Fig tree at 7eleven Sinnamon Park Brisbane

Eric Frei

This big old fig that was abused, roots severed and buried most likely when the place was built had a huge stem fail.

A tree company cleaned up that mess and quoted the remainder, as you can see it's a large tree and busy spot. Most likely you'd need traffic control, crane and EWP to get it down fast with minimal interruption.

I checked with BCC and there's no protection orders on the tree, it sits just inside the servo's boundary.

I took the pics from my mobile phone but the shots get the message across.

Here in the first pic you can see where the leader hit the servo's roof, and note the advanced decline and deadwood of the canopy.



In this second pic you can now see where the failure occurred and the weighting of the tree over the busy road.



The next two pics show where the failure was head on.





Now heads up, the next 4 pictures are around the entire base, do note that it is buried and fruiting bodies the entire perimeter.









And I'm holding one of the many fruiting bodies that was lying around, I call it evidence. Evidence of negligence.



I'd say Ganoderma. I'd say get the rest of that tree down urgent.

Now when I spoke with BCC they dont have a rule or law like other councils that forces people to deal with their dangerous trees. Meanwhile thousands of cars and people go right past that, stiff shit if you were killed by it when it fell, and what does the owner of the servo say?

That's the golden question, what does the owner of the servo say? I dont know as I haven't personally spoken to him however rumour has it that it's too expensive to remove so too bad, it stays.

The message to me says come here and spend your money, make me rich and I dont give a rats ass about you or your safety.

This is a franchise store so I have sent the link to this thread to the 7eleven franchise owners, lets see what they say, lets see if they give a stuff.

Oh by the way, I hate working for free, I wonder if they even offer a bit of fuel for an experts advice.

I'd also like to send this to their insurance company to show that the " Ignore it then claim insurance! " is alive and well.

Also I am available for a quote or on a consultative basis, phone 1300 720 363

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Drouin Tree Service

Holy Crap!!!Hope it doesnt fall on them

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kiwi_tree_steve

Correct me please if im wrong,

from what i understand, Ganoderma alone would not be a reason to take down?
however, with the damage done and condition of canopy, i can see that it may be the right call

the owner thinks its too expensive to takedown, and it is a Decent sized tree, the gap would look odd to the locals, do you think removing dead wood, and some Pruning, with a brace system of some sort, posibley, Guying to the ground, and a non invasive cable brace in the canopy, could be an option?

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Sean Freeman

Failing either way its not a good prospect!!! Nasty.



Just saw your post kiwi_tree_steve, the fungi may not be Ganoderma, could be Inonotus sp, either way it is the loss of structural support through a significant section of the root crown that is the issue rather than the id of the fungal parasite.

Based on the pics I would suspect that a reasonable storm event could put that tree on the ground, and whilst its unlikely to strike any pedestrians in such conditions (possible but unlikely) vehicle traffic would be likely to remain a target even in a storm (esp during a weekday).

I would suspect the root damage on the road and footpath side would be substantial and consequently the dysfunction also substantial...looks like a removal to me....documented risk assessment to council would force the issue.

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Eric Frei

No way, it's gotta go, rotted roots are not to be messed with.

A large fig fell in New Farm Park, not even as bad as this.

Redland Shire has had same with large old figs, again fruiting bodies around base. Fig's wood decays quick, if it's in the root crown then you are in trouble.

Poor callusing around large wounds on previous cuts too, this thing is well on the way out ... use by date is now.

The time to have done something for it was at development, ripping roots apart with dozers and filling doesn't do much for any tree.

This is on an intersection with round-a-bout. If it falls at a busy time of day cars will be hit. Extensive canopy decline is VTA of extensive root damage.

If you were going to keep this then detailed root crown analysis and decay test, severe reduction pruning which would only expediate the decline. Large columns of decay are present in some of the huge leaders, the trees vigour is lost and shown with poor callus. Pour all the nutrients on it you want but roots aren't there to take it up.

Time to move forward with this one.

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treeseer

Should be interesting to see if corporate responds.

I've called local law enforcement on trees like that.

I agree with sean and eric both on this one; thanks for posting it.

Jeff Darby

A time to save and nurture and a time to get on with business, Yes a shame this has happened,but we have to be realists on the safety aspect of this tree based on what i've seen presented in the photos l feel it's only a matter of time before this tree fails. It needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later being in a target rich environment.

I think they removed a lot of Figs from a park in Sydney with similier problems a couple of years ago.Most of the structual support from the roots were decayed and basically they were just standing waiting to fall over.It was hard to see these Figs go aswell as Sydney siders grew up them, However with such a target rich area of Sydney,Litterally thousands of people pass under them everyday,I think it was a very responsable move to remove them before they started killing innocent folk through castastrophic failure of the tree.

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Drouin Tree Service

Being Qld they will wait till it falls...

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arborjockey

So what do you do when a hazardous tree (your evaluating) is leaning over the neighbors playground set? I let the neighbor know about it and now its been three months and nothing. Huge tree.. my boss sent me over to see if we could get a crane to it and thats when i told, the single mother of twins the tree thats over her house is hallow. I told the boss that the tree is slowly crumbling down. He usually subs out questionable trees out to crazy local climbers but nothing yet...

TrevMcRev

A history of failure is recorded. A major structural defect has been identified.
Further major failure is likely. Removal has been recommended. The corporation has been made aware.

Failure to act promptly with all the above information is negligence.

Lets see what they do.

I vote 1 free tank of fuel, a can of V and Mars Bar for Ekka for the free consultation as fair reward for services rendered thus far.

treeseer

a can of V? Valvoline? Vaseline? Viagra? Valium?

How hollow is it? How can the risk be mitigated?

The reality is, everything carries risk. A “defect” has been defined as a visible sign that a tree has the potential to fail. However, since every tree has the potential to fail, the questions of how visible, and how much potential, remain. Any harmless feature of a tree that looks unfamiliar to the inexperienced observer can be called a defect that creates a “hazard tree”, defined as a tree with an unacceptable level of risk to a target.

The question is, what can be done about it? All risks can be lowered (abated, mitigated, lessened), but when arboricultural options are not carefully considered and clearly communicated, the owners cannot make an informed decision. Quickly labeling “defects” and “hazards” can lead to the needless removal of valuable trees, when more conservative actions may have been more reasonable.

phill ellison

I had the same problem about 2 or 3 years ago with a badly damage oak tree that belong to the local council right next to a school, I told the council bout it asap and that it was very urgent, they said thay will look in to it but never did. As you might have guess it, one month later, it came down , brought down 11,000 V wires , broke power pole in half and damage a car, it was bloody lucky there was no kids or anybody near there, after that the council had a damn good wake up call

Sean Freeman

Bit tired and still work to do, but his thread is important so a couple of points Guy's mesage is very important generally we must be very sure and confident about the trees we label hazardous, and how we use the terms risk and hazard...they are not the same thing. We should always be risk averse and I believe we all are...documentation is the key to approaching any kind of assessment, use the best methodology you have available to you, Matheny and Clarks assessment forms are freely available and all the LGA's I've ever come across have Tree Officers who have at least seen those forms.

Be aware that most councils and municipalities recieve many hundreds of complaints about vegetation, and are at times careful about responding to phone/verbal communication on such issues. Get it in writing, demonstrate the rigor and quality if your assessment (if that is what you have done), present the observable facts together with the VTA indicators (where present). When you combine this with a significant measure of local knowledge about the species and the conditions (soil etc) combined with your concerns (predictable outcome in worst case scenario) and I would be very surprised (amazed!!!!) if any LGA did not respond to a situation such as that which Eric has presented.

We can be (and IMO should be) extra eyes and ears for the LGA in this regard, you can build good relationships with tree officers when you provide them with the means to better manage their tree assets.

fosheezy

yep i agrizzle ma nizzle, that shizzle's gotta go it's stuffed....izzle.

Also i agree with professionally documenting the hazard potential and risk using proper quantifyable methods. Basically what this brings me to is whether any of you guys out there have had any experience with the quantified tree risk assessment by mike ellison. In my opinion its far superior to matheney and clarks method, the only weird thing is that apparently you need to do the training course with mike and pay an annual fee to use the method....

Is QTRA being used in australia?
If so what are your thoughts on it?
What do you think about having to pay to use it?

oh yeah, why do arborists keep complaining about undercharging these days.... a can of v and a mars bar for professional consulting... i'd be inclined to give the owner half of the bar back so i didnt feel bad about overcharging!

Sean Freeman

Answers...

Yes it is being used in Oz, by people like me.

I think it is the most appropriate methodology for quatifying the exposure of assessable risk from trees. I also think it is a more defendable system of assessing risk than others that I am aware of.

I have absolutely no problem having to pay to be a licensed user of QTRA.

treeseer

QTRA is not well comprehended in the US because it was formed in the context of British law.

I do not know anyone here who uses it.

One attempt to numerically measure the degree of risk is the Quantified Tree Risk Assessment system (QTRA), which was devised in the context of law in the United Kingdom. Using this system, the risk of harm presented by a tree with dead branches over a road is 1 in 8,200. Removing the dead branches reduces that risk to 1 in 45,000, far safer than the 1 in 10,000 that is considered by medical groups to be acceptable to the public.

You may or may not want to put a hard number on risk, using the QTRA or another system. It all depends on the job and the owners’ needs and style of communication, but it is important to remember that there is no zero-risk scenario. An experienced arborist can inspect a tree, assess in relative terms the risk of failure and the risk of harm, and describe reasonable actions that can lower those risks.

fosheezy

good point when you put it that way, i guess paying for a liscence does stop cowboys from going ahead and using it potentially to their advantage and not unbiased-ly.

how often would you say you submit a qtra report to a client? can you tell me a bit about your experience with it? (now that i know it is indeed being used in aus i'll be keen to look into it when i come home)

Sean Freeman

5 QTRA reports in 12 months

For me trying to quantify risk has changed the way I view tree risk assessments. I no longer focus on defects but concentrate on targets. I try hard to help tree owners seperate percieved risk from assessable risk, and to make decisions about how they allocate resources accordingly....owners can decide to spend their money anyway they see fit, but often the choices they make are not based on what is assessable as a significant risk to persons or property.

newguy18

[ng has look of utter disbelief on his face]your actually recomending a td?

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old schooler

Eric Frei

How much does a QTRA licence cost etc?

NG, I think Guy understands the implications of extensive root rot in poor compatmentalizers and the 24/7 operation of the site. The options for pruning this tree to a measurable level of risk would mean 50% off the canopy with no target cuts, large wounds .... more decline.

It's near a no win, but possible.

Root rot is not to be messed with, it's a serious condition that when well established there's generally little remedy for.

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TrevMcRev

Ekka could probably use all of the above

Its an energy drink, like a RedBull....

arborjockey

Well TREESEER,
Its not my tree to deal with. My boss had me asses it and its out of our league. To drive a crane to the tree would mean dropping power to about 30 houses. The Hackberry (celtis occidentalis) is huge 80feet high with a 45-55'canopy. The tree had a codminat stem that was braced and maybe cabled back 10 years ago . Since then the tree has split in half(maybe 4-5 years ago) the allthread is still there hanging out of the hallow half. Now half the trunk gone the other half is 80% full of soil and garbage from the racoons living in it. I was their in high winds and the base was crunchig. The tree hangs over the neighbors house who have kids. I told the lady with the kids we could not do the work but make sure they have somebody do it. I also told her in high winds id go to sleep at her moms house, its that bad. 3 months later nothing....

Jeff Darby

God help me ! Based on what you have expressed in your post about the tree It's sound to me you have given a good call, Treeseer was only expressing his opinion on to many tree's being condemed when there are alternate methods still available to save the tree. The tree you mentioned has already been cabled around a decade ago but still it has declined given it's location and the fact nothing has been done to the tree in 3 mths of your advice the owner cannot afford to go ahead with what ever their decision was about the tree or they are saving up.The picture you have painted in my mind with your post I would also recomend removal ASAP.l love my Tree's as much as the rest of the good folk on Treeworld do! However l have chosen to be realistic in their care,save where you can,removed when needed, then plant some more.
May The Only Limb's You Cut Be Wood.
JayD

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Eric Frei

Well, hows this.

Got a call and located the large section that fell.

Got some great pics.



Looking from the top down

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Garry Brockley

[QUOTE=Ekka;34012]How much does a QTRA licence cost etc?

here is a link to the site for pricing

Quantified Tree Risk Assessment

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arborjockey

thanks JayD
I warned them. The tree will fall and it will land in their yard/house. No trees above it no real way to get a crane in. Hope they can afford a helicopter.

Steve Tipton

VB?

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Heightmaster

Eric Frei

These sorts of things happen too often, here's just another example, there's many, many of them posted throughout the Treeworld site.

Deputy sues in tree accident- NOLA.com

Tree owners have a "duty of care" and to be ignorant is no excuse.

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newguy18

I'm sure he does,i was being a smart aleck.

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old schooler

Eric Frei

So 9 months later .... what has happened?

Nothing.

But things are seriously degrading and the risk escalating.

Here's some pictures, there's lots and lots of fresh fruiting bodies everywhere. In fact you'd think it was a mushroom farm. Lots of deadwood falling and new ... fruiting bodies on scaffold limb over road and footpath.

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