How do you spikeless climb big palms?

matshute

I am a Uk arborist about to untertake to canopy access project in West Africa. In the Uk we don't get the opportunity to climb large palms so I was wandering how you would go about getting up one without the use of spikes?

I can't image its easy to get a thow line into one and if you did how could you see if you had a decent anchor?

Cherry pickers and ladders are out of the question as this is a remote rainforest location. Any ideas?

quercus

I suggest you read the thread/poll about pruning with or without the use of spurs.
A lot of info can be found there. Although I haven't got much experience with palms, like some others here, it seems as though the technique that's being used strongly varies according to the type of palm.It also appears to be a dangerous tree because of large and heavy fronds whom can suddenly fall down along the trunk of the tree.

If you really want to climb spurless, you'll have to determine for yourself if you trust it or not.

I suggest you use the false crotch technique. Throw a throwline over the middle of the canopy,and pull a semi-static or static climbing line completely over the tree.Then attach a pulley on one side and in that pulley must be your 2/1 semi-static climbing line. Then pull the pulley up into the canopy and secure that static climbing rope to the base of the tree and securely lodge it between the branches up top, by pulling hard on it a few times, using your own bodyweight. Make sure it can't rise up when you are on the ascent. You could use the assistance of a ratchet strap for double safety. Now you have a 2/1 climbing system with a pulley installed. You also don't have to worry much about those fronds falling down now, because you are not attached to the trunk in any way, so they can't pull you down or get you lodged in between them.

But really, ask the Aussies and Kiwi's for a confirmation on this one.(You won't have to reallyask , because they'll automatically pick in on this one....) They are the experts on the matter and can probably give you a lot more advice then I can. Don't be surprised when they refer palms as being "shitsticks" though... There's one arb here who's really not very fond of palms... And last thing I heard, he's into the one-hand sawslingin' business...LOL

Pigdog

Has anyone ever utilized these kind of things to climb with?
I use them to hunt from but don't know why they would not be good for some types of tree work.
I can install and climb with mine in total darkness.
The only limits would be the diameter of the tree trunk and limbs.

quercus

And how exactly do you climb with that? Do you mean climbing whilst sitting in the chair or... ?

matshute

I don't want to climb up in a chair but would like to access these trees safely. In a forset environment it may be difficult to get a line up there.

I am also interested to hear if anyone has any info on palm stability. What I am wandering is whether palm could be used for anchoring semi-permanant ziplines and canopy platforms. We have done this on large hardwoods but have not used palm before. Any feedback would be gratefully received.

treekiwi

Hi guys,
do you have any idea what sort of palms you would be climbing? if it is thick barked then spikes may be the option and anchor into the fronts at the top, the method i use when cleaning palms is spiking and then anchoring into the fronds using a large cambium saver, fronds on their own are hard to anchour into but if you use 3 fronds by wraping a cambium saver over them and then using this can be a real time saver, a quick release also helps using a pulley on the small ring side and a retriever cheap mans rope guide

Eric Frei

There's many species of palms and it depends. Also in forest you could find extremely tall thin palms, I certainly wouldn't be loading them sideways.

Some plams dont have smooth trunks, some even have like 3" needles sticking out of them.

Some have small soft fronds you really wouldn't want to trust others have fronds 30' long you can grab no worries.

If you cant bigshot a line over the top then you dont have too many options left but to climb the trunk "somehow".

You can try to trunk walk with 2 flip lines and maybe a girth hitched rope to catch you if you slip. You'll likely find plenty of natives who'll scoot up there bare foot with a flip line. Apparently they make wine from the palms as well as palm oil..

Tapping Palm Wine - West Africa
Welcome to Jungle Products Inc. | Products: Source Tour

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Pigdog

It's extremely easy to climb in those. My wife even has one!
You sit down and pull the bottom up with your feet, then you stand up and lift the top section, then sit back down. It's called a sit down stand up style climbing stand. No kidding!
This is like the one my wife uses. You can fall asleep in it without worrying about falling out!
They grab good enough to climb a utility pole.





I don't think that particular one would be good for tree work but the other one has a solid platform that's rock solid to stand on. I could go pretty far up if I lobbed off limbs on the way up and the tree didn't taper too much.

Pigdog

Here's a link to a video that shows the idea of how climbing tree stands work.
I don't own this particular model but mine climbs about the same way.
They might be just the ticket for what one would need for those tall limbless trees.
They don't damage the tree either. Those teeth just basically grip rather than sink into the tree.

http://video.treelounge.com/high/husky.wmv

Eric Frei

What!

No beer coolers on that delux model.

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Pigdog

No, that would be an optional accessory I'm afraid!
Always trying to clip you for more money, huh?

Looks comfortable though doesn't it?

StrictlyPalms

I actually tried one of the hunting stands on my neighbor's Palm tree (35 Ft). Seemed like a good idea at the time..... at least worth a try. One thing to remember is the tree stands are designed to go up once, and sit for hours on end. The whole reason behind the seat, right? The inchworm technique of getting it up the tree was ok, a little hard on the shoulders but not too bad. This might work for an "Access" project. Not sure what that is, sounds like going up and sitting for hours to me.

Problems I ran into for a commercial application:
1) Can't climb trees that have husks left on. Hope the client wants them cleaned as you go.
2) Some palms have very hard/slick surfaces, the teeth don't get a good bite and slide down the tree. (the treestands are designed to be used with a rough bark surface, which some palms do have, depends on the type)
3) They are actually much slower than ropes, since you have to inchworm down the same as you went up.
4) The teeth on the chair side did actually dig into the surface and left a puncture pattern, I figure if it leaves a mark it can't be good

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Strictly Palms, Inc.
Orlando, Florida USA

Pigdog

Can you remember what brand it was?
I never experienced mine slip even on hard slick barked trees. I even preferred them when hunting because they were very quiet to climb. I'm afraid of shaggy bark type trees. Mine didn't penetrate deep enough on those. I climb mostly pine trees though. I have to hunt the game, not the tree! So what ever works where I figure I need to be.
Just thought for those small trees hard to get a rope in, something like this may be better than shimmying up the tree anyway!
One of the most important things to remember with those is to be sure the bottom piece is tethered to the top piece. I'd hate to be sitting up a tree and then see the bottom piece go ratcheting on down to the bottom of the tree! That would ruin the whole hunt!

Therrin

Eh...apparently we have different definitions of "hunting"....

That seems more like shooting fish in a barrel, as long as you know how to line up the sights and pull the trigger then you're good!

Looks like a niffty setup though.


Putting a line up a palm? I'd use the Arbor Harpoon myself...

matshute

A big shot over the top is an option then climb the single line with 2 asscenders. I really would like to avoid spiking these trees as they are in a private reserve. It seems that the palm may be the tallest trees at this site and would be potential trees for zipline anchors and platforms. Don't know species yet though unfortunately.

Pigdog

You need to come hunt in Louisiana!
The cover where they like to stay is nasty thick. And deer aren't fools here! Except for maybe the first few days of the season. Then they wise up!
The first two years I hunted here I didn't even see one and tracks were everywhere!
They even allow hunting them with hounds in Louisiana and then it's still not easy. I don't hunt with dogs though.

This is just one of several the fellows who visits my feeder and I never saw him all season. Any of the bigger rack deer for that matter. They don't get that old by not being wise! Most only travel during the night.

dguntertrees

Hi Matshute,

I don't know where you are in the UK, but I know that in the south west, the linesmen use spikeless climbing techniques to get up the pole. I don't know what the piece of kit is called but you strap them on like a set of spikes, and there is a kind of loop that fits around the pole...you basically use these to walk up the pole. If you could make them adjustable...they would be ideal for what you want.

Dave

dguntertrees

They might be called "split "P" hooks"....then again...they might not. I can't find 'em on line.

Dave

Therrin

(BTW, this post is off-topic, is about hunting, not climbing palms)

Pigdog,

I've a great answer to your "nighttime roming deer" situation.

A couple year's ago I picked up a Gen 2 digital Night Vision Scope... built in Infrared Illuminator for spot coverage, built in digital chevron reticle and windage markings, amplitute adjustment.... it's really quite a charm, but then, it should be at about $1200.

Found out here when we were having a big coyote problem... the animal's eyes bounce back the infrared Illum beam and they show up like burning coals. Even if you have trouble seeing the animals body, you can get a guaranteed head shot every time. As long as your using a decent firearm, flat trajectory, high power....they just drop like stones. They aren't as skitterish and flighty at night alot of times, tend to spend more time standing still.
As far as needing to use brush-bucking rounds, that's a matter of ammunition and power of your firearm... If you've got the money to spend, "give it a shot" =)
Stick with Gen 2 or 3...Gen 1 uses completely different technology and really sucks at anything less than 50 yards or so; isn't reliable for hunting.

NV scopes help you even up the odds when stalking your quarry... you can meet them on terms where they are usually superior. Technology is great.

Done it

I've been trying to upload this video but it just won't work.

It's funny but it's how the islanders do it. You'll have to do it yourself, I've been here over an hour.

Google, Metacafe.com type in Tree climbing human.

matshute

The kit linesmen use I don't think would work as the palm diameters are likely to be much grater than utility poles. Also its expensive heavy kit to kart down to Africa if it may or may not work.

I've seen local guys shin up these trees in Africa and Central America and its impressive, but I couldn't get on with it. I just think it would be a bit embarassing to be paid as an arborist to undertake a project like this then have to get a local guy to get my rope up the tree for me.

Start another thread about shooting deer, cos I couldn't really give a shit.

dguntertrees

Start another thread about shooting deer, cos I couldn't really give a shit.[/QUOTE]

Sure enough.

Eric Frei

That video was good, bit unfair that the bloke went twice to the beasts once ... but was his own ego's doing.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/65384/tree_climbing_human_vs_chimpanzee/
However now look at it from an arborists perspective, to set a rope on that cabbage top and go up .... where's my spikes?

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Underwor

Here is a link to an image I took in Moscow in 2004. One of the tree companies that sponsored my trip used this method to ascend everything. They seemed to go at about the same speed I would have with spikes and they never kicked out in soft wood. I have been trying to get Grigory or Dmitriy to send me a video of them climbing to get the rhythm down so I can do it myself. Just a thought.

http://165.234.175.12/photos/Russia/...s/IM000155.JPG

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Bob Underwood, Associate Professor of Forestry
ND School of Forestry
Minot State University - Bottineau Campus
Bottineau, North Dakota

Treelore

Not to dissimilar in concept to aid climbing which is a hands free rock technique. It's the commercial speed that needs to be addressed. People have been getting their palms cleaned for thirty years for about $50. Until a technique with the speed of spikes comes about palms will be spurred by the lowest bidder. very very unfortunate!!

matshute

I like the photo. I tried something similar climbing large trees in Costa Rica when we couldn't get a line in due to under story vegetation. I must say I wasn't much good at it, probally due to the trunk diameter though.

I guess 2 strops, 1 for each foot and side strop could be worth a go.

Eric Frei

Hey Bob,

I got the link for Grigory's take down video, now watch this guys, the bloke doesn't use spikes and he blocks down no worries.

http://www.udal.ru/udalvideo35.wmv (9 min, 35 Mb) LINK NOW DEAD< SORRY>

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StrictlyPalms

How can that be Russia? There's no snow

Great vid though.

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Strictly Palms, Inc.
Orlando, Florida USA

B rad

As Quercus mentioned, use your throwline to set a high anchor point. The method he describes is ideal for species such as the Phoenix canariensis palms (tall & fat). You can use your preferred ascent technique to reach your anchor pulley and this will allow you to remove approximately 2/3 of the fronds on one side. Descend, shift your anchor pulley to the tail end of the anchor rope, reset and ascend to remove the remaining number of fronds. Using a portawrap as the ground anchor allows you to remove most of the slack in the anchor rope as well as providing a tie-off point.

Contract climbing in Darwin a few years back involved a lot work with Carpentaria acuminata palms (tall & skinny with trunks as hard as steel). I would use the same method as described above however, the ascent was always backed up with my (rope) polebelt double wrapped/ choked against the trunk, in case of overhead failure. Upon reaching the top, I would reset the anchor point with a double wrapped cambium saver that could be retrieved from the ground. I would use this high point to work on as many surrounding palms as possible.
On one particular job, I was assisted by another climber familiar only with with the spurs and polebelt technique. I watched him ascend to the top and whilst reaching for his saw, his weight momentarily shifted - spurs kicked out
and he was back on the ground in a matter of seconds. His natural instinct was to grab the trunk of the palm and in doing so, took (his) bark off inside both elbows and both knees on the way down.

You could familiarise yourself with this technique by trying the Adjustable False Crotch (Tree Climbers Companion pg. 50).

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matshute

Thanks Rad.

How suitable do you think large palms could be for anchoring ziplines to? Have thought about possible using 2 steel guys with ground anchors.

I cant find out much info on stability of palms. This would be with the intention of utilising a private forest reserve in Africa so it can generate tourist income rather than getting the chop.