Parliament Sittings Arborist Industry Regulation

Apocalypsse · 9th March 2011, 10:35 PM

Has anyone been paying attention to the latest meetings? My friend has been quoting me stuff but I can't find anything solid to back up his quote from the radio. It was stuff about setting up a government body to regulate the industry, have an independent group review the industry for safety etc, drop us in with the CFMEU, setup an approved list of machinery/gear and more stuff. I'm trying to find some solid info hear or minutes to get a proper idea of what was said. From what my friend was saying its been put on the back burner until new Parliament comes in July.

Eric Frei · 10th March 2011, 07:31 AM

I haven't heard anything but would like to get in the ear of the independent review body to let them know about the orgs and their bullying plus inherent defects.

This is what we have been asking for, and we do not want anything else but a govt body to look over us.

Apocalypsse · 10th March 2011, 09:00 AM

This is what my friend has quoted to me on msn over the last few days. This is all just up for debate atm and still months away from finding out if it will be passed or not. He listens to the sittings on the radio so he quotes me a few things.

Quote:

-well the lower house introduced a bill to parliament to review standards and operations of the forestry industry

-in addition to that a senate committee and new as yet to be named person is going to be conducting a wide ranging review into the arborist industry

-the terms of reference will be broad and will look into safe and unsafe practices, wages and employment

-an industry ombudsman and organisation will be established by 2013

-one of the liberals in the lower house from WA wants instead of a separate union for the arborist industry to be a part of the CFMEU, he believes this will save unnecessary money creating a union body and that arborists could be well looked after by the above body

-one of the independents will seek to negotiate a creation of Australian Accreditation Standards for the industry, to which all companies must apply and meet all the specific codes and requirements, he wants companies to apply for an official licenses and permits of which records will be maintained so that rogues can be eliminated

-The Greens position on the industry is that workers in the trade have a minimum of 2500 hours practical training, either through apprenticeships or university courses, and that all workers undergo professional development and practical training programs every 3 years to acquire and refresh skills

-they also seek to negotiate that all instructors delivering courses meet a set of agreed standards which includes solid experience so that best only deliver the best

-the really interesting aspect they want to negotiate and thereby introduce in the bill are 'undercover field assessments, whereby officials from the department of agriculture, local councils, and those from the newly constructed arborist organisation will act undercover to overlook as many jobs

-the greens want to introduce tough new penalties to 'eliminate rogue operators', include warnings, fines and jail terms with an automatic ban from practice

-the govt currently believes the total worth of the arborist industry to be about 4.6 billion dollars, and it will seek to arm the overseeing body with sufficient funds to ensure those who need a helping hand can get the provisions they need

-oh yes i nearly forgot one of the sticking points for the arborist Bill is that some of the politicians including the independents want companies to only use equipment from a proscribed list brands which are reputable and reliable

Apocalypsse · 10th March 2011, 08:30 PM

Bumpity, anyone out there heard anything about this?

Eric Frei · 10th March 2011, 08:55 PM

The word is out mate, be patient.

I'm going to lobby like hell to stop the orgs getting anywhere near this. I have a stack of evidence to submit, phone calls the lot.

pukunui · 10th March 2011, 09:51 PM

Very interesting and will hopefully be a real positive long term.

ArbTrain · 13th March 2011, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalypsse

Has anyone been paying attention to the latest meetings? My friend has been quoting me stuff but I can't find anything solid to back up his quote from the radio. It was stuff about setting up a government body to regulate the industry, have an independent group review the industry for safety etc, drop us in with the CFMEU, setup an approved list of machinery/gear and more stuff. I'm trying to find some solid info hear or minutes to get a proper idea of what was said. From what my friend was saying its been put on the back burner until new Parliament comes in July.

I have not heard anything in my training work and recenlt work both east coast & west,, no such rumour did i hear,, but any reforms / regulatory body that can get rid of blokes / teams . with a ute and a chainsaw and a singlet and a baseball cap calling themselves arborists and bringing down the whole industry has got to be good.. More than half the guys i know in the private game dont even have aprop. tickets.. not cowboys- just think they dont need them so why pay? ,, and their bosses are of the same opinion

Eric Frei · 13th March 2011, 08:45 AM

LOL, I'm surprised "The Greens" didn't make it 2.5million hours so no-one gets to cut a tree.

Quote:

The Greens position on the industry is that workers in the trade have a minimum of 2500 hours practical training, either through apprenticeships or university courses, and that all workers undergo professional development and practical training programs every 3 years to acquire and refresh skills

Does a carpenter or mechanic have to recertify etc every 3 years? Gee how much has the tree felling techniques changed in 30 years?

2500 hours practical training, bollocks!

Lets get something straight about this whole thing.

1/ The training aspect is not broken, so it doesn't need fixing. We have the AQF system with RTO's. If there is a deficiency by either a trainer or RTO then that can be dealt with under the current system appropriately. Having some minimal qualification level is all you might need, like say certIII. But, there is sufficient OH&S regulation now that covers this.

2/ Anybody ripped off or sustaining damage etc from "cowboys" also have existing appropriate measures to take, starting with Dept of Fair Trading etc. In my experience you'd be lucky if 1 in 100 took action, most just whine. And under what law can you take action for say topping? Heck we see government do topping all the time, we even see consultants write specs for it to. There's only an Australian Standard for pruning, it is not a law and has no penalty units attached to it. About all a client could do for a spur climbed topping is take civil action for damages .... do you think some new "body" is going to get involved in that mess? I don't and if they do they will make it worse I assure you.

3/ The ABN system is not enough for consumers to pursue a "cowboy" so all we need is a register, like the BSA here. If you are registered with a special number that makes you not legit but pursuable and accountable. Not legit because there's many dodgy builders still, it just means people have a place to dob you in to.... but like I said before they already can dob you in elsewhere anyway. Now the BSA here does not compel you to be a member of specific orgs. You go there, show them your tickets and work, get licensed. It's not for them to educate or train you. But shouldn't a customer be a little more prudent in checking your ABN and business details alleviating all this additional red tape and expense? Of course they should.

Now I assure you that with the likes of Arboriculture Australia (rebadged American ISA in Australia

) they want recerts etc built in so they can make money off you. So people are compelled to spend money on seminars and workshops.

You really want to compel some-one like me to go to them to tell me what I already know .... then get their piece of paper to say I went and I can keep my job?!

Wake up people, smell the roses here.

Eric Frei · 13th March 2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

-the govt currently believes the total worth of the arborist industry to be about 4.6 billion dollars

Where did they get this number from, we're talking aminity trees here not forestry or power wire trimming etc?

Quote:

the terms of reference will be broad and will look into safe and unsafe practices, wages and employment

There's already enough OH&S out about this, why reinvent the wheel?

The wages issue can be easily accomodated with an award, failing that we pay according to minimum adult wage or horticultural equivalent etc.

There's sufficient employment laws, from casuals to permanents.

It appears to me that some-one is pushing a hidden agenda as we have a lot of laws and regulations already.

Quote:

so that rogues can be eliminated

It hasn't eliminated them in other countries (UK for instance). Even the BSA here has not eliminated the rogues.

So what happens to all the gardeners, horticulturists, lawn mower men etc when the want to trim a bush or tree? What about this type of stuff in the botanical gardens?

We have:-

Door Knocking Laws
AQF Training
OH&S
National Consumer Law
AS4373 Pruning Standard/ Guide

I'll conclude that the rogues are operating because the government and the consumers let them, there is sufficient education and law in place already.

Eric Frei · 13th March 2011, 08:23 PM

Here's an excellent paper written in 2006 by Consumer Affairs Victoria about stopping ROGUE TRADERS.

Jeff Darby · 13th March 2011, 09:02 PM

Hidden agendas are more than likely behind this. Is it a group of people who want to control the industry for there own benefit but to be seen as doing the right thing?.

However if you mention this observation to any one you are tarred as a trouble maker ! how many times by the time you hear of some thing, it's to late to even have a say. If a governing body is to oversee our industry who will be the people that have the power? who will watch them watching us so it all stays transparent and accountable?

In my opinion we need to really step up to the plate as an industry and monitor how this is going to be set up and implemented. Maybe the first place to start is to "Define a cowboy" This was recently put to me, and i'm still thinking about it !

People take note if this is to happen we really need people in these positions who can put their personal opinions to one side and address the matter at hand with out consideration of who it is or what they can do for you if I treat them as a mate...

KevinE · 14th March 2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Frei

Where did they get this number from, we're talking aminity trees here not forestry or power wire trimming etc?

Probably from the tax returns of anyone nominating their employment as within the arb industry via the bureau of stats.

Brent Ferris · 14th March 2011, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayD

Hidden agendas are more than likely behind this. Is it a group of people who want to control the industry for there own benefit but to be seen as doing the right thing?.

However if you mention this observation to any one you are tarred as a trouble maker ! how many times by the time you hear of some thing, it's to late to even have a say. If a governing body is to oversee our industry who will be the people that have the power? who will watch them watching us so it all stays transparent and accountable?

In my opinion we need to really step up to the plate as an industry and monitor how this is going to be set up and implemented. Maybe the first place to start is to "Define a cowboy" This was recently put to me, and i'm still thinking about it !

People take note if this is to happen we really need people in these positions who can put their personal opinions to one side and address the matter at hand with out consideration of who it is or what they can do for you if I treat them as a mate...

Well said JayD -- don't expect that hoping it will all turn out right will work - it never does -- all you get is worse than you thought possible

If this is really going to happen, be sure to educate some politicians to your way of thinking first

jmcg.insight.gardens · 14th March 2011, 07:00 PM

Well the only two things being investigated at the moment that I can find is tabled as

Quote:

Inquiry into the Australian forestry industry
On 7 February 2011 the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry asked the Committee to undertake an inquiry into the Australian forestry industry.
The Committee invites interested persons and organisations to make submissions addressing the terms of reference by Friday 25 March 2011.
For further information on submissions, please refer to the brochure preparing a submission.
Terms of reference
Submissions
Public hearings
Media releases
Report

________________________________________
Last reviewed 21 February, 2011 by Committee Secretariat
© Commonwealth of Australia
Parliament of Australia Web Site Privacy Statement

Standing Committee on Agriculture, Resources, Fisheries and Forestry: Inquiry into the Australian forestry industry homepage

Quote:

Parliament of Australia: Senate: Committees: Education, Employment and Workplace Relations Committee: Inquiry into Industry Skills Councils
Inquiry into Industry Skills Councils
• Information about the Inquiry
• Terms of Reference
• Getting involved in Senate Committee inquiries
• Upload Submission Online
• Submissions Received
• Public Hearings and Transcripts
• Interim Report

For further information, contact:
Committee Secretary
Senate Education, Employment and Workplace Relations Committees
PO Box 6100
Parliament House
Canberra ACT 2600
Australia

Lots of forestry training outfits have made a submission to the latter.

I suggest that you keep an eye on the inquiries current & up and coming and put in a say if any thing on Arboriculture comes up. There is a current inquiry page and upcoming inquiry page. Worth keeping an eye on.

Couldn't find any relevant minutes, do you know when the session was dated? My guess if your friend is correct it has been tabled for the next sitting.

Anybody can make a submission to these inquiries.

Apocalypsse · 14th March 2011, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmcg.insight.gardens

Couldn't find any relevant minutes, do you know when the session was dated? My guess if your friend is correct it has been tabled for the next sitting.

The date on my msn history says 4th March.

jmcg.insight.gardens · 14th March 2011, 11:36 PM

well had a bit of a look, the calender for sittings is here, if it was debated then it makes sense that it was at the start of March or late Febuary. Try the following link, all info can be accessed here.

Had a look at 1,2,3rd March, nothing mentioned, unless I missed it.

Parliament of Australia: Senate: Daily Summary

or it will be in the question time in one of these podcasts

ABC News Radio

So now back to my assessment.

Julie

Eric Frei · 19th March 2011, 06:09 PM

Use your brains here people, be critical and think this through.

Here's a piece that was published in the paper last year.

Quote:

Mr Sharpe had pushed to develop a statewide industry body to improve safety on the job.

Joining him on his campaign was Hobart-based arborist Jerry Romanski, who said even highly trained arborists such as Mr Sharpe put their lives in danger on a regular basis.

"Scott was a very skilled and very productive member of the industry and he's worked himself recently, as well as in industry bodies, to improve safety standards," he said.

"Our industry is very poorly regulated and there are not adequate licensing requirements to carry out the work that we do - they're most certainly putting their lives at risk.

"We need to have industry members licensed to carry out the work we do because at the moment anyone with a chainsaw can carry out tree surgery.

The very person, well praised and an expert was killed on the job.

So, you think a bunch of paperwork and fees etc is the solution?

Think long and hard.

Also do not forget that organisations raise themselves to the alter like Gods of how ordained they are, but case after case you will see that is not the situation at all.

Eric Frei · 28th April 2011, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Frei

The word is out mate, be patient.

I'm going to lobby like hell to stop the orgs getting anywhere near this. I have a stack of evidence to submit, phone calls the lot.

Here's 15 messages left from AA board member (formerly NAAA Board member).

Jeff Darby · 28th April 2011, 07:36 AM

Unbelievable !! Anyone that leaves messages like these ones definately is starting to fall into the abyss of insanity ! Could you imagine this one with his finger on the fireing button of the worlds nuclear arsenal...I shudder with the thought! I feel he needs to leave the alcohol alone. shame...shame..shame. Is he really a figure head for our industry?? Obliviously it's time to take a long hard look at our industry organisations!

sounds like a good deadwooding is required...

9th March 2011, 10:35 PM	#1
Apocalypsse Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,152	Parliament Sittings Arborist Industry Regulation Has anyone been paying attention to the latest meetings? My friend has been quoting me stuff but I can't find anything solid to back up his quote from the radio. It was stuff about setting up a government body to regulate the industry, have an independent group review the industry for safety etc, drop us in with the CFMEU, setup an approved list of machinery/gear and more stuff. I'm trying to find some solid info hear or minutes to get a proper idea of what was said. From what my friend was saying its been put on the back burner until new Parliament comes in July.

10th March 2011, 07:31 AM	#2
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,994	Re: Parliament Sittings re: Arb Industry I haven't heard anything but would like to get in the ear of the independent review body to let them know about the orgs and their bullying plus inherent defects. This is what we have been asking for, and we do not want anything else but a govt body to look over us. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

10th March 2011, 08:30 PM	#4
Apocalypsse Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,152	Re: Parliament Sittings re: Arb Industry Bumpity, anyone out there heard anything about this?

10th March 2011, 08:55 PM	#5
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,994	Re: Parliament Sittings re: Arb Industry The word is out mate, be patient. I'm going to lobby like hell to stop the orgs getting anywhere near this. I have a stack of evidence to submit, phone calls the lot. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

10th March 2011, 09:51 PM	#6
pukunui Sappling Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 33	Re: Parliament Sittings re: Arb Industry Very interesting and will hopefully be a real positive long term.

13th March 2011, 08:23 PM	#10
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,994	Re: Parliament Sittings re: Arb Industry Here's an excellent paper written in 2006 by Consumer Affairs Victoria about stopping ROGUE TRADERS. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

13th March 2011, 09:02 PM	#11
Jeff Darby Moderator - Previously known as JayD Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: TreeWorld, Sydney Australia Posts: 2,059	Re: Parliament Sittings re: Arb Industry Hidden agendas are more than likely behind this. Is it a group of people who want to control the industry for there own benefit but to be seen as doing the right thing?. However if you mention this observation to any one you are tarred as a trouble maker ! how many times by the time you hear of some thing, it's to late to even have a say. If a governing body is to oversee our industry who will be the people that have the power? who will watch them watching us so it all stays transparent and accountable? In my opinion we need to really step up to the plate as an industry and monitor how this is going to be set up and implemented. Maybe the first place to start is to "Define a cowboy" This was recently put to me, and i'm still thinking about it ! People take note if this is to happen we really need people in these positions who can put their personal opinions to one side and address the matter at hand with out consideration of who it is or what they can do for you if I treat them as a mate... __________________ Member: Australian Tree Association Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard ! Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others © Jeffrey J Darby 2011

14th March 2011, 11:36 PM	#16
jmcg.insight.gardens Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Mannering Park, Australia Posts: 623	Re: Parliament Sittings re: Arb Industry well had a bit of a look, the calender for sittings is here, if it was debated then it makes sense that it was at the start of March or late Febuary. Try the following link, all info can be accessed here. Had a look at 1,2,3rd March, nothing mentioned, unless I missed it. Parliament of Australia: Senate: Daily Summary or it will be in the question time in one of these podcasts ABC News Radio So now back to my assessment. Julie

28th April 2011, 07:36 AM	#19
Jeff Darby Moderator - Previously known as JayD Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: TreeWorld, Sydney Australia Posts: 2,059	Re: Parliament Sittings re: Arb Industry Unbelievable !! Anyone that leaves messages like these ones definately is starting to fall into the abyss of insanity ! Could you imagine this one with his finger on the fireing button of the worlds nuclear arsenal...I shudder with the thought! I feel he needs to leave the alcohol alone. shame...shame..shame. Is he really a figure head for our industry?? Obliviously it's time to take a long hard look at our industry organisations! sounds like a good deadwooding is required... __________________ Member: Australian Tree Association Join the Australian Tree Association...Have your voice heard ! Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others © Jeffrey J Darby 2011

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