Elm tree in trouble...

estogo

Hello all,

First post here and I have a bit of a desparate situation...

I have a great old elm in my backyard that has undergone severe trauma from an urban (therefore space is severly limited) double pool build. My neighbor's fence and mine go directly through the center of the tree (see pics) and we both had pools excavated through what is probably a major part of this trees feeder root system. (not a tree guy, sorry if I'm not using the correct terminology).

I had a well known arborist in our area come out and tell me that "this tree has a very slim chance of survival" because there are beetles already six feet up the tree and "it's not even summer yet".

The diagnosis was "saw to grade and remove dead dying elm tree".

While I'm quite sure it's "dying" (not dead) because it has a few leaves left, I feel that the tree doesn't stand much of a chance.

That being said, if you wanted to try to save the tree, would you even consider? or just resign to the death of the tree.

Any input would be appreciated...

estogo

Hmm....I have plenty of jpeg's but I can't seem to upload them....(some are 2048 x 1536)

estogo

Finally got the pics the right size....check it.

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Garry Brockley

personally i would say remove the tree now before it becomes a serious problem for both properties, the tree looks to be in decline from the pictures as your arborist said it was unlikely to survive. just interested to find out who cut the upper limbs in picture 3?

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estogo

Thanks for your response. My arborist just left me a message saying something about it being hopeless once those beetles get started and sawdust is pouring out of it.



It's a big tree and there's a pool and limited access to the back but he's quoted me $3,500 to "saw to base".

That seems pricey to me and I'm having a couple others quote (will find out other prices tonight) but the company seems well respected (not sure if I should "name names", but I will if you guys are curious. I like the idea of having what seems to be well organized pros doing the work, just seems pricey.

I just bought the house last August and the limbs cut in pic 3 were already cut.

TrevMcRev

Access & surrounding obstacles determine time taken & therefore price.

A pro will carefully rig down parts or maybe use a crane to do the job with minimum impact to the trees surroundings.

Looks like there are plenty of valuable targets around that could get damaged by using someone with a more "slapdash" approach.

Bear in mind that while a cheaper crew might also have insurance, that doesn't mean they have the ethics to make good on minor damage, giving you a "what'd ya expect for that price" or may not want to wear the $1000 excess to put a claim in either.

You usually get what you pay for.

Get 3 quotes, consider everything about their whole approach, look for all the little signs within their presentation that they make an extra effort (i don't mean sales smooze here), as it will be a good indicator that they will also put extra effort into the standard of work they will deliver.

Good luck, let us know how it pans out.

estogo

Ok, so this evening I had someone come out to bid the job. He said my 42' Water Oak....(then he paused, realizing it might not be an oak, and I told him "Elm") would be a particular challenge because of limited access.

I agree with a premium being not just on the tree size but accessability of the tree. His truck was beat up, not registered (temp tags) and had WE REMOVE TREES on the back window with stuck on letters. He was nice enough but nowhere near the professional impression I got of the previous company "Davey Tree" (I know, I named names, hope that's not a posting faux paux...).

This guy's quote was $6,300. Yowza...!

So now with some perspective, the original quote from Davey Tree is coming in at what's perceivably a bargain.

Especially considering access, which none of the previous photos illustrated. For full disclosure, I'm posting photos of the extremely limited access someone has during removal of the big, old elm.....

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letigre

davey trees is a huge company. nation wide i think. pretty sure that'd be a safe bet. based on the pictures youve provided id bid somewhere between $3000 and $4000. everythings gotta be lowered. lotta time there and your gonna need some man power to get it out. they're gonna need to be experienced and switched on at that so they dont break anything.

i reckon go for the big company. they got qualified professionals, insurance and more importantly a reputation to uphold.

Davey Tree : Expert Tree and Lawn Care Services

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sticks before chicks

Eric Frei

I disagree!

Big companies often pay their staff low wages and have turnover problems. They hide behind their marketing and suck a lot of money out of the business for that and their fat management.

I have stacks of evidence of the crap work and treatment by large companies, what about the incident with Treescapes here where they smashed the neighbours shed and wouldn't pay until I shot a video and helped the customer hammer them, that video was even showed in NZ arb college about "reputation"! What about the big businesses that top trees just to feed their machinery, have unqualified fools quoting and next to that climbing the trees? It's people who do the work not company names or profiles, I bet that guy who quoted doesn't do the work or perhaps even appear on the site again ....

The quote from the other guy was high because he doesn't want the job, he blew you off with price.

Look for a reputable local tree business, not a huge chain.... the best are those who bid the job and do the job, they are around.

Here's a start

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=houston+texas+tree+services&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3MOZA_enAU325AU325&ie=UTF-8
Sorry to sound so tough but as a good small business I hate missing out on opportunities because some-one perceives a bigger company has better staff, rubbish.

Here's another example http://www.treeworld.info/f6/plateau...ncil-8316.html and go to that companies website and see all the BS they write.

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letigre

not stepping on any toes. cant pretend i know what its like there, but the big companies here in syd do a good job and hire skilled ppl. they have to. perhaps its just the area. i agree about small businesses doing a better job(attention to detail, clean up, customer service). i work for a small to medium size company myself, but perhaps he hasnt got a good small arb company to hire and a bigger company may provide some piece of mind, provided warning signs of boganisation are noticed.ie asking for quals, insurance and experience etc.

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sticks before chicks

estogo

I certainly wasn't trying to bash smaller companies or individuals vs. big corp. in my post. My point was this particular individual set off a bunch of warning flags to me.

I've made the mistake of thinking big corps are better than smaller co's before with the pool in the pics. Super big hassle with the larger, well known corp, while a buddy of mine started his pool at the same time and went with a smaller shop that was infinitely better than my experience.

I probably should have posted the access pics sooner to reveal the real trouble with the job but I appreciate those who posted saying that’s about what they’d bid (3 – 4K) that lines up with my first bid.

Probably get a couple of more bids before final decision but I’ll keep you guys posted.

estogo

Ok, a guy from Trees Plus came out. Thought he was very professional.

Quote a little on the high side. $4800, again citing the poor accessability.

Got another guy coming out today, will advise when that quote comes in.

estogo

The $6,300 guy called me last night and said they got a better deal than expected on some equipment or something and they could offer me a new quote of $5,400...

estogo

Ok, just got another quote. Don's Tree Service, a few good reviews locally, best price so far.....


$2,500.00
Tax $206.25
Total $2,706.25

Eric Frei

$2500 USD works because the question is .... can it be done in a day?

Yes.

What is ample for an average 3 to 4 man tree crew per day?

$2500

Many 3 man crews with chipper run around $1500+ a day

Looking at that job you'd have 1 man in the tree, 1 on the ropes and preferably 2 more ground guys to cut it up and get it out of the yard and chipped. The larger wood gets trolley out, usually ply board laid on paved surface beneath tree, we use padding for chunking logs out.

The tree offers some decent lowering points where leaders can be tip tied and cut low so long sections of wood can be lowered, recut on the ground 5' long for a trolley out of there. To a pro tree crew that job isn't that bad.

Keep that in mind, do check insurance, qualifications, reputation and references for that job .... if it takes too long or they bust something you dont want them wasting your time.

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TrevMcRev

Good advice there

Oldtimer

That Davey Company did a Stump removal in my yard in Austin and I was happy with their work and the fact that they were not bugging me to pay right away in cash like some of them do. They mailed me a bill on the mail that I was able to pay on line very efficient and clean job.

I agree with most of the advise presented specially about checking their insurance since there is a lot of stuff to break in there including both pools and the fence that will have to be removed to bring the stump grinder.

Is your neigborn willing to help cover the removal cost? since the tree is in the edge of both proerties? - Ask them before the work is done in case they refuse permission to cut "their Tree". People are strange that way.

Willard Holmen

$2500 ? That must be a big city price. Your in Houston right estogo? Tree services operating out of a area of a few million or more people can probably charge what ever they want. But try those big prices in smaller rural centers, they'd be laughed out of town.
That 2 stem tree doesn't look much taller then twice the height of the house, maybe 60 feet tops?
Myself and one groundie could rig that down and haul it out in easily under 8 hrs depending on access. Thats with stump ground out too. The biggest tree I ever charged for was $1,500 and it was alot bigger then yours.
I always carry $2 million liability insurance and workers comp. Never had an accident.

knock on wood
Willard.

treeshaveneeds

I agree the tree didn't look too tall, but i'm not sure the access between the houses was wide enough for a stump grinder, and none of the pictures indicated how close the pools were to the trees, or what the access from the tree past the pool to the alleyway was like. If you don't charge a lot, it suggests your costs are lower than in bigger cities. Bottom line, the tree could have been removed a lot more cheaply before the pools went in. How come the arborist is the last professional called?

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

Willard Holmen

2 yrs ago a buddy of mine from the big city was up north here in my neck of the woods doing utility line clearnace for Manitoba Hydro. A cottage owner hired him to remove a 100 foot tall white spruce in his yard. My buddies bucket truck couldn't reach nowwhere near the top , so he quoted $1,200 to climb and block it down. The customer said go for it , then some excuses were made when the crew chickened out. The job never got done.
So my buddie told me I could have the job. When I looked at the tree it had only limbs near the top, about 24" dbh and 100ft tall. I couldn't believe my buddy charged $1,200 for it. I quoted $800 plus tax to fell it , block it up into firewood length with blocks left on site, chip and haul away the few limbs it had PLUS I did the same for a 60ft -20" poplar included in the price.
I made over $800 in one hour and 20 minutes all by myself. The owner was so happy he saved $400 plus get another tree out included. Then through his neighbors I picked up another 2 weeks of work, 14 hrs a day.
But one thing I have learned is big city arborists can't fell trees worth crap.
Willard

treeshaveneeds

You're prob right Willard, but you prob have more room to drop stuff. Most of the yards I work in are small - the tree trunk takes a significant part of the yard - and there's often hardly room for the branches - never mind felling the trunk. I'm glad you have more space, and you keep your clients happy.

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

Willard Holmen

I have to say I have nothing against big city arborists. Without them I never would have learned proper climbing procedures etc. But then I do feel like a hick from the sticks when I go into the city to do courses.
I'm glad I have some well earned tree felling experience under my belt though, keeps my customers happy when I can make a few shortcuts to save them some money. Plus time saved for me to get to the next customer.

Willard.

Willard Holmen

Here is another large poplar I did an estimate on last summer and the customer never called back. I took this picture of it this afternoon between jobs.
$1,500 for tree removed, $230 for 46" stump removed plus $86.50 GST=$1,816.50
The day before this estimate it was hit by lightening, burning down the neighbors garden shed and blowing out their television. Tree is about 60 feet [20 metres] behind houses

Willard.

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Eric Frei

Hang on a sec.

Why did the other guy quote to climb and block down when you could fell the tree?


You felled it, so in essence a lot less work and faster.

There is more to this than meets the eye.

Perhaps if your friend who quoted the $1200 quoted for both a climb and a fell he might have got the job, I don't know but I do know that just about everyone looks for the drop. Dropping a straight tree is much easier than a multi-leadered spreading tree.

As far as city workers vs country workers, it's all opinion but in my personal experience the country workers are a lot rougher and take more risk.

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Willard Holmen

With this 100 ft [30 metre] tall spruce job there was only a space of less then 25 ft[7 metres] wide, 100ft from the stump to lay the tree into. My city friend didn't have the confidence to fell it. Plus him and his guys lost their nerve to climb it. So they offered the job to me.
These guys are used to removing decurrent hardwoods in the city not 100ft tall excurrent forest trees. They thought it was 150 ft tall but with a stick and pacing back to the stump I figured out it was only 100ft and just enough room to fell it safely.
I would have climbed it and blocked it down for $1200 but I found it easier to fell it with alot less effort because I have the felling experience and confidence. So for a bonus I gave the customer an extra smaller tree included for $800 and I did it alone with cleanup leaving the blocks behind in under 1 1/2 hr.
The neighbors saw this "Great deal" through the moccasin telegragh and I made thousands of more dollars.
Most country tree workers were or are loggers and have valuable felling experience in both excurrent and decurrent trees which is a bonus to have especially when he knows the "stick trick" to measure the trees height so he knows where to put it down. Plus most country guys have a stronger work ethic and can get the job done with fewer guys, if not by themselves.
Willard.

Eric Frei

They're the sort of drops you should video.

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treeshaveneeds

I agree Willard.

And there is certainly no reason to feel like a hick from the sticks when taking courses. You have your strengths, they have theirs.

I bet that customer wished he had taken down the tree for your price; the damage it caused and bad feelings from the neighbour -- prevention is almost always cheaper.

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

Willard Holmen

Good words of wisdom Brent, thanks
You have to re- read my last post Brent. I got the spruce job and finished it. There was no damage done, and the neighbors of the spruce customer gave me lots of work from what they saw from me doing the first job. Best form of advertising, do a good job and work will follow.

Willard.

treeshaveneeds

That is the best kind of advertising. Works well.


I was referring to the Poplar estimate, not the spruce job.

__________________
My business: Tree Pruning and Removals -- Strump Removals -- Advice -- Consulting -- Arborist Reports
If you want an honest opinion, call Brent Ferris...because, Trees want to Live Too !
We do great jobs, even in small yards.

Free Estimates Oakville to Oshawa - North to Bradford (Will travel further if cost of travelling covered)

Willard Holmen

Ok gotcha. Yeah the big poplar is still standing. The neighbor twice asked me on the street "when are you taking down that dangerous tree?" I just say "the owner hasn't replied to my estimate yet."
I do save alot of costs here in my small town. Being the "tree guy", if I need a tree's crown reduced away from power lines I call the power company and they send 2 linesmen with a bucket truck and hydraulic polesaw. They cut it down for me to almost the stump and leave me a pile of brush and blocks. There is no charge for this service, they are just happy the tree is going away and less for them to worry about for their lines.
I don't have to worry about working around big utility lines, I just call them and they do it with their bucket. Plus they lower service lines to a house for free too. I lower the telephone-cable line myself.
Willard.