Formative pruning is now hacking

pukunui

So it's ok to make a call on a tree without actually investigating the tree?
Whether you are qualified or not that isn't a good way to go about things, im sure others here agree but just don't want to get dragged into this discussion, if you can call it that.

You can keep writing long ranting posts dancing around the issue all you like but i'll keep calling you when you make these sort of claims without backing it up.

KevinE

I've done work for 4 metro councils & have a particularly good relationship with the inspectors at one of them; so without mentioning this forum or identifying you, I asked them about your perceived liability regarding the tree you cut, the answer is what most rational people would have expected: unless you are contracted to the council to inspect or maintain their verges, neither you, nor any other member of the public, has any liability whatsoever to fix any perceived "risk" presented by the tree in question. In fact, you are strictly prohibited from doing so. They have programs in place so that such risks are detected by council staff or contractors. The advice given was for any concerns to be relayed to the council for inspection & if necessary, further action. The senior guy told me that if you did this in his council area & he learned of it, he would pursue legal action against you with vigour!

He raised the point that once you illegally started work on the tree, you would then be liable if anything went wrong. If anyone tripped on the branches you left behind, or any other injury or damage occurred, he would pursue you for any costs to the council. I think he said something like "you would lose everything you own"

I know this guy quite well & he tells it like it is! I've many times cleaned up the yards private homes for him that the council perceived were a fire risk. He gives the owner an official notice with 14 days to clean it up, if they don't he sends me in & he stands guard over me against interference from the home owner while I work. On 2 occasions that I've been involved with, the council has taken possession of the house in question for unpaid rates/fines. So he means what he says!

Apocalypsse

Good god, we need councils with policies and staff like that in more areas.

George Valentine

I wish that you would stop for a bit, and read what I said and not what you assumed I said on the post #6.

-So, is my opinion that, the fellow making all the fuss in the opening post pic (news article) is an idiot, probably a greenie/tree-hugger with a very boring life...!

-Is my opinion that, the persons that wrote that news article, has absolutely no idea...!

-Is my opinion that, the person that authorized that article to get printed, should really be running out of better stories to tell...!

-Is my opinion that, the young fellow that damaged that Platypus Gum branch, as no consideration for his own family or anyone else, by not taking any action to man-up and prevent anyone to get hurt...!

-Is my opinion that, the Gum tree leaning over the main road, is an unnecessary risk, regardless...!

-Is my opinion that, if you are not already working for the council as an arborist (from your attitude and mentality, it seems logic to me) that you should seriously consider and join to the great pack of "nuts" already employed as such. You would certainly make a great team with KevinE's council inspector friend...!

Now, do I have to provide you, with "evidence" of all this...???

Thanks also, for letting me know finally, what you think of my posts...!

This a public forum so, you're welcome to post any time you wish...!

Cheers
George

George Valentine

Kevin,

Is good that you have a good relationship with some of these guys, that will make your life and work a lot easier and pleasant, as you should know how much of a pack of assholes they can be if they dislike you for whatever reason.

Your inspector friend determination in taking no unnecessary risks when it come to trees, is a lot more within my acceptance and admiration levels than those that have identical determination but the other way around, there is, not allowing a branch to be cut from trees, regardless of what risk they pose.

Those are the common type council people that I have a big problem with. I sometimes wonder, how many of these tree-huggers nut heads, have become arborists just to infiltrate themselves in high places and make everyone's life a nightmare...??? It sure, would be the place where they will have most power than hanging/strapping themselves to/from trees, huh...???

I'm also not sure if I would be interested in work under such dangerous conditions, as you described. Knowing well, how strongly and viciously some people defend their trees, and what extents they are prepared to go to defend them, what guarantees do you have that one of those upset/disturbed home owners, don't come out with a shotgun and shoot your head off...???

Certainly not, because the council inspector is there, his presence would be meaningless, with these type people...! I hope that you at least get well paid in those cases...!

Another interesting fact in regards to your decision to take the issue to someone else is that, you gather a dozen council guys from various councils and states and I will bet you that, you would get at least 4 different type of answers and all quite different, and that my friend, would be a fact...!


PS: I just got a phone call from the person that owns the house where this young fellow (Platypus Gum tree) lives/rents and, that tree was planted by him (house owner) 30 years ago, soon after the house was built so, as I suspected and mentioned on my original post, the tree is not council property to start with, but again, wouldn't made any difference, anyway...!

Cheers
George

George Valentine

I reckon...!


Cheers
George

KevinE

Since writing that post this morning, I realised that I've actually done work for another council too, making it 5 (I used to do stuff for a "council assist" scheme, assisting pensioners & people with disabilities. It's a great scheme, the council picks up the tab for work at their homes once per year. They even go halves for other work, including handyman stuff if it goes more than once a year) All 5 councils are great to work for (the money was always very good) & they are all very, very professional in their approach. So I'm a little baffled at why they are being called names here?

KevinE

I get the feeling that I'm wasting my time here, but who planted the tree means 2 fifths of FA. Talk to your own council, they'll tell you that whomever planted the tree, planted it on their property, so the council owns it.

And, the tree is NOT a Platypus Euc!

Done it

You'd have to be pretty stupid to mess with a council owned tree around here I can tell you.

From Baulkham Hills Council website, most other councils have similar veiws and some have higher fines.

'If you are responsible for the removal, damage or lopping of a tree without Council's consent you may be liable for a fine of up to $20,000 (individual) or $100,000 (organisation). Be aware that trees on public land, including nature strips, are Council property.'

George Valentine

Good for you, Kevin...!

Well, there is a big difference in between your "connection"/dealings with Councils and general members of the public, such as property/house owners, trying to have their tree issues dealt with.

You are called or won the contract for a particular council job, and rarely you are told or are aware of the "stuff" that went on, sometimes for years, in fact none of that is of your concern or responsibility to know so, you are told what to do and that is it...!

So, is no surprise that your experience with various Councils, hasn't been a traumatic one, still I reckon you have been quite lucky...!

On the other hand, and while I had some very successful dealings with some councils, I have also dealt with some of the most arrogant and ignorant council people, particularly in the tree area issues. They always leave a bad taste in my mouth and any trust that I may have had that, these people are there to look at cases/applications and use common sense as part of their decisions, that always seem to look into one direction, their own pre-set, rigid and ridiculous concepts, we see examples nearly everyday in the news and they are only a minority of what is going on all around Australia...!

There are a number of very dedicated certified arborists at the moment, trying to change all that or at least, have Councils to adapt a more reasonable approach to the major issues of concern from the general public.

I hope that, in the end result is a much more "balanced" system for everyone...!

PS: could you please advise of what the tree name is, as I ever saw a hand full of these in town and this one was the only one that I had the chance to get close to. The whole extreme heavy weight of every part of this tree and short/stubby shape/size, remind me of the Platypus Gum, but bark, leafs and pods aren't the same...!

Cheers
George

George Valentine

Thanks mate, I'm well aware of the conditions and penalty systems generally implemented by councils, as I'm also familiar with the "traditional" areas of land and anything included in it, that are councils property or other Government authority/Department, in and out of urban/residential areas.
I find "most" of fines amounts a total rip-off, money making scam, particularly on small stuff. I you rather prefer to see a system where people would have to plant at a designated location enough trees to replace the damaged or removed tree's capacity to produce oxygen.

This obviously wouldn't be practical for all situations but would certainly be applicable is a lot of cases...!

Cheers
George

Apocalypsse

Right on the ball there. Everything from the fenceline onwards is council property. If you plant something on a council verge, it belongs to council, you relinquish any ownership of the plant. Council doesn't need to ask permission for any works on the tree, some councils may even pursue you for planting a tree there.

The tree in the pictures looks like a C. ficifolia.

KevinE

+1 on all of the above.

Ficifolia is my guess too.

George Valentine

Well, I looked at Ficifolia on the web and I'm not yet convinced so I may get some samples and require a tree identification with the "gurus"...!

Cheers
George