Just Do It - Maybe

Streyken · 17th June 2007, 09:21 AM

When I started doing my own thing fulltime a few years ago, I started with the intention of staying small and keeping my overhead low. I like my free time and didn?t want any work commitments that would stop me from taking time off when I wanted; I like to spend 2-3 months in Mexico every year and I like the freedom to take days off when I want. I still hold to this philosophy.

I came from a mid-sized operation and for about 15 years I ran a crew of 4-6. I thought getting a chipper would mean having to keep it busy, and that with 1-2 guys it wouldn?t make that big a difference for a pick-up operation. Don?t ask me how I came to that erroneous conclusion, most likely fear. What finally made me get a chipper was that I was turning down way too many jobs in the 900+ range.

When I worked out the logistics on paper, I only needed to keep a machine busy three days a month to make it a better option than renting one. Three days of rental rates would cover the loan, insurance, operating and maintenance costs, so I bit the proverbial bullet. Well, it?s been about a month and a half now and inside another month the chipper will be paid for in full. The reason I?m sharing this is for those who are undecided about moving forward for whatever reason. I don?t know your individual situation, experience, potential work load, etc., but I recommend giving your aspirations a careful second look. On the flip side I see guys with a few years or less experience starting a full-on operation only to lose everything within a short time for numerous reasons.

Ekka · 17th June 2007, 02:00 PM

You have two great advantages.

1. Lots of work

2. Getting decent dollars on your jobs.

It used to good once here to. But times have changed and you can rent chippers for nix, get bottom dollar on your jobs and compete against door knockers and hacks till the cows come home.

Brad Goyen · 18th June 2007, 03:50 AM

Too true EKKA, I live in sydney and work out of the sutherland shire. The local rag has at times up to 35 tree services (using that term loosely) advertising and this is only a small part of sydney. Then like you say there's groups of blokes that rock up and stand over old folk to do jobs for them, just door knocking. Also to be competitive on all jobs i think an 18" machine is necessary and it is hard to justify about 90k for that sort of set up as an initial outlay. It would help the industry in OZ if it were more diligently policed, the less shonks the more financially viable it becomes.

Aside from that i thaught about getting a set up some years back but i was just having fun doing this at the time, and I'm lazy, crap at paperwork,non-commital, easily distracted

...............sorta wish i had've tho

Ekka · 18th June 2007, 12:51 PM

Brad, this is how it went down for me.

When I first put my ad in the local paper here there were 8 ads. In the early days I would get around 15 calls a week, this was 1 local paper and Brisbane has about 10!

Now I'm in 3 and get 3 calls a week.

It is winter and many ads have been pulled, but there still remains 17 ads in the paper for the area I live in. In summer it goes to 28ish.

The intensity of the door knockers over the last 3 years means many people dont get to call, they're haggled at the door.

Regarding the 18" chipper. You not only require the chipper but a suitable truck to pull it then some-one to drive it. The skills shortage will see you get some legend drivers and chipper operators. Truck drivers who sit on their ass with a HR licence get $25/hour so why bust ya ass for a tree crew for less than that.

Then you have to get the work for it, so you'll have to increase you advertising yet the return on that is low but you also have to be cheap to get the job. This then becomes a spiral of death. You need to own that gear and have contracts with councils/schools etc. With the recent housing boom there's no shortage of refinanced big chippers getting towed around.

It's tough, the toughest I have ever seen, the pricing is low and up here we dont do much pruning where skills and knowledge may over ride a cheap quote. When the tree remains what you get is important unlike a take down.

I'm sad to here Sydney's the same, I thought the TPO's down that ways would have cut down on the hacks. With the drought up here there's also an army of lawn men cutting trees.

newguy18 · 10th July 2007, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Brad, this is how it went down for me.

When I first put my ad in the local paper here there were 8 ads. In the early days I would get around 15 calls a week, this was 1 local paper and Brisbane has about 10!

Now I'm in 3 and get 3 calls a week.

It is winter and many ads have been pulled, but there still remains 17 ads in the paper for the area I live in. In summer it goes to 28ish.

The intensity of the door knockers over the last 3 years means many people dont get to call, they're haggled at the door.

Regarding the 18" chipper. You not only require the chipper but a suitable truck to pull it then some-one to drive it. The skills shortage will see you get some legend drivers and chipper operators. Truck drivers who sit on their ass with a HR licence get $25/hour so why bust ya ass for a tree crew for less than that.

Then you have to get the work for it, so you'll have to increase you advertising yet the return on that is low but you also have to be cheap to get the job. This then becomes a spiral of death. You need to own that gear and have contracts with councils/schools etc. With the recent housing boom there's no shortage of refinanced big chippers getting towed around.

It's tough, the toughest I have ever seen, the pricing is low and up here we dont do much pruning where skills and knowledge may over ride a cheap quote. When the tree remains what you get is important unlike a take down.

I'm sad to here Sydney's the same, I thought the TPO's down that ways would have cut down on the hacks. With the drought up here there's also an army of lawn men cutting trees.

Just to save 25 bucks an hour i would get my own license.Here in america a class a cdl would do nicely and even if you can't make it in tree work they are hiring nation wide for drivers.win win.

Ekka · 10th July 2007, 11:25 PM

There's a chronic shortage of truck drivers here to.

The guy that chips for us got another job driving trucks.

He worked 4 days and a Sunday, cleared $1500.

newguy18 · 11th July 2007, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

There's a chronic shortage of truck drivers here to.

The guy that chips for us got another job driving trucks.

He worked 4 days and a Sunday, cleared $1500.

WOW the guy's that tow trailers for mr. Frier only make 9.50 to 12.00 an hour.no mileage.Thats how much my dad makes and he is a service tech.

Ekka · 12th July 2007, 12:39 AM

The mines are booming here, anything in the mining industry ... like driving trucks, boilermaker, electrician etc $120K and 4 months off per annum.

It appears what the problem is ... is that the 80's stigma of wearing overalls and sweating for a living, tradesman or labourer, you were inferior to some office nancy has taken a turn.

Now, as the older guys have retired and the younger ones play with PC's there's a shortage of workers, trades and skilled blokes.

But truck drivers, never out of a job.

newguy18 · 12th July 2007, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

The mines are booming here, anything in the mining industry ... like driving trucks, boilermaker, electrician etc $120K and 4 months off per annum.

It appears what the problem is ... is that the 80's stigma of wearing overalls and sweating for a living, tradesman or labourer, you were inferior to some office nancy has taken a turn.

Now, as the older guys have retired and the younger ones play with PC's there's a shortage of workers, trades and skilled blokes.

But truck drivers, never out of a job.

The average employment expectantcy at frier's is 3 weeks,didn't believe it at first but then kicked back and watched someone leave after 2 weeks work.

Ekka · 12th July 2007, 10:54 PM

What is this friers? Some fast food joint?

newguy18 · 13th July 2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

What is this friers? Some fast food joint?

Wayne Frier's moile home sales and service.I am on the repair crew.

pomme · 20th July 2007, 01:05 AM

bying your first chipper is a big desicion,wait till you get a bit too busy and start looking at setting up a second gang you ll s**t when you look at the figures. for me that was the hardest choice stay small or take a chance. going to a third crew was nt so daunting as only increasing outlay by 1/3.

17th June 2007, 09:21 AM	#1 (permalink)
Streyken Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 205	Just Do It - Maybe When I started doing my own thing fulltime a few years ago, I started with the intention of staying small and keeping my overhead low. I like my free time and didn?t want any work commitments that would stop me from taking time off when I wanted; I like to spend 2-3 months in Mexico every year and I like the freedom to take days off when I want. I still hold to this philosophy. I came from a mid-sized operation and for about 15 years I ran a crew of 4-6. I thought getting a chipper would mean having to keep it busy, and that with 1-2 guys it wouldn?t make that big a difference for a pick-up operation. Don?t ask me how I came to that erroneous conclusion, most likely fear. What finally made me get a chipper was that I was turning down way too many jobs in the 900+ range. When I worked out the logistics on paper, I only needed to keep a machine busy three days a month to make it a better option than renting one. Three days of rental rates would cover the loan, insurance, operating and maintenance costs, so I bit the proverbial bullet. Well, it?s been about a month and a half now and inside another month the chipper will be paid for in full. The reason I?m sharing this is for those who are undecided about moving forward for whatever reason. I don?t know your individual situation, experience, potential work load, etc., but I recommend giving your aspirations a careful second look. On the flip side I see guys with a few years or less experience starting a full-on operation only to lose everything within a short time for numerous reasons. __________________ Trimmin' bush and caring for flowers is good 'n' all... but sometimes ya gotta let the big wood fly and pound the garden.

17th June 2007, 02:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,815	You have two great advantages. 1. Lots of work 2. Getting decent dollars on your jobs. It used to good once here to. But times have changed and you can rent chippers for nix, get bottom dollar on your jobs and compete against door knockers and hacks till the cows come home. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

18th June 2007, 03:50 AM	#3 (permalink)
Brad Goyen Sappling Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 12	Too true EKKA, I live in sydney and work out of the sutherland shire. The local rag has at times up to 35 tree services (using that term loosely) advertising and this is only a small part of sydney. Then like you say there's groups of blokes that rock up and stand over old folk to do jobs for them, just door knocking. Also to be competitive on all jobs i think an 18" machine is necessary and it is hard to justify about 90k for that sort of set up as an initial outlay. It would help the industry in OZ if it were more diligently policed, the less shonks the more financially viable it becomes. Aside from that i thaught about getting a set up some years back but i was just having fun doing this at the time, and I'm lazy, crap at paperwork,non-commital, easily distracted...............sorta wish i had've tho

18th June 2007, 12:51 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,815	Brad, this is how it went down for me. When I first put my ad in the local paper here there were 8 ads. In the early days I would get around 15 calls a week, this was 1 local paper and Brisbane has about 10! Now I'm in 3 and get 3 calls a week. It is winter and many ads have been pulled, but there still remains 17 ads in the paper for the area I live in. In summer it goes to 28ish. The intensity of the door knockers over the last 3 years means many people dont get to call, they're haggled at the door. Regarding the 18" chipper. You not only require the chipper but a suitable truck to pull it then some-one to drive it. The skills shortage will see you get some legend drivers and chipper operators. Truck drivers who sit on their ass with a HR licence get $25/hour so why bust ya ass for a tree crew for less than that. Then you have to get the work for it, so you'll have to increase you advertising yet the return on that is low but you also have to be cheap to get the job. This then becomes a spiral of death. You need to own that gear and have contracts with councils/schools etc. With the recent housing boom there's no shortage of refinanced big chippers getting towed around. It's tough, the toughest I have ever seen, the pricing is low and up here we dont do much pruning where skills and knowledge may over ride a cheap quote. When the tree remains what you get is important unlike a take down. I'm sad to here Sydney's the same, I thought the TPO's down that ways would have cut down on the hacks. With the drought up here there's also an army of lawn men cutting trees. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

10th July 2007, 11:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,815	There's a chronic shortage of truck drivers here to. The guy that chips for us got another job driving trucks. He worked 4 days and a Sunday, cleared $1500. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

12th July 2007, 12:39 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,815	The mines are booming here, anything in the mining industry ... like driving trucks, boilermaker, electrician etc $120K and 4 months off per annum. It appears what the problem is ... is that the 80's stigma of wearing overalls and sweating for a living, tradesman or labourer, you were inferior to some office nancy has taken a turn. Now, as the older guys have retired and the younger ones play with PC's there's a shortage of workers, trades and skilled blokes. But truck drivers, never out of a job. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

12th July 2007, 10:54 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,815	What is this friers? Some fast food joint? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

20th July 2007, 01:05 AM	#12 (permalink)
pomme Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: england Posts: 218	bying your first chipper is a big desicion,wait till you get a bit too busy and start looking at setting up a second gang you ll s**t when you look at the figures. for me that was the hardest choice stay small or take a chance. going to a third crew was nt so daunting as only increasing outlay by 1/3.

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