Palms around above ground pool

playfordtree · 18th November 2007, 01:24 AM

I guess now's not a good time time to ask "what sort of palms should i plant around our new pool."

We want to go for the "tropical look"

Funny how you always want what you don't have.
I bet you guys in Queensland would kill for a english cottage garden.

Seriously though ya got any ideas?
i have already planted some "banana palms" and monsterias, but want to put some other palms in.

We have plenty of room so space isn't a prob.

I quite like bangalows, so something along those lines.

Oh,

and no smartass answers like "pop in half a dozen washingtonias",
ya flaming mongrels.

Ekka · 18th November 2007, 02:12 AM

I will give you some very very sound advice pertaining to palms around pools.

1/ Ensure 1m away from concrete pool wall/foundation etc to CLOSEST EDGE OF MATURE TRUNK.

2/ Beware if planting clumping varieties or you may break rule 1 above.

3/ Ensure palms roots have space to grow in opposite direction to pool, not good if opposite direction to pool is brick fence or retaining wall.

4/ Do not plant monocarpic species.

5/ Most palms will grow 15m to 20m tall and all get some sort of berries, select slow growing varieties.

6/ Do not plant above or near pipes, they will break them.

There's a BIG FALACY about palm roots.

Watch this video 10.7mb WMV and 2.05mins

http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/palmroots.wmv

Slow growing palms.

Spindle palm, Kentia Palm, Majestic palm, Triangle palm.

Small palm.

Cascade palm (chamaedorea atrovirens) can take full sun unlike parlour palm (chamaedorea elegans or bamboo palm).

Some alternative foliage stuff to add colour yet keep tropical, crotons, tri-coloured draecena, sacred bamboo (nandina domestic nana), cordylines

Also dont overlook the value of some stunners where pool water overflow wont get them, Agave, Xanthorrhoea (grass trees) and cycads .

Tropical is a blending of both under story and canopy, but the hard part with palms is their height ... bangalows are a shocker, much skinnier than an Alexandra but just as tall.

playfordtree · 20th November 2007, 05:40 PM

Thanks for advice on palms Ekka.

Heres a pic of the pool just after we put it up, we erected it ourselves it was a sh*t of a job, but saved $2,500 on installation costs!
(if anyone wants advice on putting up above ground pools feel free to ask)

Roots shouldn't be a problem, also behind fence is empty paddocks
We plan to concrete around pool to about 1.5m out, then build some sort of "bali hut" at the rear.

This will leave a garden bed for planting about 1.5m wide.

Ekka · 20th November 2007, 07:45 PM

Oh, bad news for you.

The bottom of your pool (the liner) will feel like walking on worms in a few years with palms unless you install ROOT BARRIER some 600mm deep the perimeter of your pool.

Trust me on this, damp sand, those palms smell that cool lined sand pit from further than an Ethiopian blow fly to a Tasmanian BBQ.

Sean Freeman · 20th November 2007, 09:23 PM

Eric's right put int he root barrier should't cost too much easy to install with no landscaping there, any good sized nursery should be able to provide a good range of root barriers.

playfordtree · 20th November 2007, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Ethiopian blow fly to a Tasmanian BBQ.

Thanks boys,
what would i do without youse.

playfordtree · 21st November 2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Oh, bad news for you.

The bottom of your pool (the liner) will fell like walking on worms in a few years with palms unless you install ROOT BARRIER some 600mm deep the perimeter of your pool.

Trust me on this, damp sand, those palms smell that cool lined sand pit from further than an Ethiopian blow fly to a Tasmanian BBQ.

Regarding the root barrier, i forgot that when we put the pool up we laid thick black plastic on the ground first.
Then we put the sand down, then the liner on top.
Also the nearest palm will be 2.5m from pool edge.
Do you still think i will need the barrier?

newguy18 · 21st November 2007, 07:27 PM

i'd put it in just to be on the safe side.I'm not sure about palms but as for most any other tree the roots go 3 times farther than the canopy.

Sean Freeman · 21st November 2007, 08:12 PM

Amost definate yes, any waterproof membrane laid over the top of the soil grade will every morning create a film of condensation, this cycle of water formation increases the relative moisture content of theupper portion of the soil profile, it is an attractive environment for fine root growth, the spreading of sand to form a level and sharp object free surface also increases the attraction to fine root growth. many of us have seen the disasterous results of paving over weed mat and fine leveled sand in the presence of trees/palms/or even shrubs.

newguy18 · 21st November 2007, 08:30 PM

I haven't seen any palm damage to paved surfaces but I've seen plenty of oak damage.

Ekka · 22nd November 2007, 12:01 AM

But the bottom of the pool isn't paved or concrete it's a vinyl liner and the smallest impressions or roots will be felt and seen.

I know this from experience and cutting bus loads of palms down around pools, including many above ground pools.

In one yard the pool was in the middle and the palms along the fenceline some 4m away, the bottom of the pool looked like a road map! When they got rid of the pool I went back to cut the palms down, it was just thick with small roots, not much bigger than a pencil and tons of little hairy ones. Obviously enough air there.

This is normal, dont under estimate palm roots, they travel for a long distance and when people say palms dont have big root systems .... define big? Yeah, you wont see no 8" dia mother roots etc but there's thousands of these little buggers the size of pencils going everywhere, they dont blow over in sand much do they?

playfordtree · 22nd November 2007, 03:41 AM

Heres a diagram of the pool base.
I understand what your saying about just having a liner on top of sand and nothing underneath the sand, but i was thinking that the roots wouldn't be able to get thru the black plastic.
Or are they that aggressive that they would bypass the plastic as well?

Ekka · 22nd November 2007, 03:54 AM

Yeah I know what you mean, how thick is that black plastic and the roots cant get in from the sides can they?

playfordtree · 23rd November 2007, 10:13 PM

The black plastic is probably 1.5-2.5mm thick, i cant really remember, i just bought the thickest chit i could get.
There is a small gap between plastic and base of pool.
Also when we laid the sheet down it wasn't one piece, we had to lay a couple of bits to get complete coverage, one peice overlays the other.
So maybe the roots could get in between the two sheets?
I think i might just err on the side of caution and put the barrier in.

(dammit that means i have to dig holes, i hate diggen holes, im a treelopper not a bloody ditchdigger)

Ekka · 23rd November 2007, 10:17 PM

LOL

It's a bugger to dig up here mate, soil is like concrete.

pomme · 24th November 2007, 09:49 AM

18th November 2007, 01:24 AM	#1 (permalink)
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 340	Palms around above ground pool I guess now's not a good time time to ask "what sort of palms should i plant around our new pool." We want to go for the "tropical look" Funny how you always want what you don't have. I bet you guys in Queensland would kill for a english cottage garden. Seriously though ya got any ideas? i have already planted some "banana palms" and monsterias, but want to put some other palms in. We have plenty of room so space isn't a prob. I quite like bangalows, so something along those lines. Oh, and no smartass answers like "pop in half a dozen washingtonias", ya flaming mongrels. __________________ I Drink Therefore I am.

18th November 2007, 02:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Palms around pools I will give you some very very sound advice pertaining to palms around pools. 1/ Ensure 1m away from concrete pool wall/foundation etc to CLOSEST EDGE OF MATURE TRUNK. 2/ Beware if planting clumping varieties or you may break rule 1 above. 3/ Ensure palms roots have space to grow in opposite direction to pool, not good if opposite direction to pool is brick fence or retaining wall. 4/ Do not plant monocarpic species. 5/ Most palms will grow 15m to 20m tall and all get some sort of berries, select slow growing varieties. 6/ Do not plant above or near pipes, they will break them. There's a BIG FALACY about palm roots. Watch this video 10.7mb WMV and 2.05mins http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/palmroots.wmv Slow growing palms. Spindle palm, Kentia Palm, Majestic palm, Triangle palm. Small palm. Cascade palm (chamaedorea atrovirens) can take full sun unlike parlour palm (chamaedorea elegans or bamboo palm). Some alternative foliage stuff to add colour yet keep tropical, crotons, tri-coloured draecena, sacred bamboo (nandina domestic nana), cordylines Also dont overlook the value of some stunners where pool water overflow wont get them, Agave, Xanthorrhoea (grass trees) and cycads . Tropical is a blending of both under story and canopy, but the hard part with palms is their height ... bangalows are a shocker, much skinnier than an Alexandra but just as tall. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

20th November 2007, 07:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Palms around above ground pool Oh, bad news for you. The bottom of your pool (the liner) will feel like walking on worms in a few years with palms unless you install ROOT BARRIER some 600mm deep the perimeter of your pool. Trust me on this, damp sand, those palms smell that cool lined sand pit from further than an Ethiopian blow fly to a Tasmanian BBQ. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

20th November 2007, 09:23 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Palms around above ground pool Eric's right put int he root barrier should't cost too much easy to install with no landscaping there, any good sized nursery should be able to provide a good range of root barriers. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

21st November 2007, 07:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,683	Palms around above ground pool i'd put it in just to be on the safe side.I'm not sure about palms but as for most any other tree the roots go 3 times farther than the canopy. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

21st November 2007, 08:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Palms around above ground pool Amost definate yes, any waterproof membrane laid over the top of the soil grade will every morning create a film of condensation, this cycle of water formation increases the relative moisture content of theupper portion of the soil profile, it is an attractive environment for fine root growth, the spreading of sand to form a level and sharp object free surface also increases the attraction to fine root growth. many of us have seen the disasterous results of paving over weed mat and fine leveled sand in the presence of trees/palms/or even shrubs. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

21st November 2007, 08:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,683	Palms around above ground pool I haven't seen any palm damage to paved surfaces but I've seen plenty of oak damage. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

22nd November 2007, 12:01 AM	#11 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Palms around above ground pool But the bottom of the pool isn't paved or concrete it's a vinyl liner and the smallest impressions or roots will be felt and seen. I know this from experience and cutting bus loads of palms down around pools, including many above ground pools. In one yard the pool was in the middle and the palms along the fenceline some 4m away, the bottom of the pool looked like a road map! When they got rid of the pool I went back to cut the palms down, it was just thick with small roots, not much bigger than a pencil and tons of little hairy ones. Obviously enough air there. This is normal, dont under estimate palm roots, they travel for a long distance and when people say palms dont have big root systems .... define big? Yeah, you wont see no 8" dia mother roots etc but there's thousands of these little buggers the size of pencils going everywhere, they dont blow over in sand much do they? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

22nd November 2007, 03:54 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Palms around above ground pool Yeah I know what you mean, how thick is that black plastic and the roots cant get in from the sides can they? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

23rd November 2007, 10:13 PM	#14 (permalink)
playfordtree Mature tree Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Adelaide Australia Posts: 340	Palms around above ground pool The black plastic is probably 1.5-2.5mm thick, i cant really remember, i just bought the thickest chit i could get. There is a small gap between plastic and base of pool. Also when we laid the sheet down it wasn't one piece, we had to lay a couple of bits to get complete coverage, one peice overlays the other. So maybe the roots could get in between the two sheets? I think i might just err on the side of caution and put the barrier in. (dammit that means i have to dig holes, i hate diggen holes, im a treelopper not a bloody ditchdigger) __________________ I Drink Therefore I am.

23rd November 2007, 10:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Palms around above ground pool LOL It's a bugger to dig up here mate, soil is like concrete. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

24th November 2007, 09:49 AM	#16 (permalink)
pomme Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: england Posts: 220	Palms around above ground pool