How do you spikeless climb big palms?

matshute · 3rd February 2008, 07:32 AM

I am a Uk arborist about to untertake to canopy access project in West Africa. In the Uk we don't get the opportunity to climb large palms so I was wandering how you would go about getting up one without the use of spikes?

I can't image its easy to get a thow line into one and if you did how could you see if you had a decent anchor?

Cherry pickers and ladders are out of the question as this is a remote rainforest location. Any ideas?

quercus · 3rd February 2008, 08:12 AM

I suggest you read the thread/poll about pruning with or without the use of spurs.
A lot of info can be found there. Although I haven't got much experience with palms, like some others here, it seems as though the technique that's being used strongly varies according to the type of palm.It also appears to be a dangerous tree because of large and heavy fronds whom can suddenly fall down along the trunk of the tree.

If you really want to climb spurless, you'll have to determine for yourself if you trust it or not.

I suggest you use the false crotch technique. Throw a throwline over the middle of the canopy,and pull a semi-static or static climbing line completely over the tree.Then attach a pulley on one side and in that pulley must be your 2/1 semi-static climbing line. Then pull the pulley up into the canopy and secure that static climbing rope to the base of the tree and securely lodge it between the branches up top, by pulling hard on it a few times, using your own bodyweight. Make sure it can't rise up when you are on the ascent. You could use the assistance of a ratchet strap for double safety. Now you have a 2/1 climbing system with a pulley installed. You also don't have to worry much about those fronds falling down now, because you are not attached to the trunk in any way, so they can't pull you down or get you lodged in between them.

But really, ask the Aussies and Kiwi's for a confirmation on this one.(You won't have to reallyask , because they'll automatically pick in on this one....) They are the experts on the matter and can probably give you a lot more advice then I can. Don't be surprised when they refer palms as being "shitsticks" though... There's one arb here who's really not very fond of palms... And last thing I heard, he's into the one-hand sawslingin' business...LOL

Pigdog · 3rd February 2008, 09:12 AM

Has anyone ever utilized these kind of things to climb with?
I use them to hunt from but don't know why they would not be good for some types of tree work.
I can install and climb with mine in total darkness.
The only limits would be the diameter of the tree trunk and limbs.

quercus · 3rd February 2008, 12:47 PM

And how exactly do you climb with that? Do you mean climbing whilst sitting in the chair or... ?

matshute · 3rd February 2008, 01:50 PM

I don't want to climb up in a chair but would like to access these trees safely. In a forset environment it may be difficult to get a line up there.

I am also interested to hear if anyone has any info on palm stability. What I am wandering is whether palm could be used for anchoring semi-permanant ziplines and canopy platforms. We have done this on large hardwoods but have not used palm before. Any feedback would be gratefully received.

treekiwi · 3rd February 2008, 02:09 PM

Hi guys,
do you have any idea what sort of palms you would be climbing? if it is thick barked then spikes may be the option and anchor into the fronts at the top, the method i use when cleaning palms is spiking and then anchoring into the fronds using a large cambium saver, fronds on their own are hard to anchour into but if you use 3 fronds by wraping a cambium saver over them and then using this can be a real time saver, a quick release also helps using a pulley on the small ring side and a retriever

cheap mans rope guide

Ekka · 3rd February 2008, 02:24 PM

There's many species of palms and it depends. Also in forest you could find extremely tall thin palms, I certainly wouldn't be loading them sideways.

Some plams dont have smooth trunks, some even have like 3" needles sticking out of them.

Some have small soft fronds you really wouldn't want to trust others have fronds 30' long you can grab no worries.

If you cant bigshot a line over the top then you dont have too many options left but to climb the trunk "somehow".

You can try to trunk walk with 2 flip lines and maybe a girth hitched rope to catch you if you slip. You'll likely find plenty of natives who'll scoot up there bare foot with a flip line. Apparently they make wine from the palms as well as palm oil..

Tapping Palm Wine - West Africa
Welcome to Jungle Products Inc. | Products: Source Tour

Pigdog · 3rd February 2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quercus

And how exactly do you climb with that? Do you mean climbing whilst sitting in the chair or... ?

It's extremely easy to climb in those. My wife even has one!
You sit down and pull the bottom up with your feet, then you stand up and lift the top section, then sit back down. It's called a sit down stand up style climbing stand. No kidding!
This is like the one my wife uses. You can fall asleep in it without worrying about falling out!
They grab good enough to climb a utility pole.

I don't think that particular one would be good for tree work but the other one has a solid platform that's rock solid to stand on. I could go pretty far up if I lobbed off limbs on the way up and the tree didn't taper too much.

Pigdog · 3rd February 2008, 04:08 PM

Here's a link to a video that shows the idea of how climbing tree stands work.
I don't own this particular model but mine climbs about the same way.
They might be just the ticket for what one would need for those tall limbless trees.
They don't damage the tree either. Those teeth just basically grip rather than sink into the tree.

http://video.treelounge.com/high/husky.wmv

Ekka · 3rd February 2008, 04:37 PM

What!

No beer coolers on that delux model.

Pigdog · 3rd February 2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

What!

No beer coolers on that delux model.

No, that would be an optional accessory I'm afraid!
Always trying to clip you for more money, huh?

Looks comfortable though doesn't it?

StrictlyPalms · 3rd February 2008, 05:45 PM

I actually tried one of the hunting stands on my neighbor's Palm tree (35 Ft). Seemed like a good idea at the time..... at least worth a try. One thing to remember is the tree stands are designed to go up once, and sit for hours on end. The whole reason behind the seat, right? The inchworm technique of getting it up the tree was ok, a little hard on the shoulders but not too bad. This might work for an "Access" project. Not sure what that is, sounds like going up and sitting for hours to me.

Problems I ran into for a commercial application:
1) Can't climb trees that have husks left on. Hope the client wants them cleaned as you go.
2) Some palms have very hard/slick surfaces, the teeth don't get a good bite and slide down the tree. (the treestands are designed to be used with a rough bark surface, which some palms do have, depends on the type)
3) They are actually much slower than ropes, since you have to inchworm down the same as you went up.
4) The teeth on the chair side did actually dig into the surface and left a puncture pattern, I figure if it leaves a mark it can't be good

Pigdog · 3rd February 2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrictlyPalms

I actually tried one of the hunting stands on my neighbor's Palm tree (35 Ft). Seemed like a good idea at the time..... at least worth a try. One thing to remember is the tree stands are designed to go up once, and sit for hours on end. The whole reason behind the seat, right? The inchworm technique of getting it up the tree was ok, a little hard on the shoulders but not too bad. This might work for an "Access" project. Not sure what that is, sounds like going up and sitting for hours to me.

Problems I ran into for a commercial application:
1) Can't climb trees that have husks left on. Hope the client wants them cleaned as you go.
2) Some palms have very hard/slick surfaces, the teeth don't get a good bite and slide down the tree. (the treestands are designed to be used with a rough bark surface, which some palms do have, depends on the type)
3) They are actually much slower than ropes, since you have to inchworm down the same as you went up.
4) The teeth on the chair side did actually dig into the surface and left a puncture pattern, I figure if it leaves a mark it can't be good

Can you remember what brand it was?
I never experienced mine slip even on hard slick barked trees. I even preferred them when hunting because they were very quiet to climb. I'm afraid of shaggy bark type trees. Mine didn't penetrate deep enough on those. I climb mostly pine trees though. I have to hunt the game, not the tree! So what ever works where I figure I need to be.
Just thought for those small trees hard to get a rope in, something like this may be better than shimmying up the tree anyway!
One of the most important things to remember with those is to be sure the bottom piece is tethered to the top piece. I'd hate to be sitting up a tree and then see the bottom piece go ratcheting on down to the bottom of the tree! That would ruin the whole hunt!

Therrin · 4th February 2008, 01:09 AM

Eh...apparently we have different definitions of "hunting"....

That seems more like shooting fish in a barrel, as long as you know how to line up the sights and pull the trigger then you're good!

Looks like a niffty setup though.

Putting a line up a palm? I'd use the Arbor Harpoon myself...

matshute · 4th February 2008, 07:53 AM

A big shot over the top is an option then climb the single line with 2 asscenders. I really would like to avoid spiking these trees as they are in a private reserve. It seems that the palm may be the tallest trees at this site and would be potential trees for zipline anchors and platforms. Don't know species yet though unfortunately.

Pigdog · 4th February 2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therrin

Eh...apparently we have different definitions of "hunting"....

That seems more like shooting fish in a barrel, as long as you know how to line up the sights and pull the trigger then you're good!

Looks like a niffty setup though.

Putting a line up a palm? I'd use the Arbor Harpoon myself...

You need to come hunt in Louisiana!
The cover where they like to stay is nasty thick. And deer aren't fools here! Except for maybe the first few days of the season. Then they wise up!
The first two years I hunted here I didn't even see one and tracks were everywhere!
They even allow hunting them with hounds in Louisiana and then it's still not easy. I don't hunt with dogs though.

This is just one of several the fellows who visits my feeder and I never saw him all season. Any of the bigger rack deer for that matter. They don't get that old by not being wise! Most only travel during the night.

3rd February 2008, 07:32 AM	#1 (permalink)
matshute Sappling Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 13	How do you spikeless climb big palms? I am a Uk arborist about to untertake to canopy access project in West Africa. In the Uk we don't get the opportunity to climb large palms so I was wandering how you would go about getting up one without the use of spikes? I can't image its easy to get a thow line into one and if you did how could you see if you had a decent anchor? Cherry pickers and ladders are out of the question as this is a remote rainforest location. Any ideas?

3rd February 2008, 08:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
quercus Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: belgium Posts: 426	Re: How do you spikeless climb big palms? I suggest you read the thread/poll about pruning with or without the use of spurs. A lot of info can be found there. Although I haven't got much experience with palms, like some others here, it seems as though the technique that's being used strongly varies according to the type of palm.It also appears to be a dangerous tree because of large and heavy fronds whom can suddenly fall down along the trunk of the tree. If you really want to climb spurless, you'll have to determine for yourself if you trust it or not. I suggest you use the false crotch technique. Throw a throwline over the middle of the canopy,and pull a semi-static or static climbing line completely over the tree.Then attach a pulley on one side and in that pulley must be your 2/1 semi-static climbing line. Then pull the pulley up into the canopy and secure that static climbing rope to the base of the tree and securely lodge it between the branches up top, by pulling hard on it a few times, using your own bodyweight. Make sure it can't rise up when you are on the ascent. You could use the assistance of a ratchet strap for double safety. Now you have a 2/1 climbing system with a pulley installed. You also don't have to worry much about those fronds falling down now, because you are not attached to the trunk in any way, so they can't pull you down or get you lodged in between them. But really, ask the Aussies and Kiwi's for a confirmation on this one.(You won't have to reallyask , because they'll automatically pick in on this one....) They are the experts on the matter and can probably give you a lot more advice then I can. Don't be surprised when they refer palms as being "shitsticks" though... There's one arb here who's really not very fond of palms... And last thing I heard, he's into the one-hand sawslingin' business...LOL

3rd February 2008, 09:12 AM	#3 (permalink)
Pigdog Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Posts: 65	Re: How do you spikeless climb big palms? Has anyone ever utilized these kind of things to climb with? I use them to hunt from but don't know why they would not be good for some types of tree work. I can install and climb with mine in total darkness. The only limits would be the diameter of the tree trunk and limbs.

3rd February 2008, 12:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
quercus Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: belgium Posts: 426	Re: How do you spikeless climb big palms? And how exactly do you climb with that? Do you mean climbing whilst sitting in the chair or... ?

3rd February 2008, 01:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
matshute Sappling Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 13	Re: How do you spikeless climb big palms? I don't want to climb up in a chair but would like to access these trees safely. In a forset environment it may be difficult to get a line up there. I am also interested to hear if anyone has any info on palm stability. What I am wandering is whether palm could be used for anchoring semi-permanant ziplines and canopy platforms. We have done this on large hardwoods but have not used palm before. Any feedback would be gratefully received.

3rd February 2008, 02:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
treekiwi Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 100	Re: How do you spikeless climb big palms? Hi guys, do you have any idea what sort of palms you would be climbing? if it is thick barked then spikes may be the option and anchor into the fronts at the top, the method i use when cleaning palms is spiking and then anchoring into the fronds using a large cambium saver, fronds on their own are hard to anchour into but if you use 3 fronds by wraping a cambium saver over them and then using this can be a real time saver, a quick release also helps using a pulley on the small ring side and a retriever cheap mans rope guide

3rd February 2008, 02:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	Re: How do you spikeless climb big palms? There's many species of palms and it depends. Also in forest you could find extremely tall thin palms, I certainly wouldn't be loading them sideways. Some plams dont have smooth trunks, some even have like 3" needles sticking out of them. Some have small soft fronds you really wouldn't want to trust others have fronds 30' long you can grab no worries. If you cant bigshot a line over the top then you dont have too many options left but to climb the trunk "somehow". You can try to trunk walk with 2 flip lines and maybe a girth hitched rope to catch you if you slip. You'll likely find plenty of natives who'll scoot up there bare foot with a flip line. Apparently they make wine from the palms as well as palm oil.. Tapping Palm Wine - West Africa Welcome to Jungle Products Inc. \| Products: Source Tour __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

3rd February 2008, 04:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
Pigdog Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Posts: 65	Re: How do you spikeless climb big palms? Here's a link to a video that shows the idea of how climbing tree stands work. I don't own this particular model but mine climbs about the same way. They might be just the ticket for what one would need for those tall limbless trees. They don't damage the tree either. Those teeth just basically grip rather than sink into the tree. http://video.treelounge.com/high/husky.wmv

3rd February 2008, 04:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,869	Re: How do you spikeless climb big palms? What! No beer coolers on that delux model. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

3rd February 2008, 05:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
StrictlyPalms Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Orlando, Florida USA Posts: 86	Re: How do you spikeless climb big palms? I actually tried one of the hunting stands on my neighbor's Palm tree (35 Ft). Seemed like a good idea at the time..... at least worth a try. One thing to remember is the tree stands are designed to go up once, and sit for hours on end. The whole reason behind the seat, right? The inchworm technique of getting it up the tree was ok, a little hard on the shoulders but not too bad. This might work for an "Access" project. Not sure what that is, sounds like going up and sitting for hours to me. Problems I ran into for a commercial application: 1) Can't climb trees that have husks left on. Hope the client wants them cleaned as you go. 2) Some palms have very hard/slick surfaces, the teeth don't get a good bite and slide down the tree. (the treestands are designed to be used with a rough bark surface, which some palms do have, depends on the type) 3) They are actually much slower than ropes, since you have to inchworm down the same as you went up. 4) The teeth on the chair side did actually dig into the surface and left a puncture pattern, I figure if it leaves a mark it can't be good __________________ Strictly Palms, Inc. Orlando, Florida USA

4th February 2008, 01:09 AM	#14 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,254	Re: How do you spikeless climb big palms? Eh...apparently we have different definitions of "hunting".... That seems more like shooting fish in a barrel, as long as you know how to line up the sights and pull the trigger then you're good! Looks like a niffty setup though. Putting a line up a palm? I'd use the Arbor Harpoon myself... __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

4th February 2008, 07:53 AM	#15 (permalink)
matshute Sappling Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 13	Re: How do you spikeless climb big palms? A big shot over the top is an option then climb the single line with 2 asscenders. I really would like to avoid spiking these trees as they are in a private reserve. It seems that the palm may be the tallest trees at this site and would be potential trees for zipline anchors and platforms. Don't know species yet though unfortunately.