans, regarding the article, mentioning that I may give a shot at putting the clues together. Also mentioned I won't disclose anything more descriptive about location if I find the grove. He replied briefly...

Sounds a bit encouraging, anyhow. Later this afternoon, I gave another read to this article, where he is included as one of the climbers...

Cimbing the Redwoods - Richard Preston

One part I enjoyed about that one, was mention of all the plant and lichen life in the tree. Can you imagine, it took 15 minutes or so, for Steve to find his wife in the tree. I've never spoken with them before, or even emailed. I think it's a slick deal that they both climb and study similar things, so that the forest and travel keeps them together.

Yesterday, I noticed that the Lost Monarch redwood, has a wider base than General Sherman the sequoia. Today, I found out that Lost Monarch, though it tapers, is still within about 31 points of General Sherman in the over 1000 point range.

Hey, now I can't add any specific spots on an image as to where I plan to hunt, in case I find them. I already picked where I want to go in, and where I plan to come out. If I cross a ridge and don't use the same return path, that doubles the territory covered on a single hike. I'll be taking both my digital camera and my video camera on this one. Even if I don't find it, it's going to be a grand time in the redwoods.

So for size comparison, here are 3 trees in that area, and the titans will be bigger than all of these. The one where I'm kneeling in a blue shirt, is Simpson Reed grove, not far from where they probably parked: along Hy. 199. The yellow shirt image is on Boy Scout Tree trail. The other where I have a jacket on, is the biggest seen by the public in that park - that's the Stout Tree in Stout Grove, where they found the man photographing. And I am estimating the Grove of Titans to be within 2 miles of this tree via a straight line.

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Eric Frei

Lucky bastid, I wouldn't mind going in there either, least it wont be boiling hot.

Make a few days out of it in case you dont nail it first day.

I dare say from the air it would all look much the same and seeing a fat trunk at ground level through 300' high canopies is pretty unlikely.

So that was a road not a track with the bridge I marked, that's the road you need to come north from, I'd be picking the closest point and near the river, figure it's easier to travel river banks and those guys said they had trouble getting high ground anyway.

This'll be good Mario, also lift that pic of Prestons coz we're just leeching it at the moment. Then when you find it take one at exactly the same angle.

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mdvaden

In summer a footbridge is set over the river by the campground it seems.

Agree about view from above.

If I find it I'll try to remember to get you a souvenir !! Cone? Needles?

Must be already off, tiny & inconsequential.

RandyMac

You-all are talkin' about my backyard, I've spent most of my life in Humboldt and Del Norte counties. I live in Crescent City. There are a few untouched places were pockets of superb groves exist. Most remain "hidden" to keep the public from screwing them up. Folks wandering around the bases have caused soil compaction, several popular trees have suffered greatly, some are dying. Fortunately, the average tourist won't go 50 yards from the car. I know of trees that surpass the "public" giants, there is a Redwood (coastal) that taped out at 26' dbh, it lives in Del Norte. I participated in the falling of a stovepipe that was close to 25' dia. @ the stump. In the '50s, Redwood Valley, near Orick, record sized trees were logged often enough, to have the companies cover up what went on there.
As far as Humboldt goes, you had better hurry, the condition of the Bull Creek Redwoods is deteriorating fast, climate changes due to logging around the park has caused irreversable damage. Humboldt Redwoods State Park is an island in a sea of clearcuts, most of which date back to the '40s and '50s. The heavily mechanized logging of that era, through the '60s, took the bulk of the timber, there was little concern for anything but getting the timber out.
The best of what is left, is in northern Humboldt and Del Norte.

RandyMac

Eric Frei

Well there you go, that's just a hop step and a jump away from you, maybe you can team up and call yourselves the Mario Brothers. Zig Zag through the forest and dodge the obstacles.

Surely you couldn't miss that opportunity.

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mdvaden

Tick...Tock...Tick...Tock...

Tomorrow morning is our exploring. Time is ticking down. Got my work and bookkeeping caught up, and we've moved my wife's mom's stuff to her new house.

Bought a new down vest today for me, and 2 pairs of gloves for my son.

Extra fuel bottle for the mini-stove, freeze dried beef stroganoff meals, 4 giant snickers bars, almonds and tea bags.

Should be a fine weather day. Some clouds, with some clearing. Highs about 48 degrees Farenheit.

Actually, I've enjoyed every single on of my hikes and adventures in the redwood forest. I hiked there about 15 times last year - mostly using the trails.

There is a lot of nice stuff in there besides the redwoods too. If anyone is into fishing, there's that too, in the Smith River.

RandyMac

When I was a kid, we lived on the hill over False Klamath Cove, at the south end of Last Chance Grade. One of the things we did was walk the old 101 towards Crescent City, very nice forest through there. There is still some of the old road showing through, even a paint stripe here and there. In some places you can see where the road crew used axes to chop root flare out to squeeze the road through.
Our Governator is in the process of closing some State Parks, one of them is Mill Creek, one of the access points to the Titans. Mill Creek is one of the nicest parks, well away from the hwy.
Winter is a good time to cruise the trees, less people, no fire danger, fewer bugs like ticks, and the undergrowth doesn't block the view much. We are also begining our mid-winter weather break, could be dry for a week or ten days.

windthrown

Yah, supposed to be dry here for a week! The MUD gods are appeased.

As for redwoods, in the past 2 years, they have measured about 10 trees that are taller than the previous tallest redwoods. I have done a lot of off-roading around there, and I have seen a few big trees.

Up here I look for the big Doug firs. Places like Bull of the Woods, Avenue of the Giants, and other places that have big trees and are just as guarded about how to get into them. The biggest official Doug is about 30 miles from here.

RandyMac

Mud Gods, you are a funny guy. Once in a great while I wonder what kinda stuff you are up to over at the other site. Still writing stories?

windthrown

No, no more stories. I started one about Saw Troll and Saw Witch on safari in Afrika a few months ago, but they hyjacked the thread and wanted SawWitch to meet Tarzan. So I let it drop. Now it is more about bar oil debates and the usual insanity, but some about the floods and storms and some info about saws.

RandyMac

Tarzan!!!??? and the Witch in Afrika? oh my. I sometimes miss locking horns with the wannabes, but not so much, as George the First said "a kinder, more genital world"

windthrown

Eh... its the same, "which saw should I buy," threads all the time. Or which oil should I use. Or way right-shifted politics. I post a lot of polls for amusement there of late. Someone even started a thread bashing me for posting so many polls there.

RandyMac

Sounds like business as usual. The kid stayin' out of trouble? He gave the old Mac back to me, said it was too pretty to use, wanted a smaller saw, I'm thinkin' a 15 pound reduction in weight was what he was looking for.
Post a poll on sprocket tip grease.

mdvaden

Made it back. Man, was that a workout. 3 hours in and 3 hours back, slow-going the whole way. What a thick forest. A few logs were obstacles, a few were "lifesavers" like one that bridged a small ravine. That 150 feet of log cut 10 minutes of bushwhacking.

We may have spotted the location on our return loop, spotting a tree from a distance that may be the double "Screaming Titan". But it was too dark to get a photo, and our legs were too tired.

I won't know for certain one way or the other, until I go back in a week or two and see close-up. And with a measuring tape.

Found a couple of cool things, including this huge conk.

Also, the burl / canker in one image below is huge. Totally encompasses the whole trunk. The growth is about 9' in diameter - up about 80'. The trunk extends up above it, relatively straight and normal.

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Eric Frei

Nice pics.

Did you get to those spots I circled? Like can you show it on the map?

I want to see how much ground you covered in a day.

What sort of fruiting body is that red guy? It's a big one.

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mdvaden

I PM'd you some of what I can't post.

We went in to the forest about 1 to 1.5 miles. And that took us 3 hours of hard work each way. 6 hours total.

Two more images. One is a trunk (not a Titan) we passed on our way into the forest. We passed quite a few this size. The other image is a low limb of a Big Leaf Maple - most of the maple was coated with foot-long festoones of moss like that.

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RandyMac

You had a good day for a walk through the forest, windy and cold at the coast. It is nice that those who venture off the trails, feel that they have discovered something that no-one else has seen.

azrael

Truly awesome stuff. Well done Great pics.
....eagerly await the outcome of the next expedition.

azrael

This link is a radio interview with Richard Preston "The Wild Trees". Its about an 45 mins long, all up.
WAMU 88.5 FM American University Radio - The Diane Rehm Show for Monday April 16, 2007

mdvaden

So I discovered that I did find the Del Norte Titan.

I can't explain how I know, without possibly giving away too much information.

Now maybe I can get some close-up pics.

Really, once you get into a forest like that, whether a tree has the largest trunk, or a trunk 2/3s as big, becomes a bit inconsequential.

But I thought the hunt would be a fun change. Besides, it got me at least a mile into the deep rain-forest where I may not otherwise have gone.

Have you read that the Redwoods have far more bio-mass than other rainforests on Earth? Per acre or square mile that is. Apparently more dense in areas, and much taller.

I found a few photos of redwoods that were like vertical panoramas. Vertical photo-stitch images. I'd like to see if I can make a few like that.

newguy18

Now I'm gonna have to find it and climb it.

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old schooler

mdvaden

Hey... look at it this way...

If you can find the thing - go for it.

I'm not sure what kind of laws might be broken. Be sure to check in case you need to bring money to get bailed out of jail.

Another way to approach this, if you attempt a "Ninja climb" - don't climb the most protected, but some other big ones. Odds are, that some of the younger ones that are like 500 years old, may be as tall as or taller than that one. It has the most massive redwood trunk, but it's about 307 feet tall. That's not extremely tall. You could easily sneak into the woods about 1/2 hour of bushwhacking and select another hefty one.

It would sure be dissappointing to see you climb the wrong tree the wrong time of year, and interfere with an endangered species bird, because that may involve a federal law. And we'd be sorry to see you disappear from the forum for a while by accidentally becoming a felon.

Then there would be these giant size Titan felons called Bubba wanting to do some Ninja exploration.