Ignore it then claim insurance!

TREE-SURFER · 19th February 2007, 05:44 PM

Hi Eric, gotta ? for ya... Seen a monkey puzzle tree today that would need some slight attention. It's about 90foot tall and no limbs for the first 60-70. There's no access for a hoist. How could it be climbed. Any ideas mate. my throwing arm aint that good.

a_lopa · 3rd March 2007, 01:43 AM

I asked a freind that has a insurance firm about this subject and gave him the link to this thread here is his response...

Hi Jas,

I've had a look at the photos and see the point, thanks, insurance is the whipping boy for many losses. Its all too common, we get quite a few claims for fallen trees on property / buildings, it must cost the insurance industry quite a bit and in turn drive up premiums for all of us.

All reasonable insurance policies cover the damage arising from the tree falling, however, many of them set a limit for the disposal or clean up of debris, as such individuals risk the cost of contributing towards such disposal and clean up costs.

See page 25 of Allianz landlords insurance policy for example, it appears to only cover $500.00 towards the removal costs. Allianz is probably the biggest insurer in the world, they claim to have high quality policies and insure over 3 million Australians (or something like that), as such this is probably a good example of the point.

Not sure what can / should be done, it might be a general selling point for you, however, people that are not aware of such limitations may examine their policy wording if they felt they were at risk of such an occurrence and take out a policy with an insurer that does not limit the costs or one that has a higher limit.

Let me know if you want further comment.

Look forward to seeing you soon.

Regards

a_lopa · 3rd March 2007, 01:52 AM

Allianz insurance wording.

Sean Freeman · 3rd March 2007, 02:31 AM

Good work a_lopa, haven't see that Allianz info before.

Under impact damage pg 16 part e
They will pay for loss or damage caused by the impact of falling trees or parts of falling trees. Will not pay if the loss/damage is caused by the lopping/felling of trees at your address.
Now Allianz doubtless mean by that during the lopping if a branch/s fall onto the house etc... But clearly we can show that the long terms results of such poor and damaging practices lopping are no different for the tree than malicious damage resulting in damage, for which the insurer will never pay out on.

SF

TrevMcRev · 5th March 2007, 12:42 AM

i dont see why insurance companies should pay out a cent for trees that, deemed by an arborist, had obvious signs that failure was likely. If you drove your car around with bald tyres, no brakes, broken windscreen, speeding, drunk, unlicensed etc. do ya think they'd pay up when you crash ya car. Yet the equivilant happens with trees and they keep paying.

Ignorance should be no excuse

I vote for compulsory annual arborist inspections for all properties surrounded by trees if they wish to maintain their cover.

Ekka · 5th March 2007, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevMcRev

If you drove your car around with bald tyres, no brakes, broken windscreen, speeding, drunk, unlicensed etc. do ya think they'd pay up when you crash ya car. Yet the equivilant happens with trees and they keep paying.

Ignorance should be no excuse

I vote for compulsory annual arborist inspections for all properties surrounded by trees if they wish to maintain their cover.

Hear yee, hear yee...

My sentiments exactly.

Responsible tree ownership is what it's all about. The policy should have question like ....

.... Are there any trees greater than 5m in height within striking distance of your home, if so provide an arborists condition report.

Now if that big azzed tree is in your neighbours yard then he should already have a report for it, if not you need to arrange for one. Too often the neighbour doesn't give a shit and the victims have to claim on their own insurance.

Ekka · 7th June 2007, 02:13 AM

Yesterday in the pissing rain I got soaked (along with my gear) helping another crew clear up this failure.

Now we've had constant rain over the last few days (approx 70mm) but pretty sedate, no winds or storms.

Anyway, the report was that a large tree fell and took out the power to a home blocking the driveway. It was an acrea-age property and the power wires were internal, 130m long strung between poles.

By the time I got there a sparky had already pulled the fuses and a neib had the clients fridge/freezer running on a geni.

Anyway, here's the pics in order of a my story.

This is the section that fell
P6060010-1.JPG

Here you can see the wires that were brought down
P6060015-1.JPG

This is a close up of the fallen section
P6060002-1.JPG

This is looking at the remaining tree
P6060006-1.JPG

This is a close up of the remaining tree where it fell from
P6060014-1.JPG

This is looking at the back of the tree where the section fell from
P6060008-1.JPG

Bit lower down the trunk on the back side
P6060009-1.JPG

And looking at the remaining part of the tree's canopy
P6060012-1.JPG

Now, here's how it goes.

The cost to restring the power supply to the house is approx $4500+

It's also not much different to go underground for the 130m so the insurance company is going to do that.

The rest of the costs, well, you can imagine, us and the electricians etc. We did fell the remaining section and insurance agreed to it as it was hazardous, but the customer had to pay for the part that was from ground to the tear out!

Anyway, the failure had significant VTA signs, even a blind man could see the tree half dead. But am I being cynical by saying what a bonus as now the client had his tree work done and underground power for the measly $200 excess ... what a bargain and what a message to tree owners ...

... ignore it then claim it on insurance.

Sean Freeman · 7th June 2007, 03:55 AM

Maybe the best approach would be to have insurance companies have their client's tree assessed by a qualified Arborist before the insurance company agrees to the coverage in the contract, rather than in effect signing a cheque for tree work to trees already (at the time of signing) visibly compromised?

Ekka · 7th June 2007, 05:36 AM

Here's my next port of call, I have to ring though .... hmmm, maybe I qualify as media?

http://ica.elcom.com.au//Home/default.aspx

Tree Machine · 9th June 2007, 05:42 AM

Thank you for starting this thread.

I have a current problem. This is yesterday's job, a hackberry whose lowest limb split out. The limb went over top of the phone, power and cable lines and tagged the house next door. I got the limb secured by rope up near the point of the snapoff, got the tree off the house, no problem, but could only cut away the branches to the point where the linbs that were impaled into the ground are now supporting the limb from coming down further.

Tree Machine · 9th June 2007, 05:50 AM

There is so much weight on the lines that it has bent the two power poles inward toward each other. Power and Light came out, dropped service, re-routed the power back over top, so that is now clear. Phone and cable are still being stretched to their limits and the poles are still bent toward each other. The pole at the center of this image is not part of the problem, it is only a street light pole and was barely missed by the fallen limb.

Tree Machine · 9th June 2007, 06:06 AM

Here's a far-back shot.

Yes, insurance will cover the limb as it did property damage. However, I went up the broken last night just after dark to closely inspect the point of failure. See all that brown stuff in the snapoff? I sunk a Silky blade deep into it, a full 300 mm.

The snapoff has exposed a deeper problem of extensive decay. The tree is rather huge, each limb being itself the size of a medium tree. This pic gives some perspective with the garage below as reference.

I meet with the tree owner here in a little while to write up the paperwork for his meeting with the insurance agent three days from now. I can not recommend leaving the tree standing as there is nowhere it could possibly fall where it wouldn't wallop a house, as well as taking out the high-voltage lines to the backside of the tree.

This one really has me miffed, not any easy answers. No place to park a crane. No real good place to set the limbs even if we could. Distance from the street to the tree, over top of the house, way too long a reach. Conventional dismantle, given all the lines and structure beneath, as well as other trees, gardens and fences, just a real bugger.

My meeting is here in a few minutes, I'm not really certain how I'm gonna write this one up.

Ekka · 9th June 2007, 09:49 PM

How does and ant eat an elephant?

One bite at a time, priced accordingly.

Ekka · 13th June 2007, 03:29 AM

Here's a copy of RACQ's policy doc.

Page 32 this link
http://www.racq.com.au/images/Insura...pds.pdf#events

newguy18 · 6th July 2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

City law demands safety of vegetation, the law is written so action can be taken against people who have hazardous trees.

In this case the tree poses a serious threat to pedestrians and the neighbour. A reasonable person would have attended to the tree, but to leave hazards that affect others lives and put them at risk is unreasonable.

There is no law against putting flyers in peoples boxes or talking with them, this isn't Russia 30 years ago.

The home-owner is way out of line, and regardless of local law there is State law of private nuisance and neglegence anyway.

However if your dead tree is in the middle of your 10 acre paddock and not effecting anyone that is entirely different.

Over at as I posted of a large nasty oak that started out as a trim up job for a good friend of mine.[volunteer job].Any way he asked about the hole in the side so I looked at a nice sized cavity with the included wet spongy stuff.I went up to trim it and found oak wilt and more spanish moss than you can shake a stick at.I t turned in to a removal when i headed back a huge limb about half ways back and the inner 6 inchs was soft and punky.A couple of guys over at as argued that i scared him into the removal when he asked me if i could piece it down for fire wood.2 months later tree still stands and all he can say is i'm too busy to have you come do it.I'M DOING IT FOR FREE.I would think he would jump and get it down so it can't take out the power lines and his fence.

I robably should have just flat out told him the tree is a major threat to lines.Line clearance won't touch it because I trimmed it back out of power more than ten feet.I guess i will play the waiting game.

19th February 2007, 05:44 PM	#26 (permalink)
TREE-SURFER Mature tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Isle of Man,UK. Posts: 410	Hi Eric, gotta ? for ya... Seen a monkey puzzle tree today that would need some slight attention. It's about 90foot tall and no limbs for the first 60-70. There's no access for a hoist. How could it be climbed. Any ideas mate. my throwing arm aint that good. __________________ The Aerial Arborist Isle of Man Tree Surgeon\| All Aspects of Tree Work Andy@Aerial-Arborist.co.uk What experts say about TOPPING

3rd March 2007, 01:43 AM	#27 (permalink)
a_lopa Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Drouin Posts: 877	I asked a freind that has a insurance firm about this subject and gave him the link to this thread here is his response... Hi Jas, I've had a look at the photos and see the point, thanks, insurance is the whipping boy for many losses. Its all too common, we get quite a few claims for fallen trees on property / buildings, it must cost the insurance industry quite a bit and in turn drive up premiums for all of us. All reasonable insurance policies cover the damage arising from the tree falling, however, many of them set a limit for the disposal or clean up of debris, as such individuals risk the cost of contributing towards such disposal and clean up costs. See page 25 of Allianz landlords insurance policy for example, it appears to only cover $500.00 towards the removal costs. Allianz is probably the biggest insurer in the world, they claim to have high quality policies and insure over 3 million Australians (or something like that), as such this is probably a good example of the point. Not sure what can / should be done, it might be a general selling point for you, however, people that are not aware of such limitations may examine their policy wording if they felt they were at risk of such an occurrence and take out a policy with an insurer that does not limit the costs or one that has a higher limit. Let me know if you want further comment. Look forward to seeing you soon. Regards __________________ Free Tree Industry Link Directory Drouin tree lopping, land clearing and stump removals

5th March 2007, 12:42 AM	#30 (permalink)
TrevMcRev Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 734	i dont see why insurance companies should pay out a cent for trees that, deemed by an arborist, had obvious signs that failure was likely. If you drove your car around with bald tyres, no brakes, broken windscreen, speeding, drunk, unlicensed etc. do ya think they'd pay up when you crash ya car. Yet the equivilant happens with trees and they keep paying. Ignorance should be no excuse I vote for compulsory annual arborist inspections for all properties surrounded by trees if they wish to maintain their cover. __________________ Melbourne Arborist, Total Tree Care, Pruning, Tree and Stump Removal

7th June 2007, 02:13 AM	#32 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Yesterday in the pissing rain I got soaked (along with my gear) helping another crew clear up this failure. Now we've had constant rain over the last few days (approx 70mm) but pretty sedate, no winds or storms. Anyway, the report was that a large tree fell and took out the power to a home blocking the driveway. It was an acrea-age property and the power wires were internal, 130m long strung between poles. By the time I got there a sparky had already pulled the fuses and a neib had the clients fridge/freezer running on a geni. Anyway, here's the pics in order of a my story. This is the section that fell P6060010-1.JPG Here you can see the wires that were brought down P6060015-1.JPG This is a close up of the fallen section P6060002-1.JPG This is looking at the remaining tree P6060006-1.JPG This is a close up of the remaining tree where it fell from P6060014-1.JPG This is looking at the back of the tree where the section fell from P6060008-1.JPG Bit lower down the trunk on the back side P6060009-1.JPG And looking at the remaining part of the tree's canopy P6060012-1.JPG Now, here's how it goes. The cost to restring the power supply to the house is approx $4500+ It's also not much different to go underground for the 130m so the insurance company is going to do that. The rest of the costs, well, you can imagine, us and the electricians etc. We did fell the remaining section and insurance agreed to it as it was hazardous, but the customer had to pay for the part that was from ground to the tear out! Anyway, the failure had significant VTA signs, even a blind man could see the tree half dead. But am I being cynical by saying what a bonus as now the client had his tree work done and underground power for the measly $200 excess ... what a bargain and what a message to tree owners ... ... ignore it then claim it on insurance. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

7th June 2007, 03:55 AM	#33 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Maybe the best approach would be to have insurance companies have their client's tree assessed by a qualified Arborist before the insurance company agrees to the coverage in the contract, rather than in effect signing a cheque for tree work to trees already (at the time of signing) visibly compromised? __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran

3rd March 2007, 02:31 AM	#29 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Good work a_lopa, haven't see that Allianz info before. Under impact damage pg 16 part e They will pay for loss or damage caused by the impact of falling trees or parts of falling trees. Will not pay if the loss/damage is caused by the lopping/felling of trees at your address. Now Allianz doubtless mean by that during the lopping if a branch/s fall onto the house etc... But clearly we can show that the long terms results of such poor and damaging practices lopping are no different for the tree than malicious damage resulting in damage, for which the insurer will never pay out on. SF

7th June 2007, 05:36 AM	#34 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Here's my next port of call, I have to ring though .... hmmm, maybe I qualify as media? http://ica.elcom.com.au//Home/default.aspx __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

9th June 2007, 09:49 PM	#38 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	How does and ant eat an elephant? One bite at a time, priced accordingly. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors