Exposing another shame file

Ekka · 1st June 2007, 06:14 PM

Have a look at the pics. Tell me.

Is this pruning to AS4373 (target cuts)?

Ekka · 1st June 2007, 07:17 PM

Part 1

First off I rang the customer from the sign writing on the vehicle parked near the house.

I asked why the pruning in the first place ... and it was to make the trees safer as branch dropped out.

I asked who did the job and was told Morrie's Tree Care and he suggested that they be reduced and pruned up safer like they are including overhang from neibs tree on LH side.

I started to discuss the pruning in more detail and the customer went cold and said it was none of my business and to keep my nose out of their business.

So, knowing Morrie's Tree Care is just up the road with a sign on the fence I drove up and got a pic.

Then I rang Morrie.

He said the trees were made safer and pruned in accordance with AS4373. He went on to say that whilst he is not an arborist he has worked on trees 8 years to 9 years now and used to be the foreman for Brisbane Tree Services. He said his cuts were no different to that of an arborist and he had great knowledge of how to make trees safer.

I mentioned the lack of foliage and he reckons they'll bush up nice now.... this is what you have to do and it's right he reckons.

Ekka · 1st June 2007, 07:27 PM

Part 2

I just got off the phone with Kim (ccc48) from Brisbane City Council after doing a Protected Vegetation search and guess what?

The entire property has protection, one of the toughest in fact, SLT (significant landscape tree), toward the top of this link here's what it says.
http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/BCC:B...6828:pc=PC_297

Quote:

You can carry out the following work on protected vegetation without a permit:

1. Tree pruning (except a Significant Landscape Tree, a tree protected by an individual tree vegetation protection order and a heritage tree).
You must not remove more than 20% of the tree's canopy in any 12-month period or leave the tree lopsided. All tree pruning must conform to Australian Standard 4373 : 1996 Pruning of Amenity Trees. You can buy a copy of this standard from Standards Australia.

So, both the customer and the "arborist" are in a lot of hot water. I have no pity, I hope they get their azzes fined.

And any other profession would deregister such malpractitioners

Ekka · 1st June 2007, 08:10 PM

Part 3

Just now 1.04pm Dan from BCC rang me and said permits were granted for pruning works to 6 forest red gums at above location.

Part of the condition was council was to re-inspect but hasn't done so yet.

I mentioned the topping and zero foliage etc and they'll have an officer out soon.

I mentioned that no way does the pruning conform to AS4373 and if this is allowed then it'll be the laughing stock of tree management in Australia... imagine that, being allowed to prune protected trees like that.

Now lets see how this pans out. Very interesting case to follow, their own rules state pruning to AS4373 is req'd.

a_lopa · 1st June 2007, 10:13 PM

Very interesting Ekka,i wont hold my breath on it but maybe you will force them into acting.

Sean Freeman · 1st June 2007, 10:30 PM

Oh dear sounds like BCC are losing the plot, would like to hear their side....permit to prune protected evenly weakly protected trees with no cutting specs...sounds kind of sus?

I'm sorry Morrie but you have zero credibility mate, if you want to lop and top and can sell that to your client fine, but please don't try and quote standards and specs to us to defend sub standard (in the truest meaning) work, you just sound stupid and desperate.....yeah you do....I've worked with LGA cutting crews on and off since coming to Oz and the better crews have very experienced gangers who might not be qualified arborists but they do understand what lopping is and they would not do it to protected trees. So don't try to grasp at straws by suggestng that council crews would do what you've done.

matt dallas · 1st June 2007, 11:17 PM

their are some cowboys out their ekka , your doing a good job on cracking down on them, my groundy's can prune better than that ha,

Ekka · 2nd June 2007, 12:26 AM

I've had a gut full.

I started to get used to it then when Jim came out he re-ignited the flame.

I'm sick of being told to STFU and mind my own business.

By doing this I am minding my own business, in the caretaker sense of exposing the hypocrites and hacks. That in effect will help my business, the more of them that lift their game or piss off the better.

Good trees getting butchered for a buck.

People calling themselves arborists who aren't or worse, who are but forgot what it means.

I'm trying to make a living in this city too, the right way. I leave written quotes and clear explanations and have more info on my websites than these guys (including customers) would have read in their lives about trees.

No-ones rattling the cage, no association is addressing it or has addressed it since I've been around ... must be in the too hard basket. How many of these hacks are hiding in organisations as I type?

Well, tough shit, it's getting made public, and the best part is you are allowed to.

Putting pictures of your tree work on the internet should be something you'd be proud to do, not scared of and threaten people, that my friend is a blatant sign of dishonesty and fraud.

I even had the glen from Q-Build say to me, "how'd you like it if some-one followed you around putting pics up of your work?" Yeah, I'd love it, bring it on, in fact I do it myself nearly every day, I'm bloody proud of my work and proud to walk away from insistent fools wanting a hack job.

Feel sorry for no-one, they chose to do it, they have a brain ... it's up to them how they use it. It really makes my skin crawl to hear their pathetic threats and justifications ... and their KNOW IT ALL BULL SHIT!

When I drive around I look out for this stuff, you should all do the same and take a pro-active stance. Post them up here and get the facts, question the customers/authorities and tree companies ... if it's going to change then it happens for a reason, and that reason will be the evidence we supply.

JayD · 2nd June 2007, 01:02 AM

Hi,
When I first looked at this it reminded me of the pruning Gomez Adams used to do on the Adam's Family, Do you's blokes remember that show???. What a pure unadulterated hack job, neatly hacked but hacked,please show me we in AS4373 does it show this method of corrective pruning??.Please correct me if I'm wrong! but an Australian Standard is the bare minumum/level of training and application we can expect from a tradesman in the application of his trade, This represention of work we have here comes no where near the mark, and the perpetraiters need to held responsable!.Now from the tree's health,let's have a quick look at this.we all know QLD is in the grip of probably the worst drought we seen for a long time so,

These poor trees :
# are drought stressed and along comes Joe Hack only looking at the money side of things and cuts of the food factory,BRILLIANT,now not only are they drought stressed,now their going strait into emergency recovery mode to get some more canopy back up there to feed the tree,what does grow back will be pure epicormic regrowth with no structuall attachement to the main trunk at all which will cause,if these trees survive,more danger to the owners up the road and more cost as these limbs break of in storms.From a hacks point of view great more money for him as he continually pulls the wool over the customer eyes,
From an Arborist's outlook this is pure negligent practice and an insult to our profesion.and as far as throwing up a smoke cloud people are not stupid.
WORK TO THE STANDARD OR GET OUT OF THE TREE CARE GAME because what these pictures represents is pure butchery!

TreeCo · 2nd June 2007, 07:36 PM

Good work Ekka. Hold them to the fire!

TREE-SURFER · 3rd June 2007, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

I've had a gut full.

I started to get used to it then when Jim came out he re-ignited the flame.

I'm sick of being told to STFU and mind my own business.

By doing this I am minding my own business, in the caretaker sense of exposing the hypocrites and hacks. That in effect will help my business, the more of them that lift their game or piss off the better.

Good trees getting butchered for a buck.

I'm trying to make a living in this city too, the right way.

Too bloody true mate. We are minding our business and the good for our local trees that people own. Hatrackers and pikies are just too abundant and people are too intimidated by a cheaper quote and don't look at the aspects that are offered by us professionals. On speaking to a guy the other day, I learned that lawyers over here are charging ?280 per hour, for they're professional services, so if the customers were to try and sue the pikies, look at the charges they are facing on top of trying to get the job done right.
When are people going to listen and get it right the first time. Working for a couple of other Arb companies, I get to hear some stories of customers who have had to get the professionals in after a top and lop job. Still amazes me that people will always go for the cheaper quote.
Will you people please listen to us, we are not trying to get more money out of you, we are here to help you get what your trees deserve.
Lets face facts; would you go for a cheaper quote if it were your teeth that needed drilling or would you ask an expert?.......Go figure

TREE-SURFER · 3rd June 2007, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Have a look at the pics. Tell me.

Is this pruning to AS4373 (target cuts)?

Looks like the infamous M Galbraith has been working in Brisbane....

JohN Dee · 3rd June 2007, 04:11 AM

It’s a good thing this bloke doesn’t call himself an Arborist otherwise he’d have a heap of lawsuits for defamation. Morrie, you need to either get qualified and learn some ethics or GET OUT OF OUR INDUSTRY!

This kind of work is appalling and a disgrace to the tree industry and everyone who is an Arborist. When is this government going to act on these situations? When it is too late? When it takes out their BMW? When a Lopped n Topped tree falls and kills one of their loved ones? And then when it does happen, they will take it too far...

Ekka · 3rd June 2007, 04:28 AM

His sign says

Quote:

Tree's Made Safe 4 You

TrevMcRev · 3rd June 2007, 03:20 PM

His sign should say

Quote:

trees made safe 4 you FOR NOW! and never mind the consequences to your trees health or saftey in the future!

View Poll Results: Is this pruning to AS4373 (target cuts)?
Yes	0	0%
No	18	100.00%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

1st June 2007, 08:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,933	Part 3 Just now 1.04pm Dan from BCC rang me and said permits were granted for pruning works to 6 forest red gums at above location. Part of the condition was council was to re-inspect but hasn't done so yet. I mentioned the topping and zero foliage etc and they'll have an officer out soon. I mentioned that no way does the pruning conform to AS4373 and if this is allowed then it'll be the laughing stock of tree management in Australia... imagine that, being allowed to prune protected trees like that. Now lets see how this pans out. Very interesting case to follow, their own rules state pruning to AS4373 is req'd. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

1st June 2007, 10:13 PM	#5 (permalink)
a_lopa Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Drouin Posts: 877	Very interesting Ekka,i wont hold my breath on it but maybe you will force them into acting. __________________ Free Tree Industry Link Directory Drouin tree lopping, land clearing and stump removals

1st June 2007, 10:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Oh dear sounds like BCC are losing the plot, would like to hear their side....permit to prune protected evenly weakly protected trees with no cutting specs...sounds kind of sus? I'm sorry Morrie but you have zero credibility mate, if you want to lop and top and can sell that to your client fine, but please don't try and quote standards and specs to us to defend sub standard (in the truest meaning) work, you just sound stupid and desperate.....yeah you do....I've worked with LGA cutting crews on and off since coming to Oz and the better crews have very experienced gangers who might not be qualified arborists but they do understand what lopping is and they would not do it to protected trees. So don't try to grasp at straws by suggestng that council crews would do what you've done. __________________ Sean Trees are poems that earth writes upon the sky, We fell them down and turn them into paper, That we may record our emptiness. - Kahlil Gibran Last edited by Sean Freeman : 2nd June 2007 at 12:04 AM.

2nd June 2007, 12:26 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,933	I've had a gut full. I started to get used to it then when Jim came out he re-ignited the flame. I'm sick of being told to STFU and mind my own business. By doing this I am minding my own business, in the caretaker sense of exposing the hypocrites and hacks. That in effect will help my business, the more of them that lift their game or piss off the better. Good trees getting butchered for a buck. People calling themselves arborists who aren't or worse, who are but forgot what it means. I'm trying to make a living in this city too, the right way. I leave written quotes and clear explanations and have more info on my websites than these guys (including customers) would have read in their lives about trees. No-ones rattling the cage, no association is addressing it or has addressed it since I've been around ... must be in the too hard basket. How many of these hacks are hiding in organisations as I type? Well, tough shit, it's getting made public, and the best part is you are allowed to. Putting pictures of your tree work on the internet should be something you'd be proud to do, not scared of and threaten people, that my friend is a blatant sign of dishonesty and fraud. I even had the glen from Q-Build say to me, "how'd you like it if some-one followed you around putting pics up of your work?" Yeah, I'd love it, bring it on, in fact I do it myself nearly every day, I'm bloody proud of my work and proud to walk away from insistent fools wanting a hack job. Feel sorry for no-one, they chose to do it, they have a brain ... it's up to them how they use it. It really makes my skin crawl to hear their pathetic threats and justifications ... and their KNOW IT ALL BULL SHIT! When I drive around I look out for this stuff, you should all do the same and take a pro-active stance. Post them up here and get the facts, question the customers/authorities and tree companies ... if it's going to change then it happens for a reason, and that reason will be the evidence we supply. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

1st June 2007, 11:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
matt dallas Sappling Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 7	their are some cowboys out their ekka , your doing a good job on cracking down on them, my groundy's can prune better than that ha,

2nd June 2007, 01:02 AM	#9 (permalink)
JayD Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 941	Hi, When I first looked at this it reminded me of the pruning Gomez Adams used to do on the Adam's Family, Do you's blokes remember that show???. What a pure unadulterated hack job, neatly hacked but hacked,please show me we in AS4373 does it show this method of corrective pruning??.Please correct me if I'm wrong! but an Australian Standard is the bare minumum/level of training and application we can expect from a tradesman in the application of his trade, This represention of work we have here comes no where near the mark, and the perpetraiters need to held responsable!.Now from the tree's health,let's have a quick look at this.we all know QLD is in the grip of probably the worst drought we seen for a long time so, These poor trees : # are drought stressed and along comes Joe Hack only looking at the money side of things and cuts of the food factory,BRILLIANT,now not only are they drought stressed,now their going strait into emergency recovery mode to get some more canopy back up there to feed the tree,what does grow back will be pure epicormic regrowth with no structuall attachement to the main trunk at all which will cause,if these trees survive,more danger to the owners up the road and more cost as these limbs break of in storms.From a hacks point of view great more money for him as he continually pulls the wool over the customer eyes, From an Arborist's outlook this is pure negligent practice and an insult to our profesion.and as far as throwing up a smoke cloud people are not stupid. WORK TO THE STANDARD OR GET OUT OF THE TREE CARE GAME because what these pictures represents is pure butchery! __________________ Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory

2nd June 2007, 07:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
TreeCo Mature tree Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 259	Good work Ekka. Hold them to the fire!

3rd June 2007, 04:11 AM	#13 (permalink)
JohN Dee Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 750	It’s a good thing this bloke doesn’t call himself an Arborist otherwise he’d have a heap of lawsuits for defamation. Morrie, you need to either get qualified and learn some ethics or GET OUT OF OUR INDUSTRY! This kind of work is appalling and a disgrace to the tree industry and everyone who is an Arborist. When is this government going to act on these situations? When it is too late? When it takes out their BMW? When a Lopped n Topped tree falls and kills one of their loved ones? And then when it does happen, they will take it too far... __________________ Climber with slow climbing speed, must make up with mighty chainsaw roar. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Red : Green : Blue