Exposing another shame file

OutofMytree · 11th November 2008, 09:59 PM

Guy, you know I have been a voice of moderation in the past. So it should be a wake up call for you when I say that I have seen nothing in this thread which is bad for our industry or this forum. I respect and appreciate your arboriculture knowledge, but I must say that in this instance Eric is clearly right. Good news does not sell. Buy a newspaper or watch the news and count the good vs bad news stories. 1:5 if your lucky, but more like 1:10. It essential that we as arborists show the general public EXACTLY what is right and wrong in the care of trees. Otherwise we are no different to people who stand back allow crimes to occur without intervention. I could not watch a bag-snatcher knock down an old lady for her handbag, nor will I allow a chainsaw cowboy to mutilate trees and call it arbor work. I doubt that you would allow it to pass either.

As for good news. We daily see posts of quality work done by forum members. If you particularly want to see pictures of good work done by other arborists then you are free to start a thread with examples of your own. Who knows, maybe there will be others who will contribute to that thread and we may achieve the balance you seem to be looking for.

TreeDimensional · 12th November 2008, 08:26 AM

The reality of tree work is "if you do a good job for a client, they will tell a friend; if you do a bad job, they will tell anyone who will listen". It only goes to reason that it is easier to find glaring abortion like the picture Ekka posted.

The question asked was, Does this conform to the Oz standard? I would think that treeseer, of all people, would like to put guys like the one that did that ? pruning, out of business.

JayD · 12th November 2008, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeDimensional

The reality of tree work is "if you do a good job for a client, they will tell a friend; if you do a bad job, they will tell anyone who will listen". It only goes to reason that it is easier to find glaring abortion like the picture Ekka posted.

The question asked was, Does this conform to the Oz standard? I would think that treeseer, of all people, would like to put guys like the one that did that ? pruning, out of business.

Question answered, No The exzample presented in these pictures is pure topping, No rationale at all behind it, apart from imo, money By bringing this type of butchery to the eyes of the powers that be hopefully we can start to have the TPO policed and also serves to educate the public.

It seems the only way for Ekka to combat this is to expose the perpertraitors here on Treeworld, Your, Ours, open media to the public.

Besides all the work carried out to our standards are in the picture forum.

Knotahippie · 12th November 2008, 09:30 AM

I like Seer's idea...

Let's thread about some legends. I don't care if they knock doors or work for some lab.

As for me, when See'r talks I listen good. Then I do my homework.

If I remember correctly he was the first BCMA in the US...

Dude's a Legend.

JayD · 12th November 2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotahippie

I like Seer's idea...

Let's thread about some legends. I don't care if they knock doors or work for some lab.

As for me, when See'r talks I listen good. Then I do my homework.

If I remember correctly he was the first BCMA in the US...

Dude's a Legend.

I dont know about Treeseer reputation in the the states, but the fact you mention this does not surprise me.
However their are people on this forum that also hold claim to the title,Legend Like Ekka, Sean Freeman,Trevmcrev,alopa, all highly trained Arborists.

Knotahippie · 12th November 2008, 09:41 AM

Not surprised that I mention it?

What do you mean?

JayD · 12th November 2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotahippie

Not surprised that I mention it?

What do you mean?

Reputations are rarely promoted by the person who has one. What did I mean by it? Nothing derogitory, I did think I was clear in what I said.

Ekka · 12th November 2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotahippie

If I remember correctly he was the first BCMA in the US...

Dude's a Legend.

He might be, but does that entitle him to tell people what to post, and if he doesn't get his own way ... run away?

His reason for leaving has nothing to do with his BCMA.

He can choose to post whatever he likes within the constraints of acceptable behaviour. He can read whatever he likes, he's a grown man, but that doesn't mean he can tell others what to do, then denigrate an entire forum due to his distorted perspective.

Quote:

If

is the guiding philosophy of treeworld.info, then this is not a good place to be.

It's not the guiding philosophy of treeworld, it's my opinion, and I want to reassure others they are welcome to post what they damn well like, negative or positive.

I present evidence that with the trumpet blowing merrily from the towers of Babel, all those lovely organisations founded decades or so ago, all those publications and articles, all those lovely tree pictures and greenies plus tree huggers patting themselves on the back that the real world is not like that. That whilst these people have been believing their euphoric visions hundreds of us daily are combatting hacks, door knockers, ignorant customers who demand tree atrocities be committed.

The problem is not islolated to just here, it's global, and just as bad in the USA where whistling dixie aint putting tops back on trees.

Here's also a thread where the USA Federal Govt is asking for help to reduce the carnage in tree work.

OSHA| USA| Tree Care Operations | Asking Your Input

Seems at the coal face things have in reality got worse on that front, even though gear is better than it's ever been.

We've discussed issues like:-
Ignore it then claim insurance!

Another Blown over tree failure for insurance

Fig tree at 7eleven Sinnamon Park Brisbane

And the Grand Daddy thread that rocked the town ....
Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues| NT school tree kills boy and were advised!

And even issues where, and this happens right now today, fresh unqualified people get P/L insurance straight off the bat, same price as long term qualified people, even the insurance companies DON'T CARE, search a trolls posts by the name of Aerial.

So what is the philosophy of tree world? I'm sure everyone has their own answer.

TrevMcRev · 12th November 2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotahippie

Let's thread about some legends. I don't care if they knock doors or work for some lab.

I think that would make a good thread. A showcase of quality arb work.

Most of us try to show our own best work in our own picture threads, but a common thread where anyone can put up pics or info on any work they have seen would benefit all.

It would go hand in hand with the "negative tree work" threads.

Sometimes you dont know how good good is till you see the bad, and dont know how bad bad is untill you see the good!

Potential customers or anyone we are trying to educate could be directed to both threads to fully appreciate the difference.

OutofMytree · 12th November 2008, 08:28 PM

Good idea Trev. I'm always keen to show off my godly arbor skills..... Of course I would need some work in order to do that

gids · 20th November 2008, 03:44 PM

Oh man, brings a tear to your eye.

OutofMytree · 20th November 2008, 04:12 PM

Sigh....

Ekka · 20th November 2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gids

Oh man, brings a tear to your eye.

LOL, dang the brocoli grow big in your parts.

Look at the euc in the background, that one was done years prior, dont these fools learn?

Shame, shame shame ... where's Derryn Hinch when you need him, stick the email address up for the local council and lets give them some education.

gids · 20th November 2008, 09:37 PM

This photo is at Rufus River/Lake Victoria, Not sure what council it is something to do with SA Water.

The other 2 are at Pooncarie country NSW.

Both could be under the Wentworth Shire Council.

council@wentworth.nsw.gov.au
Wentworth Shire Council

OutofMytree · 21st November 2008, 02:06 AM

Thanks for the link Gids. This is what I sent.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am seeking information as to the pruning of trees on what may be land under your council’s control. I include this link to Exposing another shame file - Page 2 - Tree World at an online forum for arborists worldwide, where pictures of these trees have been posted. I am sure you believe, as do I, that public safety is of the utmost importance. So preventing actions which may well lead to injury, property damage or even death is top priority. With this in mind I would appreciate a prompt response confirming the location of the trees pictured and who is responsible for this clear breach of Australian arbor standards.

On a similar note, could you please forward a copy of the criteria your council uses to select arborists for work on your property.

Best Regards,

John Holliday

Jim's Trees Dianella

Mob: 0418 28 99 88

ABN 57 093 877 493

Yes, we do return phone calls!

Yes, our advice is free!

Yes, we can make your problem disappear!

Yes, we have access to more than $10 MILLION of state of the art equipment!

C'mon people. Send em an email.

treefeller · 18th January 2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutofMytree

Thanks for the link Gids. This is what I sent.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am seeking information as to the pruning of trees on what may be land under your council’s control. I include this link to Exposing another shame file - Page 2 - Tree World at an online forum for arborists worldwide, where pictures of these trees have been posted. I am sure you believe, as do I, that public safety is of the utmost importance. So preventing actions which may well lead to injury, property damage or even death is top priority. With this in mind I would appreciate a prompt response confirming the location of the trees pictured and who is responsible for this clear breach of Australian arbor standards.

On a similar note, could you please forward a copy of the criteria your council uses to select arborists for work on your property.

Best Regards,

John Holliday

Jim's Trees Dianella

Mob: 0418 28 99 88

ABN 57 093 877 493

Yes, we do return phone calls!

Yes, our advice is free!

Yes, we can make your problem disappear!

Yes, we have access to more than $10 MILLION of state of the art equipment!

C'mon people. Send em an email.

Have you heard anything

treevet · 19th January 2009, 12:06 AM

Looks like he got banned TF.

treefeller · 19th January 2009, 12:40 AM

Fair enough

Q.Q. · 20th January 2009, 09:42 PM

Hmm I need some advice on stuff like this?. PLEASE.

To Ekka's post about the Euc in the back ground, I have three of these to do on Thursday that look the same and one iron bark.Home owner just want's them back tho where they were cut off before.
I bid on this job and got it already.

If the growth is cut back to the previous spot is there any chance that the tree eventually recovers, pollard growth?. Not a hundred percent sure if thats what it's called but I think so?

Don Ross · 21st January 2009, 09:37 AM

Hello Eric,

World's Worst Arboricultural Practices by BCC Arborists.
Toowong Cemetery.

See if you disgree with me about the three marked-up photographs in the attachment all taken in the Toowong Cemetery.

Ciao Don Ross.

Ekka · 21st January 2009, 09:07 PM

Don

I had a similar case and after much HooHaa the tree was cut down and stump ground.

Very prominent, it's BCC's attempt at HABIT TREES.

Here's the thread with all the details.
More BCC hatracking

Bruce Hopf · 23rd January 2009, 04:31 AM

I have seen Trees cut like this, and I could never Figure out why, or what Purpose it was done for. Could someone here explain this to me Please. Thanks Bruce

Galbee · 23rd January 2009, 05:08 AM

An attitude of my father done it like this so why should i do it any different, a lack of correct training, total ignorance and an uncaring attitude towards tree care, all of the above apply bruce

TreeCo · 23rd January 2009, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Hopf

I have seen Trees cut like this, and I could never Figure out why, or what Purpose it was done for. Could someone here explain this to me Please. Thanks Bruce

There is no purpose.

The tree company does it for money.....ususally with a good dose of ignorance.

The tree owner does it out of ignorance.

boreality · 13th January 2010, 01:00 AM

What's wrong with topping? It's so highly visible and causes everyone on the block to want their trees to look like this = easy to promote. Proper pruning just looks good, not even noticable = hard to market.

AWF · 2nd February 2010, 02:11 PM

If you don't know how to market proper pruning practices and explain the advantages and disadvantages to your clients then you are in the wrong game mate. It will catch up with you one day.

Ekka · 2nd February 2010, 02:34 PM

Boreality is pulling ya leg, just humour.

AWF · 2nd February 2010, 02:38 PM

No worries...

Unfortunetely it isn't the first time someone in the industry has said that exact same thing to me and probably won't be the last...

My apologies...

Ekka · 2nd February 2010, 02:42 PM

Around these parts 90% of pruning quotes start like that, errr, "I'd like it about half the size" or "just the top 1/3 off thanks"

AWF · 2nd February 2010, 02:47 PM

Yeh.. and then you spend the next hour trying to explain to the client best practices and Australian Standards only to be told later they have decided to go with 'someone' else!!

View Poll Results: Is this pruning to AS4373 (target cuts)?
Yes	4	8.16%
No	45	91.84%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

11th November 2008, 09:59 PM	#31
OutofMytree Former Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Perth Posts: 345	Re: Exposing another shame file Guy, you know I have been a voice of moderation in the past. So it should be a wake up call for you when I say that I have seen nothing in this thread which is bad for our industry or this forum. I respect and appreciate your arboriculture knowledge, but I must say that in this instance Eric is clearly right. Good news does not sell. Buy a newspaper or watch the news and count the good vs bad news stories. 1:5 if your lucky, but more like 1:10. It essential that we as arborists show the general public EXACTLY what is right and wrong in the care of trees. Otherwise we are no different to people who stand back allow crimes to occur without intervention. I could not watch a bag-snatcher knock down an old lady for her handbag, nor will I allow a chainsaw cowboy to mutilate trees and call it arbor work. I doubt that you would allow it to pass either. As for good news. We daily see posts of quality work done by forum members. If you particularly want to see pictures of good work done by other arborists then you are free to start a thread with examples of your own. Who knows, maybe there will be others who will contribute to that thread and we may achieve the balance you seem to be looking for.

12th November 2008, 08:26 AM	#32
TreeDimensional Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 447	Re: Exposing another shame file The reality of tree work is "if you do a good job for a client, they will tell a friend; if you do a bad job, they will tell anyone who will listen". It only goes to reason that it is easier to find glaring abortion like the picture Ekka posted. The question asked was, Does this conform to the Oz standard? I would think that treeseer, of all people, would like to put guys like the one that did that ? pruning, out of business.

12th November 2008, 09:30 AM	#34
Knotahippie Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bay Area Ca. Posts: 367	Re: Exposing another shame file I like Seer's idea... Let's thread about some legends. I don't care if they knock doors or work for some lab. As for me, when See'r talks I listen good. Then I do my homework. If I remember correctly he was the first BCMA in the US... Dude's a Legend.

12th November 2008, 09:41 AM	#36
Knotahippie Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bay Area Ca. Posts: 367	Re: Exposing another shame file Not surprised that I mention it? What do you mean?

12th November 2008, 08:28 PM	#40
OutofMytree Former Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Perth Posts: 345	Re: Exposing another shame file Good idea Trev. I'm always keen to show off my godly arbor skills..... Of course I would need some work in order to do that

20th November 2008, 04:12 PM	#42
OutofMytree Former Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Perth Posts: 345	Re: Exposing another shame file Sigh....

20th November 2008, 09:37 PM	#44
gids Sappling Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: mildura Posts: 11	Re: Exposing another shame file This photo is at Rufus River/Lake Victoria, Not sure what council it is something to do with SA Water. The other 2 are at Pooncarie country NSW. Both could be under the Wentworth Shire Council. council@wentworth.nsw.gov.au Wentworth Shire Council

21st November 2008, 02:06 AM	#45
OutofMytree Former Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Perth Posts: 345	Re: Exposing another shame file Thanks for the link Gids. This is what I sent. Dear Sir/Madam, I am seeking information as to the pruning of trees on what may be land under your council’s control. I include this link to Exposing another shame file - Page 2 - Tree World at an online forum for arborists worldwide, where pictures of these trees have been posted. I am sure you believe, as do I, that public safety is of the utmost importance. So preventing actions which may well lead to injury, property damage or even death is top priority. With this in mind I would appreciate a prompt response confirming the location of the trees pictured and who is responsible for this clear breach of Australian arbor standards. On a similar note, could you please forward a copy of the criteria your council uses to select arborists for work on your property. Best Regards, John Holliday Jim's Trees Dianella Mob: 0418 28 99 88 ABN 57 093 877 493 Yes, we do return phone calls! Yes, our advice is free! Yes, we can make your problem disappear! Yes, we have access to more than $10 MILLION of state of the art equipment! C'mon people. Send em an email.

19th January 2009, 12:06 AM	#47
treevet Monument Status Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Posts: 2,373	Re: Exposing another shame file Looks like he got banned TF.

19th January 2009, 12:40 AM	#48
treefeller Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: aaa Posts: 243	Re: Exposing another shame file Fair enough __________________ TreeZines Free Article and Deep Link Directory

20th January 2009, 09:42 PM	#49
Q.Q. Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Western QLD. Australia Posts: 303	Re: Exposing another shame file Hmm I need some advice on stuff like this?. PLEASE. To Ekka's post about the Euc in the back ground, I have three of these to do on Thursday that look the same and one iron bark.Home owner just want's them back tho where they were cut off before. I bid on this job and got it already. If the growth is cut back to the previous spot is there any chance that the tree eventually recovers, pollard growth?. Not a hundred percent sure if thats what it's called but I think so? __________________ Q,Q's Tree & Garden Maintenance FAMILARITY BREEDS CONTEMPT

21st January 2009, 09:07 PM	#51
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,788	Re: Exposing another shame file Don I had a similar case and after much HooHaa the tree was cut down and stump ground. Very prominent, it's BCC's attempt at HABIT TREES. Here's the thread with all the details. More BCC hatracking __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist

23rd January 2009, 04:31 AM	#52
Bruce Hopf Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North of Sebringville, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,052	Re: Exposing another shame file I have seen Trees cut like this, and I could never Figure out why, or what Purpose it was done for. Could someone here explain this to me Please. Thanks Bruce __________________ McCulloch chain saws 1- Pro Mac 60, 1- Pro Mac 700, 2- Mac 10-10 Automatic's, 2- Mini Mac 30's, 2- Mac 110's, 2- Mini Mac 35's, 1- Mac 140 with Automatic Chain Sharpener, 1- Pro Mac 10-10, 1- Mac Cat, 2- Eager Beaver 2.0's, 1- Mac 1-10 Stihl chain saws 2- 044's, 2- 034's, 2- 024's, 1- 064, 1- 084, Strunk chain saws 1- Busy Beaver, 1- SpeeDemon Special Stand Back, I Have A Very Extreme Case of CAD (Chain Saw Addiction Disorder).

23rd January 2009, 05:08 AM	#53
Galbee Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,187	Re: Exposing another shame file An attitude of my father done it like this so why should i do it any different, a lack of correct training, total ignorance and an uncaring attitude towards tree care, all of the above apply bruce __________________ In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king

13th January 2010, 01:00 AM	#55
boreality Sappling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 41	Re: Exposing another shame file What's wrong with topping? It's so highly visible and causes everyone on the block to want their trees to look like this = easy to promote. Proper pruning just looks good, not even noticable = hard to market.

2nd February 2010, 02:11 PM	#56
AWF Sappling Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 20	Re: Exposing another shame file If you don't know how to market proper pruning practices and explain the advantages and disadvantages to your clients then you are in the wrong game mate. It will catch up with you one day.

2nd February 2010, 02:34 PM	#57
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,788	Re: Exposing another shame file Boreality is pulling ya leg, just humour. __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist

2nd February 2010, 02:38 PM	#58
AWF Sappling Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 20	Re: Exposing another shame file No worries... Unfortunetely it isn't the first time someone in the industry has said that exact same thing to me and probably won't be the last... My apologies...

2nd February 2010, 02:42 PM	#59
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,788	Re: Exposing another shame file Around these parts 90% of pruning quotes start like that, errr, "I'd like it about half the size" or "just the top 1/3 off thanks" __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist

2nd February 2010, 02:47 PM	#60
AWF Sappling Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 20	Re: Exposing another shame file Yeh.. and then you spend the next hour trying to explain to the client best practices and Australian Standards only to be told later they have decided to go with 'someone' else!!

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