one handing a top handle saw

stirmantrees

Alright, there is alot opinion concerning using one hand on a top handle saw. I have thought about how this poll would go for some time now and think it is a necessary discussion.I am personally guilty of doing this and have received a good spankin for using such technique. As an Arborist, I must request specific guidelines for the allowance of such technique if it is justifiable. Specifically I am looking for how you use one hand beyond the often stated "the exception not the rule" kind of speach. We should be able to begin some sort of guidelines for this with real world situations. Furthermore, I do respect the " I never use one hand" mindset, i just find it difficult to apply personally.

I also have because of tree world begun to think more actively about what I am doing and have actually reduced my application of this technique and thus become safer, so thank you. As we can discuss these things as intelligent people the end result should be an ever increasing level of competency and professionalism.

So, in light of this I present a poll to discover (1) who uses one hand (2) how often they do such (3) exactly when they implement such techniques (4) when and under what circumstances do you consider it permissable. (5) How to make this a safer industry for all of us.

Please offer actual situations that may also include ways in which you have gotten hurt or had close calls that made you stop one handing.

Garry Brockley

i do it at times but when i do i try to keep the branch or tree between me and the saw, i only do it when i really have to ie unable to reach that very tip of a branch when pruning or when i cant get a position no matter how hard i try to use two hands.

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Eric Frei

I have altered the poll to hide people's identities as many would be reluctant to say the truth.

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newguy18

I climb with a 460,i only use a 200 when trimming palms and yes i one hand the 200 in palms,its also nessecary to cut above your head,when in real trees a 460,it only gets one handed on very rare occassions.

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Garry Brockley

be honest people its how we evolve.

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stirmantrees

i have been working real hard at this the past couple of weeks and will soon be able to vote quite often. the other improvement that comes with making yourself use two hands more often is that 2 tie in points will become much more frequent. that is another thread i shall begin shortly. I am going to get some pics of myself to further the discussion, as palms for example on a ladder without spikes it is near impossible to cut the other side without moving the ladder. perhaps moving the ladder is the best option.

newguy18

Actually stirman,i find if you get right up on top the ladder and up into the head its pretty easy to reach around and remove fronds,i'm starting to use a handsaw more and more in palms.

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stirmantrees

I as wondering about that. But for any real edification we must be explicit and openly discuss the matter.
Fair enough though, i want everybody involved.

now that the poll is hidden i really always use two hands.

stirmantrees

i meant with 2 hands. sorry. yes with one hand i can get everything. i do agree that a handsaw is a good option to trim where you may be tempted to one hand.

Cole

haha i call them one handed bandits or one arm bandits. I have used my 200 one handed i would be talking BS if i said i hadnt. but yes im serious about two hands on the saw some are some arent i am, a guy who worked in canberra for a while got the nickname "kickback" got a nice "tatto" accross his chest i use my silky when ever i can get away with it, beleive it or not one of the arb teachers here has a massive scar on his arm makes me cringe 80% of the time i see someone do the old cut and hold

FlashD

Typically, I one hand a saw, namely the 200t, when I'm climbing and need to push a log over as I'm cutting or when I simply cannot reach were I need too without putting myself in a worse postition by two handing. I used to do it a lot out of the bucket and use my free hand to catch limbs and toss them off. I'm learning more and more now to utilize the snap cut so I can put up the saw and just break the piece off when such control is needed. I do not one hand if I feel it's an unsafe situation to do so.

stirmantrees

thats a big one for me. i was underbrushing 2 large Live oaks around here with a boom lift(jlg 60 plus 6) and it would take forever to lower everything, especially the small cuts. good idea with the snap cut as i am finding myself beginning to implement it more with trimming now. i also lowered 50 percent more than i normally would have just cut and thrown

Victor Lindsay

I'll one hand a saw when cleaning a palm. I have not yet found a need to one hand a saw when pruning trees.

newguy18

When i subbed out to the power company in live oak i was told by them to hold the limb out past where you cut so it could be swung back further and so you had ahold of it incase it broke free.Also that was primarley with a handsaw,just for clarity.

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stirmantrees

how about removals. especially real dead ones. i find that sometimes i can reach further to cut smaller or rather lighter pieces. or i can cut the dead branch so as to miss something below when its so decrepit the target below does not warrant roping(i.e. a bush the customer says hes not concerned with but you know it still a decent bush). i cant snap something i am reaching all the way out for.
one handed palm cleaning is something i do a little to much of. Those boots can really exasperate an already dangerous job by causing your saw to fly around.
i guess i am wandering if we can justify its usage somehow and not with ill intent but as an accepted exception. I guess we would need to be able to quantify the use of one technique to make a more dangerous situation safer.
i personally do it to much. with that said i have much experience on the matter and need to reduce all possible usages down to a more realistic number.

newguy18

Alot of people get pissed at me for saying that if it comes down to your safety throw the standards out the window and use your head.Common sense is a much better tool than the ansi standards,imo.

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Cole

then again newguy i know climbers who are in there 30's and have been cutting one handed for like years and never hit themselfs. One expained to me now he is so used to one handed, changing would require changing his style as well, when i saw one handed of course thats only like 70% of the time u need two hands to start cut notches etc i spose it comes down to the old how you were taught thing as well....they go through all this stuff when you do your arb diploma in AUS ive done some training with north american training solutions is there anyone else over in US that does arb training ??

newguy18

The company i work for wanted me to go get trained and change some of my bad habits but i told my boss its not gonna happen,i'm fine just the way i am.I get the work done,noone gets hurt and it shouldn't matter that i freeclimb or one hand or any other bs reason for giving me a hard time.

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Eric Frei

Where's Therrin!

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newguy18

This place was kinda quiet without me wasn't it?Still saving up for a laptop but i have internet access at the library in kissimmee so it'll do,i'm in live oak right now.

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Therrin

Kinda quiet, yeah... now that you showed up im being ripped to pieces in other threads.

Of course I one-hand the 200T! Who doesnt? I typically, as others have said, only do so when I need the reach, or when doing palms. I take notice of not making a practice of it when I know it isnt necessary.

Ya'll who use handsaws on palms.... ugh. That takes forever, though I suppose it depends on how much skirt you have to clear away.

Palms also bring up the "using a chainsaw at higher than chest level" argument..... but palms arent *REALLY* trees They're a different vile thing all together. Special measures for special tasks.


(I am happy to have NG back... but that doesnt mean I'm gonna support the crap he likes to talk about that throws saftey and PPE to the curb)

newguy18

Silky handsaws make palms nicer they cut quicker it takes like 2 swipes and your on to the next frond.

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newguy18

Oh Ken i wear my ppe,chaps on the ground,brain bucket,eye and ear protection,i just throw the ansi standards like 2 tie ins out,theres no real need for it imo.

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dannyboysfc

One hand on a daily basis, there is no way around it for the jobs we do and the production that is expected. I dont do it when it isnt necessary, and when I do it I use extra caution.

Apocalypsse

+1, Silky saws cut through stuff with only a couple of swipes, even normal trees.

I been one handing less and less since starting TAFE but their 'never ever use it one handed' theory goes out the window in the real world. There are some situations where trying 2 hands just feels too dangerous where instead using it 1 handed you can keep yourself safe.

Treeson

I would definately say that I am guilty of using the top handle one-handed. You know it's wrong and know your smarter then to be doing it but you still do.
My old employer was a shocker in doing all his work with the MS200T for everything from felling, height reduction off ladders, and preping branches to go through the chipper.

The BIG saw would only get put in the truck for trees over 15" diameter.

I have had a MS200T kick back on me when thinning out weed siccamores in Dunedin, I was getting complacent and as I cut one stem I failed to see another stem directly behind it which collected with the top of the bar and sent the saw flying into my knee. Thank goodness for chainsaw pants -I have never operated a saw without them and never plan to.

Stay safe people

stirmantrees

the problem with handsaws on palms is cutting the real dead frond imo. they dont slice nicely without all the moisture in it. i suspect the shriveling of the frond (desication i think) brings the material into a more dense frond of course making it harder to cut.
the greens ones do slice nicely.

+1
vile is to far gentle of a word. i slayed 3 washys today. the world is a better place today

Therrin

What good is a helmet and eye/ear protection if you cut through your only TIP?

I'll meet your +1 and raise you another.

What you said about the really dead fronds and handsaws is completely true. You get to cut through the stems that've been on there for 5 to 15 years or so and once you get to the middle, it just wants to stick and stop dead. You end up doing the jerky tugging single stroke pull thingie (I mean that in the most serious way), and then when you get to the very end, the frond busts and hangs down but leaves the last stringy thread that's almost impossible to cut without holding the dead frond pulled out in one hand while trying to cut the last thread quickly. It's a complete PITA.

I always try to time it so I get close to a certain point of cutting through, then a very strong last downstroke to try to sever it off in the last cut, doesnt always work though.

(hopefully im not completely devoid of morsels of wisdom, as some are convinced)

newguy18

It'll never happen,i take an extra second to check my lanyard when blocking down,i keep it well clear,and until i cut the top out,i'm tied in with my climb line,i guess itm would be possible to have a 200 kick back and cut your line,but i run a big saw so its very seldom its one handed.

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Therrin

And you wonder why I rarely answer your calls.

I looked up the business you work for online and they appear to be immaculate professionals. I cant see how they'd allow you to work the way you do and still cover you on their insurance. It shows a complete lack of care for anyone who'd end up footing the bills or having to handle the aftermath of an accident that's just waiting to happen.

The line of thinking "it'll never happen to me cuz I'm just too damn good at what I do" is what kills people, wrecks families and property, wastes money, and reeks of selfishness.

I give up.