emergency tree today

polly · 15th December 2007, 01:07 PM

Hello everyone,

We have a little problem which I am wondering what to do , so thought i would write and ask you all.

Last week we were asked to come out and look at a euc. obliqua with a split from one leader into the main trunk about 75cm long, we poked a stick in and it went in a long way.

One limb goes over tree owners yard and the other leader goes right over the neighbours yard ( wish i'd taken photo's).

So my hubby removed the one over the tree owners yard( it was pretty hairy as it kept moving). Anyway he started up the second leader and heard a big 'Crack'. So of course he came down. I brought up some of the bigger pulleys from the yard and he secured it with three ropes.It is secured onto a neighbouring obliqua which is disguised as an ivy tree. We then had to leave it as the wind really picked up and way too dangerous to continue.

He has told the neighbours to remove all valuables from the yard and I have informed the tree owner he will do his best to get it down safely without damaging anything ( or killing himself, I did'nt tell them that though it's not good to make the customer nervous).

I have also told them if it does go we cannot be responsible for the damage. We are fully insured/qualified and experienced but surely that is not our fault if by the time we do the work the tree is about to fall. Or are we?

We've done alot of emergency trees but not one this badm maybe I should get them too sign a peice of paper. I am a bit worried they will sue us or something if it does fall.( hopefully not with my hubby in there) There is no access so we cannot get in a tower, climbing is the only way to get it down.

I would appreciate any advice you may be able to give me.

Thanks

Polly.

Ekka · 15th December 2007, 02:21 PM

Tough case, it will be the insurance companies that fight it not you, worry not, go about your work in the best and safest way possible.

As long as your conscience is clear that you have done all that is reasonable you'll be fine.

I can say I have walked from situations where fallen or dead trees have targets beneath that may get damaged further from doing the tree work. In one instance the insurance assessor for a fallen tree stated any further damage to property during the course of removal would be claimed against us ... I walked.

Here's the problem, you do nothing the tree fails and insurance covers it.

You do something and the tree fails they want to blame it on you and take your insurance company.

Each case on it's own merits, each customer to be aware of it.

Sometimes I have quoted the drop price and written on the quote that we aren't responsible for any damage to stuff other than buildings ... so pound the garden. Life over limb I say.

polly · 15th December 2007, 02:39 PM

Thanks EKKA,

we are doing this job this morning, nice and still, no wind.

That's right, if we do nothing the tree will fall, and there garden, shed etc will be damaged anyway.

My hubby is just going to quickly and safely try and get the weight off, its just the ivytree/neighbouring obliqua does'nt look too stable either but there was no other place to secure it.

That sucks when you are half way through a job and you find out there are unseen faults.

Maybe next time I should write up an affidavit saying we will try and get it down but seeing the tree is this dangerous we cannot claim responsibilty if damage is caused.
It's a hard one,

Polly

shaggs · 19th December 2007, 12:21 PM

Polly, safety for yourself is always number one. Ekka is right, do what you can do. Doctors can save all lives, and my plumber has lots of CYA statements on his quotes saying he doesn't take responsibility for unmarked underground utilities.
If you make the HO aware of this at the start there should be a good repore throughout the job whatever happens.
Just identifying the dangerous situation and advising them the remove valuables etc is bettering a bd situation. Hope all goes well.

shaggs · 19th December 2007, 12:23 PM

Sorry people, above should have read "Doctor CANT save all lives"

JayD · 19th December 2007, 12:44 PM

Polly & Hubby,
When we take on work to a tree with previous damage to it, Or work near say a recently layed retaining wall :eg stumping out stumps we make it quite clear and make them sign off on our quote that we except no responsability to property what so ever, With your tree, and trees that we can see a definate crack/fracture in and we cant get in a cherrypicker and we dont walk which is sometimes the best option, we bind up the section with a good rope it's still scary and you still have to use good judgement but it has worked well for us.
Hope this helps& good luck.
JayD

polly · 20th December 2007, 01:01 PM

Hi Jay d and shaggs,

yes my hubby tied it up with three ropes and a pulley system on the neighbours tree then we tied a spare pole belt around the crack at the base, but it was still a bit hairy, however he managed to get it down safely!

I am definatly doing what you suggested in the future and getting them to sign the quote to say we take no responsibilty for any damage.

I hate those jobs. I never know whether to go down and watch or stay in the office and sweat it out not knowing what's going on.

Safety of our people is of course the most important, one of our employee nearly cut half his thumb off two weeks ago plastic and re-constructive surgery etc, chainsaw kicked back straight towards his face and luckily he put his hand up to stop it. You have to look on the bright side better his thumb than his face, so now he has his first war wound.

polly · 20th December 2007, 01:13 PM

Thanks for you advice also!

Polly

Ekka · 20th December 2007, 01:54 PM

Jeez, that thumb job sounds bad, happy the trees down safe.

JayD · 24th December 2007, 07:46 PM

Hi Polly,

Here's a Conifer we bound up because it was cracked at the union, John climbed this and it was sucessfully taken down in a confined space, I thought it might be of interest to you and your hubby.
All The Best
JayD

polly · 24th December 2007, 11:30 PM

cool pics, Jay'D we did one similar which was about to fall into the powerlines, tied it up etc, it went well .

The owner of the tree was an entomolgist and came out with his magnifying glass and went through all the wood before the boys chipped it ( it had termite evidence)

He found this really rare cypress termite with the queen, he was so excited it went straight to the pool room ( his collection)

cool huh?

Merry Christmas to all

Polly

Quintrex · 25th December 2007, 12:21 AM

I have done several trees split by lightning strike. We bound them together with rachet strap load binders, and once or twice used dogs and chains on the heavier sections.
This helps pull them together and feels safer when you're climbing.

polly · 25th December 2007, 01:15 AM

Hi quintrex,

we did the same thing on this tree but it was leaning on a 45 degree angle and the only thing to secure it too was a pretty rotten neighbouring obliqua.

the spilt seemed to go all the way to ground level and most of the way through the trunk, i suppose it make it much safer securing the split but if it fails at ground level it was a long way to fall and pretty much impossible to swing out the way.

I think my hubby really should have walked in this case and luck really needs to be on your side sometimes.

If you do trees like this do you get the customer to sign something saying you ca'nt take responsibility for property damage?

Polly

shaggs · 25th December 2007, 01:14 PM

G'day Polly.
Thos e truck rachet straps are the way to go. You can get them real cheap on ebay now too. They come in handy for everything and you can keep a heap of them.

The "customers signing" is a tough one. I have asked my insurance company about this and like lawyers, they said that sometimes things aren't worth the paper they are written on!!

This attitude makes it hard for us as frontline workers to differentiate which is covered and which isnt in this grey area.

If you had to do the job, quote it to take alot longer than you'd think. Constantly reasses the tree, take smaller chunks than usual and put extra protection around protected items.

There's no shame in quoting to have it done properly, or just stating its not in your field of work and walking away.

bigshea13 · 26th December 2007, 12:39 PM

ever use cobras? they are a bit pricey but they can also be used to aid in work safety.

newguy18 · 26th December 2007, 05:18 PM

I had a dead live oak once that i knew for a fact was rotten on the inside but decided it was safe to climb.I took all but the 2 main leaders off and 1 could be dropped in whole and the other had hv lines witih reach.I couldn't climb the one with hv under it and if I dropped the other the tree would have broke in half.I told the h.o That unless I could lay it across his already smashed fence[thanks to a previous wind storm].he gave me the okay and I hooked a rope on the union[both legs]and notched it out.It went over nicley and I have more buisness with him later this month.If its a bad situation flat out tell th h.o whats going on.No amount of money is worth your life.

15th December 2007, 01:07 PM	#1 (permalink)
polly former member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Adelaide Hills Posts: 74	emergency tree today Hello everyone, We have a little problem which I am wondering what to do , so thought i would write and ask you all. Last week we were asked to come out and look at a euc. obliqua with a split from one leader into the main trunk about 75cm long, we poked a stick in and it went in a long way. One limb goes over tree owners yard and the other leader goes right over the neighbours yard ( wish i'd taken photo's). So my hubby removed the one over the tree owners yard( it was pretty hairy as it kept moving). Anyway he started up the second leader and heard a big 'Crack'. So of course he came down. I brought up some of the bigger pulleys from the yard and he secured it with three ropes.It is secured onto a neighbouring obliqua which is disguised as an ivy tree. We then had to leave it as the wind really picked up and way too dangerous to continue. He has told the neighbours to remove all valuables from the yard and I have informed the tree owner he will do his best to get it down safely without damaging anything ( or killing himself, I did'nt tell them that though it's not good to make the customer nervous). I have also told them if it does go we cannot be responsible for the damage. We are fully insured/qualified and experienced but surely that is not our fault if by the time we do the work the tree is about to fall. Or are we? We've done alot of emergency trees but not one this badm maybe I should get them too sign a peice of paper. I am a bit worried they will sue us or something if it does fall.( hopefully not with my hubby in there) There is no access so we cannot get in a tower, climbing is the only way to get it down. I would appreciate any advice you may be able to give me. Thanks Polly.

15th December 2007, 02:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,916	Re: emergency tree today Tough case, it will be the insurance companies that fight it not you, worry not, go about your work in the best and safest way possible. As long as your conscience is clear that you have done all that is reasonable you'll be fine. I can say I have walked from situations where fallen or dead trees have targets beneath that may get damaged further from doing the tree work. In one instance the insurance assessor for a fallen tree stated any further damage to property during the course of removal would be claimed against us ... I walked. Here's the problem, you do nothing the tree fails and insurance covers it. You do something and the tree fails they want to blame it on you and take your insurance company. Each case on it's own merits, each customer to be aware of it. Sometimes I have quoted the drop price and written on the quote that we aren't responsible for any damage to stuff other than buildings ... so pound the garden. Life over limb I say. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

15th December 2007, 02:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
polly former member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Adelaide Hills Posts: 74	Re: emergency tree today Thanks EKKA, we are doing this job this morning, nice and still, no wind. That's right, if we do nothing the tree will fall, and there garden, shed etc will be damaged anyway. My hubby is just going to quickly and safely try and get the weight off, its just the ivytree/neighbouring obliqua does'nt look too stable either but there was no other place to secure it. That sucks when you are half way through a job and you find out there are unseen faults. Maybe next time I should write up an affidavit saying we will try and get it down but seeing the tree is this dangerous we cannot claim responsibilty if damage is caused. It's a hard one, Polly

19th December 2007, 12:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 462	Re: emergency tree today Polly, safety for yourself is always number one. Ekka is right, do what you can do. Doctors can save all lives, and my plumber has lots of CYA statements on his quotes saying he doesn't take responsibility for unmarked underground utilities. If you make the HO aware of this at the start there should be a good repore throughout the job whatever happens. Just identifying the dangerous situation and advising them the remove valuables etc is bettering a bd situation. Hope all goes well.

19th December 2007, 12:23 PM	#5 (permalink)
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 462	Re: emergency tree today Sorry people, above should have read "Doctor CANT save all lives"

19th December 2007, 12:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
JayD Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 941	Re: emergency tree today Polly & Hubby, When we take on work to a tree with previous damage to it, Or work near say a recently layed retaining wall :eg stumping out stumps we make it quite clear and make them sign off on our quote that we except no responsability to property what so ever, With your tree, and trees that we can see a definate crack/fracture in and we cant get in a cherrypicker and we dont walk which is sometimes the best option, we bind up the section with a good rope it's still scary and you still have to use good judgement but it has worked well for us. Hope this helps& good luck. JayD __________________ Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory

20th December 2007, 01:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
polly former member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Adelaide Hills Posts: 74	Re: emergency tree today Hi Jay d and shaggs, yes my hubby tied it up with three ropes and a pulley system on the neighbours tree then we tied a spare pole belt around the crack at the base, but it was still a bit hairy, however he managed to get it down safely! I am definatly doing what you suggested in the future and getting them to sign the quote to say we take no responsibilty for any damage. I hate those jobs. I never know whether to go down and watch or stay in the office and sweat it out not knowing what's going on. Safety of our people is of course the most important, one of our employee nearly cut half his thumb off two weeks ago plastic and re-constructive surgery etc, chainsaw kicked back straight towards his face and luckily he put his hand up to stop it. You have to look on the bright side better his thumb than his face, so now he has his first war wound.

20th December 2007, 01:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
polly former member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Adelaide Hills Posts: 74	Re: emergency tree today Thanks for you advice also! Polly

20th December 2007, 01:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,916	Re: emergency tree today Jeez, that thumb job sounds bad, happy the trees down safe. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

24th December 2007, 11:30 PM	#11 (permalink)
polly former member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Adelaide Hills Posts: 74	Re: emergency tree today cool pics, Jay'D we did one similar which was about to fall into the powerlines, tied it up etc, it went well . The owner of the tree was an entomolgist and came out with his magnifying glass and went through all the wood before the boys chipped it ( it had termite evidence) He found this really rare cypress termite with the queen, he was so excited it went straight to the pool room ( his collection) cool huh? Merry Christmas to all Polly

25th December 2007, 12:21 AM	#12 (permalink)
Quintrex Mature tree Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 462	Re: emergency tree today I have done several trees split by lightning strike. We bound them together with rachet strap load binders, and once or twice used dogs and chains on the heavier sections. This helps pull them together and feels safer when you're climbing. __________________ Heightmaster

25th December 2007, 01:15 AM	#13 (permalink)
polly former member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Adelaide Hills Posts: 74	Re: emergency tree today Hi quintrex, we did the same thing on this tree but it was leaning on a 45 degree angle and the only thing to secure it too was a pretty rotten neighbouring obliqua. the spilt seemed to go all the way to ground level and most of the way through the trunk, i suppose it make it much safer securing the split but if it fails at ground level it was a long way to fall and pretty much impossible to swing out the way. I think my hubby really should have walked in this case and luck really needs to be on your side sometimes. If you do trees like this do you get the customer to sign something saying you ca'nt take responsibility for property damage? Polly

25th December 2007, 01:14 PM	#14 (permalink)
shaggs Mature tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: sydney Posts: 462	Re: emergency tree today G'day Polly. Thos e truck rachet straps are the way to go. You can get them real cheap on ebay now too. They come in handy for everything and you can keep a heap of them. The "customers signing" is a tough one. I have asked my insurance company about this and like lawyers, they said that sometimes things aren't worth the paper they are written on!! This attitude makes it hard for us as frontline workers to differentiate which is covered and which isnt in this grey area. If you had to do the job, quote it to take alot longer than you'd think. Constantly reasses the tree, take smaller chunks than usual and put extra protection around protected items. There's no shame in quoting to have it done properly, or just stating its not in your field of work and walking away.

26th December 2007, 12:39 PM	#15 (permalink)
bigshea13 Mature tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: hiding Posts: 378	Re: emergency tree today ever use cobras? they are a bit pricey but they can also be used to aid in work safety.

26th December 2007, 05:18 PM	#16 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,677	Re: emergency tree today I had a dead live oak once that i knew for a fact was rotten on the inside but decided it was safe to climb.I took all but the 2 main leaders off and 1 could be dropped in whole and the other had hv lines witih reach.I couldn't climb the one with hv under it and if I dropped the other the tree would have broke in half.I told the h.o That unless I could lay it across his already smashed fence[thanks to a previous wind storm].he gave me the okay and I hooked a rope on the union[both legs]and notched it out.It went over nicley and I have more buisness with him later this month.If its a bad situation flat out tell th h.o whats going on.No amount of money is worth your life. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

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