estimate forms

Mannix

Hi all,

I am just starting a part time tree service. I was wondering if anyone knows where to find a good estimate form customized for tree service.

Thank you in advance!

Tim

Pro Nemus

Good luck in your new venture!

I have found that it is much easier to either use generic two-part forms found at any office supply store (they can customize with your company name if you wish) or to make your own on Microsoft Word.

If you make your own, but would like to have them printed as 2-part forms, then many printers (even the ones at Staples or Office Depot) will take your file and make carbonless 2-part forms for a reasonable fee.

TREEMONKEY

I had A basic 3 sheet estimate sheet made up very gereric but a lot of room to write.
I like 3 sheets one for the original estimate, 2nd for if you do the job as a receipt says paid, 3rd your copy.

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Mannix

Thanks af7850 and Treemonkey. I will try to make one up on microsoft word. I have seen many forms for other trades on nebs.com such as heating and plumbing forms. I was hoping to find an existing form already made up for tree service. That would prevent me from re-inventing the wheel.

I was also wondering if you guys use any type of disclosure forms for damage to lawns or even septic systems if a job requires you to drive in a customers lawn or yard.

Thank you,

Tim

Pro Nemus

Sure do. I'll be happy to share, but under one condition. You must be willing to have an attorney review it before using. I cannot stress how important this is, as parts the content I use here may be ineffective or even illegal where you live.

Haha, just read what I wrote and it sounds like a sale of illicit goods.

All I'm saying is that different states have different regulations regarding "consumer protection" etc., and you're better off not using an agreement than using one that does not adhere to and work with the laws of your state.

TREEMONKEY

I do not drive over septic systems (never know what is already wrong) no matter what if you have a form signed and they still drag you to court and you say i know i should not drive across the septic thats why i had them sign a form. You will probably be held negligent anyways.

If my Customers want to save money and i can free fall and destroy their yard I use a verbal agreement but warn them it will not be pretty. IF they take my original price I rope everything or leave the branches at the bottom of the tree for cushioning. works well for controlled throws.

I leave the yard nicer then when i got their.

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Mannix

Thank you for the advice.

I am not sure what the rules and regulations of New York are, but I figured that if a customer wants you to drive across their back yard it may be a good idea to draw a picture and map out exactly where the customer would like you to drive in. Also have them understand and sign, that I am not responsible ruts or for tearing the grass up a little. If they send me across their leach field I have it in writing they directed me to drive that way. I certainly would not drive across the leachfield on purpose, most of the time we may not know where it is. If nothing else it might make them aware that if you drive a 33000 lb truck through the yard it will do some damage.

Af7850, I would like to see your form. I wont use it word for word, maybe it would give me some ideas and I could customize it some. i will have my attorney look it over. Would you be able to post it here or do you want my email?

Treemonkey, that is good practice to leave the yard nicer than it was. If you leave ruts, do you repair them?

Thanks for the help!

Tim

TREEMONKEY

ya i will fix ruts if they are permanent i will top soil and seed but i do not have a bucket and drag the brush to the chipper unless it is a huge yard i try to stay off the yard a lot of people here have in ground sprinklers.

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Pro Nemus

Hi, sorry I haven't been here in a few days; my computer has been in the shop. I'm not sure what is "politically correct" here - is it okay to post in the thread or should I send it via email? It doesn't much matter to me either way.

Mannix

Hi,

I am glad you got your computer fixed. Well if you want to email me the form my email is...Tim_b832@yahoo.com

Thank you!

JohN Dee

It comes down to your own preference Pro Nemus. If you arn't worried about your opposition using it against you then do it. But if so, keep it on the hush and just email it.

But I am curious to see it though. I have my own forms written/designed, but would like to see if I can improve on the aspects of it by taking a looksey at your form from across the world.

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We are what we repeatedly do... Excellence then, is not an act, but HABIT...

Red : Green : Blue

Pro Nemus

I really believe that my advantage over my competition is not based in contract terms, or in advertising materials. I'd like to believe that my advantage is because of things which are truly unique in myself and my company, that cannot be easily replicated.

Also, you know that we are all better off when we work together. Hell, the contract I use was built from the ideas shared by several other people in the industry. That said, if any of the original authors who were so generous to post their contracts to help me out happen to recognize their work, please be compelled to reply so that I might thank you publicly.

RELEASE, ACCOUNT AGREEMENT AND PERSONAL GUARANTEE TERMS AND CONDITIONS:

CUSTOMER certifies that he/she is either the owner, homeowner, corporate officer and/or other agent authorized to enter into this release, account agreement and personal guarantee [the AGREEMENT] with LORAX & CO, LLC for the completion of exactly and only the work detailed on the other side of this paper [the WORK] and intending to be legally bound, agrees to the following:

CUSTOMER agrees to use the services of LORAX & CO, LLC, in strict COMPLIANCE WITH ALL APPLICABLE RULES, LAWS, REGULATIONS, and ORDERS.

CUSTOMER agrees that LORAX & CO, LLC may provide services on the date of its choosing, so long as said date is within 60 days of the Acceptance Date.

CUSTOMER agrees that credit will not be extended and payment is due when WORK is completed in a way that would satisfy a reasonable person. If payment is not received at that time, CUSTOMER agrees to pay monthly late fees totaling 10% of the delinquent principal amount.

CUSTOMER, in the event of cancellation of this AGREEMENT, agrees to pay a 20% cancellation fee, based on the total charges of any cancelled services.

CUSTOMER, in the event of default of this AGREEMENT, agrees to reimburse LORAX & CO, LLC for all expenses, including reasonable collections fees (either by a collection agent or attorney) at the agreed reasonable rate of 35% of the delinquent principal amount.

CUSTOMER agrees that in addition to binding to the terms and conditions of this AGREEMENT that he/she also provides a PERSONAL GUARANTEE to the terms of this AGREEMENT (including payment of principal, interest, and collections fees) which shall in addition be binding to any corporate, partnership, and or trade name entity stated herein.

CUSTOMER agrees that no employee or agent of LORAX & CO, LLC is authorized to mitigate disputes between neighbors.

CUSTOMER agrees that CUSTOMER is responsible for designating property boundaries and underground installations (such as pipes, cables, wires, irrigation systems and septic systems), and is responsible for any costs that arise from errors or omissions in such designation.

CUSTOMER understands that during the course of the WORK lawn, soil, earth, plants and/or other property fixtures may be damaged, and unless otherwise mutually agreed in writing, no compensation, replacement, or guarantee will be provided for such damaged items.

CUSTOMER understands that Additional costs may be incurred if metal or concrete are found which result in damage to stump grinders, chain saws, or chain saw bars or chains.

CUSTOMER understands that the safety and or lifespan of a tree cannot be determined with perfect accuracy, and therefore any statement about a tree or plant by any employee or agent of LORAX & CO, LLC is a best estimate and not a guarantee.

CUSTOMER agrees that except as otherwise mutually agreed in writing, this document is the COMPLETE AGREEMENT of the parties and supersedes all other agreement(s) or understandings, written, oral, or otherwise.

Eric Frei

Just to throw a spanner in the works I thought I'd introduce this concept.


I see mine as a marketing tool, no way would I plaster anything like that on it. Many laws and rules exist anyway, half that stuff is common law and normal trade, you dont need it.

This is shocker, if I read it mate, no offence but I'd be thinking you guys be hacks.

It spells, we can smash what we like unless you get it in writing ... why have that? Do you smash a lot of stuff?

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Therrin

Hmm... how many days notice do you give them of they day that you decide, on your own, to show up? Say it's little Johnny's birthday, do they just put up with all the commotion outside?

Moreso, considering your strict payment plan, consideration should be given to how long it might take the customer to put the money together. Things come up. You just ring them up and say, "we'll be there day after tomorow" and then they must fit it in nomatter what they have planned?

Okay, what satisfies a reasonable person? And who is this reasonable person? Is that cash/check/ credit card or what? Can't you say that?
So 10% late fee is assessed up front and they have a month to pay the rest off.. that's actually pretty reasonable. Might even be worth it to them to put you off. How long can the be delinquent before defaulting on their contract?

I don't know how things go over there, but here... If you make a deal with a corporation, the INDIVIDUAL is NOT going to give you a personal guarantee. The Corp. is an entity seperate part and parcel of the employees of that Corp. This is done for a reason. It's legal seperation, which provides personal protection in the event the Corp is sued or brought suit against.

You hire a pest control... they come, they spray. You have ants a couple days later, you gonna sue the company he works for, AND the guy? Hell no, thats why the company is there, you sue the company. (or whatever action is appropriate). He's not guaranteeing you anything as his own person.

In that case, make sure that you and your employees don't find yourself in the situation of mitigating, and then turn around and say "that isn't official, I never said that" later on, just to cover yourself.

From what I know of the Arbs I've talked to, and seen on here, many of them value their clients, and their reputation enough that THEY will make the necessary calls to make certain that every opportunity has been made to ensure that these things aren't going to be a problem.
Sure, things happen, but how can you just say "screw it, you do it, I'm just not gonna be bothered with it, I don't have the time for it, I'm not interested..."
I wouldn't be surpised if many h.o.'s found it a daunting task just to call all of those people.
If you already have the numbers on hand, wouldn't it show a degree of professionalism to help them out with it?

HACK PROTECTION CLAUSE!!!!!
This is absurd!! This says "we drop a tree on your house....ooops"
"We show up and see you've got a nice garden, a gazebo, some fences, and that working around it all will take six hours... screw it, we can drop shit everywhere and be done in 2, your loss"

This is absurd! You don't even hardly need insurance if you can get someone to agree to this!

Say it's a piece of plastic? A rock the h.o. placed? Tree swallowed a nail years before the h.o. bought the property, but Lo and behold! You hit it going through the trunk and your chain snaps... you just tack that on as an extra charge to the h.o.? WTF?
Groundie looks at it and says "aww, i can cut through that..." ruins a bar/chain in the process, and thinks "heck, we'll just charge the guy for it, he won't know the difference"

Sounds kinda contradictory. So, if there's an ammendment it must be in writing... but then, too bad, because the Agreement supercedes anything in writing, doesn't it?
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This is a classic example of tricking people into getting lost with the fine print, getting them to sign it and saying "oh it's all the basic stuff, don't worry" (which, incidentally, is an oral statement that the contract supercedes) So your word basically means jack.

If you put this contract in front of me, not only would I rip it up, but I'd order you off of my property in addition to telling anyone who would listen that you're running a scam operation.

Just my $ 0.02

Ya gotta have some human element in this stuff. You try to cover everything, which just leads to leaving things out, and making it come off wrong. Almost sounds like you're right here in Los Angeles =)

Eric Frei

Yes, good point on this one Therrin.

I think just drop the reasonable person part totally.

Now charging monthly late fees of 10% on the outstanding amount would be illegal here. You see, there's laws here in this area, lots of them. There's caps on rates, fees and you'd have to satisfy some sort of credit code. Below is a link.

Fair Trading Qld - Credit - Payday lenders

Now I'll tell you something, I used to debt collect.

There's two types of debtors.

Those who cant pay and those who wont pay.

And if you dont know which of those two you are working for you deserve to lose your money.

In the remote case you happened to work for a cant pay (they just dont have the $'s) you think you are going to actually collect more than the original amount? Ya flamin dreaming.

Most will discount the debt, better 75% or 50% of something than 100% of nothing. This is a strategy for collections officers, albeit sometimes after a mile of fees added.

However, courts can toss out fees too, it can make you look like a thief and azzhole, frankly I wouldn't do it.

The current legal system here allows for court costs etc ... the extra's are not worth it, learn to judge your customers better.

The wont pays, you need to solve the problem or sue them. The less BS on your contract especially fees and charges the better for you and the more the judge will like you.

If I were to have anything I'd have just this.

CUSTOMER agrees that credit will not be extended and payment is due immediately or prior to completion

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Pro Nemus

The customer's job is usually scheduled immediately, but it may be scheduled for a date which is 45-60 days from today. A customer cannot decide that "today just isn't good for me" after we've traveled 45 minutes with 2 gigantic gas-hogging trucks to get to their house.

If this were an installment loan or finance agreement, then the statutory limitation on financing interest would be 18% APR, or 1.5% per month. However, as this is expressly not a financed debt, we can charge late fees of whatever is agreed to in the contract, with no limitations. I called the State Attorney General's office to verify this.

Also, "satisfy a reasonably person" is a commonly-accepted principle. Substantially justified, for instance, has been defined by legal statute and precedent as "justified to a degree that would satisfy a reasonable person."
-Plum Creek Timber Co. v. Wash. State Forest Practices Appeals Bd., 99 Wn. App. 579, 595, 993 P.2d 287 (2000)

Therrin is right, generally parties incorporate to eliminate personal liability. However, if they willingly and knowingly accept personal liability, then they are legally bound just as the corporation is. I have never had anyone dispute this clause. This is mostly put in place for the landscapers who do not feel that paying us is as important as paying the bar tab, and customers who hire us through their companies to do work on their personal property.

I assure you that this simply does not happen.

We actually do all of this ourselves (or call Miss-Dig), and the work order contains a map illustrating everything we can locate. The customer signs the work order verifying the accuracy of our findings. This clause only places the final responsibility on the homeowner instead of ourselves.

We have had several incidents in the past. All were relatively minor, and we took care of all of them to the client's satisfaction. Furthermore, we made so certain that the customer was completely satisfied that we could ask for a testamonial afterward. Although we haven't used it, we also have stellar insurance coverage.

This clause does not say that we will not repair any damages if they happen, but that we have the ability to make the call. We have had people accuse us of damage which was undoubtedly there months before we were. I bend over backwards to serve each and every client, but I will not let the less ethically bound of them take advantage of us.

Again, we are talking about the ability to charge, not the necessity. If you don't see the reason behind this, then maybe you haven't yet found a tree which has been filled with 500# of concrete... Lucky you.
This clause states that only written agreements will be honored. Further, this agreement supersedes all others to date; however, a future agreement can amend this one, and past written agreements are still valid in any part where they do not conflict with this one.

Pro Nemus

The commanding majority of my clients are very well off. For instance, let me pull out my demographic info...

Grosse Pointe Shores village, MI
Median Income: $113,882
Average Earnings: $182,378
Median Home Value: $594,200

Birmingham City, MI
Median Income: $80,861
Average Earnings: $117,858
Average Home Value: $318,000

We are not talking "can't pay" people here. I suppose it would be different if I were working in areas which were more normal. However, in this economy we are most secure in working for those who have it and want to spend it.

D Mc

A lot of good points going on here. We'll throw our two cents in for what it's worth.

Our estimate form consists of our name, address and telephone number (it also includes my CA #) space for writing the estimate in detail and a note at the bottom stating how long the estimate is good for, and that payment is due upon completion and how to make out the check. That's it.

If we break something, we fix it. It would be impossible to itemize everything in a contract because the one thing you miss might be the one thing you hit. I try to go over the yard prior to work and note anything that is already broken and point it out to the client so that we all know the state of the property prior to work.

I call to confirm jobs prior to setting out, especially if it has been over 2 weeks since initial designation. That saves a wasted trip. But if we get to the job and something has come up with the client, we say no problem and change the date. Customer service and rapport is everything.

We are very fortunate in our area in that many people here are "old school". Your word is your contract. If you do what you say you will do, show up when you say you will, and do a superior job you will have a return clientelle that refers you to their neighbors and steady work.

We do realize this is not New York...and each area is different.

D and S Mc

Pro Nemus

I truly appreciate your approach. We have done it "your way" for many years more-or-less, and have only started listing really formal terms and conditions in the last 2-3 years.

I was raised to believe that all a man really has is his word. Even when other people break theirs, it is important to keep mine honorable! However, it seems that, in the past 5 years or so, the "honor system" has really taken a beating around here.

Fortunately, the good guys tend to stick together. Anyone who might ask about the terms is usually completely understanding once I talk about the circumstances which forced us to go in this direction. Usually, they are the type who are just as fed up with the "thieves" as I am; they usually look at the written agreement as proof that I am really just like them - not trying to get one over, but not wanting to be taken advantage of.