New Farm Jacarandas

treekiwi · 29th January 2008, 11:56 PM

Hi guys, just thought id give you a little insite into our tree rules in relation to construction.... In the last few years one council in particular has been stepping up its game in relation to works on their own trees... now they have a company that is on site when any footpath works, chipseal or footpath works within the dripline is undertaken which is a huge win for arborists, they have 3 full time parks arborists that oversea the works and the consultant subbys do the monitoring, is a good boost even tho it can be overkill at times, this means that construction is approved before it happens with an arborist. And then the work is monitored... alot of work has been done with airspading around significant trees which is a good step forward... all in little nz lol

Sean Freeman · 30th January 2008, 12:00 AM

WTF yes real mystery as to why they fell OMFG how daft do the powers that be think everyone is!!!!
This is so annoying I'm going to have have a beer to calm down

Ekka · 30th January 2008, 01:59 AM

More news.

I suspected this but couldn't really say.

Quote:

"trees were x-rayed and tested and no evidence of root rot or disease was found."

Source is the newspaper clipping below.

Also, here's the link for 3.38mins of video from News and is 18mb WMV ... bugger, I wasn't on! But plenty of one handing was.

www.treeworld.info/video/jacarandasnewfarm.wmv

Sean Freeman · 30th January 2008, 05:12 AM

Proper root crown inspection would have found their mystery cause...no ffing roots (of the live variety) costs a lot less than Xray....

Ekka · 30th January 2008, 06:58 PM

They did air spade them but what I noticed was a lack of flare, also the way the roots were so vertical and the soil beneath so stony/rubble/clay it looked very much like fill and there'd been some grade change.

That tree that went over had some large pruning since from the event last year, they pruned off a lot of wt over the road ... so it fell the other way.

Ekka · 13th February 2008, 09:20 PM

Yes been out there today, plenty of pics coming.

I even spoke to a guy who was there when it came down. He had a pic in his cell phone and no fence plus the green bin was tipped over.

The news report here is wrong with the time.

Tree fell Tuesday 12 February 2008 between 3pm and 4pm.

Also some important notes to read here, I bolded them, imagine that, get a consultant arborist who says "they're old" ... and that's it, they're dying of old age. Wow.

And more tests and greasing to take place. Even though to now it's been a lay down misere that there's nothing conclusive and lots of guess work.

Geriatric jacarandas keel over | The Courier-Mail

Quote:

Emma Chalmers

February 13, 2008 11:00pm

THE mystery of New Farm Park's falling jacaranda trees has been solved after consultation with an aborist? they're old.
An independent arborist's report prepared for Brisbane City Council has revealed the trees are the jacaranda equivalent of "geriatrics" and are coming to the end of their natural lives.

Fresh safety fears were raised yesterday when council officers discovered a large tree experts had previously declared "safe" had crashed to the ground on Tuesday night.

Despite the diagnosis, it will be at least another two weeks before council decides which of the seven suspect trees it will remove, with Deputy Mayor David Hinchliffe calling for a fresh round of testing in the aftermath of the latest fallen tree.

"The seven trees that were earmarked for investigation don't include this one here that's already come down," he said. "That causes me to doubt that the experts so far have got it right."

The arborist's report said the trees were planted in 1914 and, being a relatively new species to Australia from their native Brazil at the time, their life expectancy was unknown.

In the past 16 months, four jacarandas have fallen, including one that fell and crushed a car in July last year, and three have been removed.

"We want to preserve every jacaranda we possibly can, we love the jacarandas in New Farm Park, but at the same time for this park to be useful and usable, this park needs to be safe," Cr Hinchliffe said.

Inspections of some of the trees found that there was a little decay at the surface, but their roots had decayed more as they became deeper.

Testing will continue on the suspect patch of trees with an ultrasound-like exam in which a microdrill will bore into the tree to record the stages of its decay.

Council has planted about 100 new jacarandas in the past 20 years as part of a replacement program and Cr Hinchliffe says that project needs to be accelerated.

This is the pic that was with the paper article, thought I'd grab it for this post as they tend to disappear.

Ekka · 14th February 2008, 12:55 AM

Here comes the pics. So what do you say, soil failure or root failure? Oh, I'm not a fan of the decay claim either, all looked OK just like the others but certainly those roots were deep, I'd say that hole was 3' deep and see the soil, sort of stoney crumbly and considering the rain quite dryish.

Sean Freeman · 14th February 2008, 02:14 AM

First things first...thankyou Eric for taking the trouble of going down there and taking the pics, I wish I had been there, you have so I give due deffernce to your hands on knowledge.......I wold also ask those new to this thread to please read back through the previous posts to see what each of us has been saying in relation to these trees esp the pics Eric put up taken well before any trees dropped and the MS Paint works i placed over the top....fungal decay has been at these trees.

In the recent pics let me point out some things that cry out to me but I could be mistaken (as ever ofcourse i don't believe so!)

There are numerous roots on the failure side that have not torn in the way healthy roots do, there are no shreds and long strips, there are no residual roots remaining pulled through the sealed footpath surface...there should be if the roots are not compromised by fungal parasites.

I have circled the suspect roots in question below...also you'll be able to see a root that has torn in a manner more expected of live tissue

Heres the side view

Can't see what I'm getting at? Well look at this one with the view of the lifted bitumen...the roots under the road are still patially attached to the point that they are lifting both the kerbing and the bitumen (Blue area) but there are no such root along the footpath (Red lines) and there is in fact from the pic no lifting of the footpath area at all, not even any cracking (that I can see) and that is what you'd expect (Yellow area)

So what do i think from hot and humid (could it get any more humid without raining????

) NQ?

What I have said from the beginnin...... these trees were (are??) iconic to this area yet they have not been properly managed, they were not protected years ago (which was par for the course back then) when the roads aroundd the park were upgraded, they were not proteected when the footpaths were put in nor when the lights were put in, they have not been looked after..mulched root zones????since those changes, they have been neglected, and worse they have been damaged over the years, "pruning" impact injuries root injuries(kerb replacements, footpath leveling)

I do understand the extrodinary array of demands placed on a body like BCC, I really do but it is not beyond the scope of any of us no matter what institution we work in to ensure that valuable assets like these trees are properly maintained....it does not cost massive amounts of money to inspect assess and report on the health of trees, it does not cost enormous amounts of money to improve the health of trees like these....it does require a strong commitment from not just council but also from people like us to work towards achieving the desired outcomes.

I can assure all reading this that the final costs for all the removals and remedial works to roads footpaths etc will be many times the most exorbitant fee that could have been asked for assessments, reporting and PHC. I know where I would have preferred the money spent.

Ekka · 14th February 2008, 02:49 AM

Isn't it bizaar how much rubble stuff there is and how deep and vertical the roots are?

When they air spaded these there was not real or decent buttresses.

And the deeper roots seemed healthier from you observations than the surface ones. Could be white rot or dry rot etc, maybe deeper they weren't as drought affected.

Now take a look at this close up of that root ball, look at the rocks and rubble mate.

Now remember that's about 3' between the red lines.

I was thinking today. Now comes the cycle of death.

You see, the pruning is taking huge amounts off, in turn roots will suffer. The epicormics have already started which introduce more pruning and hazard management.

Now in the last 2 months I have been there some of the pruned trees already have significant dead wood. So the root dying is confirmed along with epicormics. And that's in the wettest 2 months we've had.

Check this out. And this is how the others slowly went then they toppled, I know these trees well.

dguntertrees · 17th February 2008, 06:48 PM

Great pic Sean, the resemblance to the present is not considerable....

Ekka, I can confirm the presence of fruiting bodies at the base of a number of those trees back in 2006. I was there in January of that year. I thought Ganoderma.

The shared environment; similair age and condition; proximity to roadside and presence of at least one pathogenic fungi, IN ADDITION to the failure of a number of trees within a relatively short period of time really gives me concerns for the remainder of these trees.

Sean, I agree that under happier circumstances, PHC would be the way to go, however I believe that the opportunity has long since past.

The Resistograph is certainly a good tool for the job, although I'm not too sure that its a good idea if one was planning on retaining any trees that showed "acceptable" levels of decay (if any).

I guess it depends on how far BCC are willing to go budget-wise to retain these historically significant trees. If they were located out in the middle of the park, and away from the road, then they could be fenced off and allowed to senesce quietly to the ground (which in turn would be beneficial in a number of other ways). As things stand, I think that the risk of more failures may tip the balance of opinion.

Given the benefit of hindsight, initially the road, and later the kerbing were bad moves, but hindsight is 20-20.

BCC have spent much money on these trees, but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing if lessons are learned and research done that will help other trees in similair conditions from reaching this impasse. I believe (and hope)that this is the case. We may in a few years be quoting passages from the research done here in our future reports. Be a shame to waste all that cash hey?

Dave

Ekka · 4th May 2008, 07:23 PM

Just been to the park today.

1/ Ring road still closed

2/ Large area of park still fenced off

3/ Childrens playground toilets fenced off!

4/ Set of portaloos set up toward river side of park is a poor effort and walk with kids, shutting that toilet close to the playground is a real dumb move especially for people with toddlers and babies.

5/ Grass within fenced area not mowed and knee high turning to weed and seeded, for allergy sufferers like me means hayfever.

6/ Stumps still there and not removed

7/ Large decrease in people noticed with the special groups like Tai Chi and Yoga gone

Almost a year, every man and his dog having a look and this is where it's at today.

Sean Freeman · 4th May 2008, 07:26 PM

I just don't understand what they are doing...or rather why they are doing nothing at all??? (or so it would seem)

Ekka · 4th May 2008, 09:18 PM

Procrastinating comes to mind.

Bermy · 10th May 2008, 05:54 AM

What a fascinating thread!
Thanks for all your photographs and reasoned discussion, most informative!
I especially liked Sean's discussion of the root failure, rotten roots vs live roots and the evidence in the pictures.

For what its worth, and I could be way off base here, I did notice in Ekka's pictures of the last tree to go over that the soil near the top of the profile had a distinctive dark grey layer. To me that indicates some anerobic conditions, the soil turns dark grey when there is insufficient oxygen, usually due to compaction. The key is to smell it, rotten egg smell. Given all that has gone on around these trees its probably not a factor on its own, but in combination with all the other stuff...? Or is it just the properties of your local soil?

29th January 2008, 11:56 PM	#26 (permalink)
treekiwi Cruisin' Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 85	Re: New Farm Jacarandas Hi guys, just thought id give you a little insite into our tree rules in relation to construction.... In the last few years one council in particular has been stepping up its game in relation to works on their own trees... now they have a company that is on site when any footpath works, chipseal or footpath works within the dripline is undertaken which is a huge win for arborists, they have 3 full time parks arborists that oversea the works and the consultant subbys do the monitoring, is a good boost even tho it can be overkill at times, this means that construction is approved before it happens with an arborist. And then the work is monitored... alot of work has been done with airspading around significant trees which is a good step forward... all in little nz lol

30th January 2008, 12:00 AM	#27 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Re: New Farm Jacarandas WTF yes real mystery as to why they fell OMFG how daft do the powers that be think everyone is!!!! This is so annoying I'm going to have have a beer to calm down __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

30th January 2008, 05:12 AM	#29 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Re: New Farm Jacarandas Proper root crown inspection would have found their mystery cause...no ffing roots (of the live variety) costs a lot less than Xray.... __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

30th January 2008, 06:58 PM	#30 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,663	Re: New Farm Jacarandas They did air spade them but what I noticed was a lack of flare, also the way the roots were so vertical and the soil beneath so stony/rubble/clay it looked very much like fill and there'd been some grade change. That tree that went over had some large pruning since from the event last year, they pruned off a lot of wt over the road ... so it fell the other way. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

17th February 2008, 06:48 PM	#35 (permalink)
dguntertrees Cruisin' Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Mudgeeraba, SE Queensland Posts: 94	Re: New Farm Jacarandas Great pic Sean, the resemblance to the present is not considerable.... Ekka, I can confirm the presence of fruiting bodies at the base of a number of those trees back in 2006. I was there in January of that year. I thought Ganoderma. The shared environment; similair age and condition; proximity to roadside and presence of at least one pathogenic fungi, IN ADDITION to the failure of a number of trees within a relatively short period of time really gives me concerns for the remainder of these trees. Sean, I agree that under happier circumstances, PHC would be the way to go, however I believe that the opportunity has long since past. The Resistograph is certainly a good tool for the job, although I'm not too sure that its a good idea if one was planning on retaining any trees that showed "acceptable" levels of decay (if any). I guess it depends on how far BCC are willing to go budget-wise to retain these historically significant trees. If they were located out in the middle of the park, and away from the road, then they could be fenced off and allowed to senesce quietly to the ground (which in turn would be beneficial in a number of other ways). As things stand, I think that the risk of more failures may tip the balance of opinion. Given the benefit of hindsight, initially the road, and later the kerbing were bad moves, but hindsight is 20-20. BCC have spent much money on these trees, but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing if lessons are learned and research done that will help other trees in similair conditions from reaching this impasse. I believe (and hope)that this is the case. We may in a few years be quoting passages from the research done here in our future reports. Be a shame to waste all that cash hey? Dave

4th May 2008, 07:23 PM	#36 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,663	Re: New Farm Jacarandas Just been to the park today. 1/ Ring road still closed 2/ Large area of park still fenced off 3/ Childrens playground toilets fenced off! 4/ Set of portaloos set up toward river side of park is a poor effort and walk with kids, shutting that toilet close to the playground is a real dumb move especially for people with toddlers and babies. 5/ Grass within fenced area not mowed and knee high turning to weed and seeded, for allergy sufferers like me means hayfever. 6/ Stumps still there and not removed 7/ Large decrease in people noticed with the special groups like Tai Chi and Yoga gone Almost a year, every man and his dog having a look and this is where it's at today. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

4th May 2008, 07:26 PM	#37 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,521	Re: New Farm Jacarandas I just don't understand what they are doing...or rather why they are doing nothing at all??? (or so it would seem) __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

4th May 2008, 09:18 PM	#38 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 5,663	Re: New Farm Jacarandas Procrastinating comes to mind. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

10th May 2008, 05:54 AM	#39 (permalink)
Bermy Cruisin' Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bermuda Posts: 65	Re: New Farm Jacarandas What a fascinating thread! Thanks for all your photographs and reasoned discussion, most informative! I especially liked Sean's discussion of the root failure, rotten roots vs live roots and the evidence in the pictures. For what its worth, and I could be way off base here, I did notice in Ekka's pictures of the last tree to go over that the soil near the top of the profile had a distinctive dark grey layer. To me that indicates some anerobic conditions, the soil turns dark grey when there is insufficient oxygen, usually due to compaction. The key is to smell it, rotten egg smell. Given all that has gone on around these trees its probably not a factor on its own, but in combination with all the other stuff...? Or is it just the properties of your local soil? __________________ Keep smiling, people will wonder what you are up to! (especially if you're gunning a chainsaw!)