How do you handle when you've underbid a job?

playfordtree

What about when you've underbid a job by $1,500-$2,000.??

When you've had to hire expensive equipment, e.g. a 28 metre boom lift.
and instead of taking 1 day it will take 2 days.

who wears the cost??

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treevet

I think it has to be for a reason outside of your control such as something like a big unseen section of concrete in the base to attempt to get yourself out of trouble. I put that sort of thing in my contract. If you do not, good luck.

Last time that happened they paid for my time, saw chain damage and dump fees of concreted sections associated with the removal. There was no request on my part, just a statement to the client and I got no argument.

If it is just incompetent bidding, the client may have seen it for what it was and decided to take a chance with the service they recognized as less than top quality and the risk-return for them was maybe possible property damage in exchange for a ridiculously low price. You cannot arbitrarily break a contract and take their reward away from them.

newguy18

Never ran into any cocncrete filled treees yet,then again most trees would probabley rot right off the concrete before i got to themI also tend to charge alot more if the client wishes everything comes down on a rope,that can be a pain in the ass.After last week underbidding removeing and hauling off a large limb,plus still can't find the right tire size for my trailer,gas prices going up,most of my bids alomost doubled,otherwise i'd be paying the clients to do thier work which is about pointless.Hopping to get a job where i have an easy tree to remove so i can send Shane up to get used to spikes[no he won't be performing the removal,he is way to inexperianced!!!]I made him a deal,whatever he puts toward his climbing setup,i'd match it so we can get him setup to climb.It's gonna be alot of time and practice,but at least he'll have the benifit of a controled learning enviroment unlike me who just got a set of climbing gear,read a dozen books and went for it,i quickley learned that i didn't know it all.Even if he doesn't stick with climbing proffesionally,he might continue to rec climb.

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old schooler

treevet

Go up and set a rope for him and have him on belay while practicing spiking on trees to be removed.

newguy18

already planned on that but thanks,just gonna get him used to spurring up and down and around the trunk while belayed and eventually weam him off the climbline.I might have some palms coming up might let him have a go at cleaning palms.[handsaw of course].i also thnk for his first few trees 3 points of attachment although over kill,should keep him aloft and safer.I 'll show him how to leave a limb or stub to tie into before topping so if something goes tits up,he can make it to the ground, or get outta harms way.if i can find my camera,there might be pics.

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old schooler

JohN Dee

Super Secure!

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Knotahippie

3 points is bomber...

newguy18

Better than how i started off,freeclimbing,one attachment and no training.No saw use aloft until i feel he has adequate ground experiance.

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old schooler

Knotahippie

I almost always work alone...if I don't, my groundsguy/spotter uses handsaws only.

dannyboysfc

IF you ever do need a second person for a weekend job send me a PM I live in Santa Cruz county, but work in SJ.

Knotahippie

You bet, I'll keep you in mind.

OutofMytree

Sob, me!

I have bad memories of a job I quoted at $4000 removing a monster tuart gum. Booked in a 29m cherry picker, had a great drop zone, even had enough room to reverse the truck and chipper combo down the driveway after the picker so it could be fed as I cut. What I didn't do was check wind speed and direction. Tree was in the north west corner of the block and the wind was east sou'east at 40kmh.

This tuart tipped the scales at about 12 tonnes including blocks. It is still, to date, the single largest tree I have ever removed and had a base trunk diameter of 1.7m. I was in that bucket from 7.30 am to 6.30pm. Because we had to slew to drop and because of the wind factor I could not allow my crew to chip. So we ended up with the mother of all branch piles, locked up 6 ways to Sunday. I know the weight is pretty close because I filled my 20 m3 bin twice and it weighs in full at just under 5 tonnes. Then we took 1 1/2 bins of blocks. The total job time was 4 days with myself and my groundie alone for 2 days then a 3rd pair of hands for the following 2 days.

The cherry picker cost $1900. So I made $2100 for four days of seriously hard slog AND THEN had to pay wages out of that. At that point I was charging out at $1500 per day. So, I took a big hit.

What does all this mean? Well I now have the best weather reporting website on my favourites list. I can tell you wind speed and rainfall 28 days in advance at any time of the year. I explain to my clients when booking work in that it is subject to weather. If they are on a time schedule I then explain that penalty rates will apply if the job MUST be done in inclement weather. I now ALWAYS book cherry pickers and crane OVERSIZED for the job as the position you set up in has a massive impact on how fast you can work out of a bucket.

So what this all means is that I learned a valuable lesson. It cost me thousands of dollars in lost income up front, but has since paid me back on that investment with significant interest.

The principle being explored in this thread is not about the amount of money you lose on a poorly quoted job. It is about the lesson learned. The cost of that lesson will have a marked impact on just how well you remember and apply it.

Eric Frei

Weather is a bugger.

If I'm felling trees, crack of dawn stuff coz the SE winds hoot in any time after 11am and up 25knots any day.

Good thread with some great responses.

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JohN Dee

We once had a job - Camphor Laurel take down that had previously been topped.

My dad went out on his own and quoted it for $650. So the day came of the removal when I went out there too. Upon my tree inspection, I saw that I didn't have a sufficient high point to get around the tree while being safe. The best high point (pretty crap) would have been about 3 inches in diameter - but this is a Camphor (VERY SNAPPY) so screw that. So we couldn't climb it.

The customer wasn't home so we called him and explained the problem and told him that we had to bump on another $200 for the EWP hire. He agreed and the total came to $850 for the job. We got the job done and everyone was happy and we all went home safe.

If he had not of came to the party, we wouldn't of went forward with the job and simply walked away. No amount of money is worth an injury and that amount of money was not worth the risk/reward ratio.

When it comes down to it, if you wanna go broke, do it at home where you're comfortable.

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Done it

There was a "Tree Surgeon" around here a while back that did the concrete thing, I've removed a lot of his "jobs"

Trouble is nobody tells you, [they don't know usually] and all of a sudden your saw doesn't cut, [must be a knot] try again, xxxxxx, again xxxxx, one stuffed chain.

Just part of the job.

treevet

I once found a cavity filled with concrete 70 (measured) up in a tree. Loved to have seen that operation. They used to equate filling tree cavities to dentistry work.

Most of us have on our contracts around here that HO bears the cost of concrete damage as there is a lot around here.

newguy18

So if you run into a tree that has concrete in it what do you do?cut the wood off from around it or rent a concrete saw an cut slabs off?I'm just asking so i know what to do if i run into one that has concrete in it.

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old schooler

treevet

I have witnessed trunks jackhammered. I have been able to load the ones (many) that I have encountered with a crane and lose them somewhere.

On numerous occasions I have notched and hit with the back cut. At this point I will slowly work the saw around the wood continuing from the rear to the sides up to the holding wood and it usually goes over with a pull rope. The concrete doesn't hold laterally like wood and will break. I did once though have a giant stripped stick on a main street corner in Frenchtown N.J. that stood about 80' and hit hidden concrete on the backcut. The 3' plus dia stick could have hit 4 houses, taken out main electrics, or tipped into Main Street. It luckily fell into the tight yard after I repeatedly bore the side of the bar and chain into the vein of concrete. Lot of nervous people around.

Knotahippie

Dynamite.