Ekka, whats with the Blakes?

emr

I have been watching your vids for a while and I was wondering why dont you climb with an advanced friction hitch? You seem to be a very skilled climber, yet you use an out-dated friction hitch. I also noticed you climb on 1/2" climbing line not 7/16", is there a reason for this? I want to say that I have learned tons from your vids and post, so I am not busting on you, but I have to wonder why you are not keeping up with the new trends in tree climbing. Please do not take this as an insult because I have nothing but respect for you.

Eric Frei

OK

I hate 7/16 line, we dont wear gloves and that smaller harder line sucks to grip and work ... not my scene. Also the thinner line gets stuck in palm heads easier.

We predominantly do TD's so spiking and flipping is more common than prussicking up a tree.

I'm not into spliced eyes and gadgetry, more biners than you need, having two knots or two eyes of a french prussic plus the tail of my climbing line onto one biner, nah, not my scene.

I like to use climbing line for my hitches, it's readily available and cheap requiring just a knot.

I figure that many guys use this Euro idea coz they want to have a prussic that advances itself when they climb the line.

You know, it's been nearly 2 years since I used my pantin, that's how often I need to climb the line.

In global terminolgy, we're euc men and you guys seem to be more oak men. But in saying that Trev from Melbourne has 50% of his work as prunes, maybe he uses a french prussic or VT but here it's different.

I hope that answers your question.

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TREE-SURFER

Ekka, I was gonna buy 1 of those pantin's. Are they any good?

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The Aerial Arborist

Isle of Man Tree Surgeon| All Aspects of Tree Work

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Eric Frei

Sure are, you do a bit of pruning to then?

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TREE-SURFER

Yeah, mostly pruning or limbing. I normally use a footloop and an ascender with my Blakes if it's a good climb, but the pantin looks easier for an SRT. Sure beats footlockin' .

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The Aerial Arborist

Isle of Man Tree Surgeon| All Aspects of Tree Work

What experts say about TOPPING

Underwor

EMR, You would really go nuts watching me climb. I use a tautline, tied in the tail of my climbing line most of the time. For recreation, I will use a MT or occasionally a Swabish. I show my students about 10 different hitches and let them decide what they like best. Most use the Blake's. I stay with the tautline, which I learned with Davey, 40 years ago this June, because I know how it works under all sorts of conditions and I can tie it one handed, behind my back if I need to recrotch in a very tight situation. Remember, when I started I was not shown anything as fancy as a lanyard, split tail or other fancy stuff, just a lot of double crotching with the tail of the climbing line. Even started using double bowline on a bight for a saddle. A real old fart!!

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Bob Underwood, Associate Professor of Forestry
ND School of Forestry
Minot State University - Bottineau Campus
Bottineau, North Dakota

Sean Freeman

Bob, when I did my aerial rescue cert we had to show the ability to both tie and then climb and rescue another using the rope harness, have to say I admire all those who sacrificed their comfort in the struggle to develop the great harnesses we use today, after the prac in rope harness I was walking like brother colin

EMR, I climb on a VT and a simpler version french prusik that can be tied one handed. Like Ekka when I have to spike up a vertical pole I'll use a blakes or English prusik, mainly because it seems to be easier to advance with the rhythm of body thrusting. I also like to play around with my options when double crotching with whatever hitch is on my mind..really like both the icicle and schwabisch.

Sean

Eric Frei

Righto guys, here's the place for you all to show what you got.

I'm just nicking off down to the garage to take a pic of my Blakes. I use a 5 coil version.

Friction hitches for climbing lines

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emr

My reason for asking was that I have been actually going back to basics lately. I do climb SRT and use ascenders and the Pantin, which I love, but in some situations its better to keep it simple. One huge switch back for me was going to a floating bridge saddle. Im on the Glide now, but it is basically the floating Ds that I learned on and my still climb on. I wanted some insight on the over-looked benefits of your system. Thanks

Marc

Hi emr, o.k one thing i'd like to ask is why are french prussiks and the like called advanced hitches? they are not more advanced just new, I think we can be mislead by that term.

I like either a blakes or VT, the beauty of a blakes or similar is you can adjust the bridge so you can make it longer which is better for footlocking or thrusting up the tree.

Climbing with a so called advanced hitch will not advance your climbing, but i do reccomend playing with as many types of hitch as you can to find what makes your climbing more effcient and easier.

I've worked with dozens of climbers with over 10 year experience each, no one system stands out, some use an english prussik, some use a blakes others use a variation of french prussik others use a lockjack.

Some of us find a system and stick with it, it does'nt mean to say we/they are stagnant and not keeping up with modern techniques. Me I love to play, i love all the toys and different hitches.

I have all the latest modern kit, and use modern techniques, but i still get shown by guys climbing on a tautline using both ends of there rope, climbing in fixed point harnesses.

Eric Frei

Marc

Many times people say to me ... "oh, you dont have a spliced eye in your climbing line, you don't have a spliced eye in your split tail" etc

They think I'm a little backward or dont know about the huge benefits of splices and prefer some big assed fishermans knot on my biner.

Fact is I dont like spliced ropes as described above.

Why?

Many times I clean palms and I need to cinch right up to the biner and only the bridge of the split tail is holding me. Try that with a spliced rope ... it slips on the taper of the splice. Same when I shorten the bridge, the taper of the splice means the Blakes doesn't work as well.

Just the other day Jim asked how I pull out the Rope Guide as the climbing line wasn't spliced. I said easy, just before you take the head out you undo it while your there. Hang it on your saddle and bomb the head out.

But I do have the retrieval ball on a short throwline and can tie that to the end of the climbing line ... no real biggy.

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l2edneck

Not that im even in yalls league but use a taught with four coils.Mainly because thats the way i was taught and am stubborn.

I like havin a big knot makes me feel safer for some reason.Also probably because its cheap and i dont like to take more than i need due to weight and just the more you got hooked to to you seems like more stuff to get hung up.


Once again just my opinion.

Eric Frei

Cheap is good.

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Marc

Another reason I do'nt use splices for my hitch cord (unless I could do them myself) A spliced length of tenex costs 10-15 quid an un-spliced length is ?2, plus with tying a fishermans you can adjust it to your prefered length, it cinches tighter to the biner, and the buried end does'nt interfer with the hitch.

I bought 6.5m of xtc to make my blakes htiches, it cost the same as 1 splced length and i can make upto 5 blakes with it, yes the fishermans knot is a little chunky, but if the end of your climbing line is spliced its no biggie.

Makes good sense to me.

Different stroke for different folks.

George Hayduke

Eric,

You need to study history more. The idea for a split tail originated in Australia many years ago.

Using a Pantin makes really good sense a lot of the time. It's much easier most of the time to ascend a rope then put on spikes instead of spiking all of the way up.

JohN Dee

It's easier in the short term, but how long will it take for you to become complacent? The beauty of going up a tree DdRT rather then SRT is you slow down and are able to visually inspect the tree for defects as you are climbing - rather then speeding up a line being completely oblivious to a defect that could take your life.

Now I'm not telling you to spike up your prune's or that pantin's shouldn't be used, but I'm just saying fast and easy isn't always good for you.

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George Hayduke

What??? that logic doesn't make a bit of sense!!!

Here's another way to apply your logic. If you walk to work you'll be much more aware of the driver who is about to run the red light and plow into your car. That makes walking safer.

Maybe you could just drive a little slower and become a proper defensive driver.

Any of my vehicles...except the chip truck...is capable of going over 90 MPH. Do I drive that fast? NO!

Do you think that using SRT makes me climb so fast that I don't take time to look at the tree? I'm just ol' Hayduke not Spiderman

There is little 'beauty' in using DdRT to access the crown of a tree compared to the easy of SRT. Years from now your body will complain about the hard use from hard climbing. I;ll be working still...

Open your mind to the ease of SRT. There are more people ascending SRT in the rope world that the way that arbos do. For simple ascent SRT is the best way no discussion.

JohN Dee

Now you obviously didn't completely read my post.

The main factor was complacancy! If you're driving down the road and you see that orange light, many people's instinct is to speed up and make it? Thus the ease of just speeding up to try and make it, which makes you complacant when driving.

I'm not ragging on SRT, but more and more of the new/young arbo's out there are starting to use it and more and more are becoming complacent because they have the fast and easy option of speeding up that line.

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We are what we repeatedly do... Excellence then, is not an act, but HABIT...

Red : Green : Blue

JohN Dee

Think: If we all had the same opinions and views, we'd all be driving the one car, using the one chipper and wearing the one harness.

Anyways we're way off topic.

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We are what we repeatedly do... Excellence then, is not an act, but HABIT...

Red : Green : Blue

George Hayduke

The speed and ease of the ascent has nothing to do with complacency. They are two diffent issues. If a climber is taught to do an inspection all of the time they will do that no matter how fast they move in the tree. There is no way that you can tie the two issues together.

If a climber uses less energy to ascend they have more energy to work. That savings can come from changing from a tautline to a Blakes or even adding a slack tender to any hitch. Too many climbers are stuck using the same techniques that they learned during their first month on a job. Now, after XX years they claim that they've been climbing for XX years with pride. No...they've been climbing for XX months over and over.

If you think that SRT allows someone to speed into the tree so fast taht a crown inspection can't be done you have no clue about climbing. Since I'm using less energy, and time, to ascend SRT than you I have much more time to casually do an inspection. I'll meet you at the top!

Eric Frei

Can we see some videos of SRT canopy ascent using gear like pantins?

I spike coz I seldom prune.

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DRANO

hello bob,you say you learned from davey 40 years ago!!well i'm a foreman 5th year with them my little brother is my boss!!he's at 17 year's.just sayin hey,i,m still learnin.. DUANE A.KA. DRANO

Eric Frei

How big's this Davey company?

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newguy18

they're nation wide here.I heard that they do strictly government work and right of ways.maybe someone could confirm this?

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old schooler

dannyboysfc

Davey is nation wide in the US and I think parts of Canada as well. We gotta be close to the largest company there is. As far as I know there are kinda like 3 divisions of Davey:

Davey Tree Expert Company, which is like the parent company; they do mostly residential and commercial tree work and some districts do landscaping and lawn care stuff as well. I believe a few utility and government contratcs as well;

Davey Tree Surgery Company which does pretty much just utility trimming in the Western US for the various power companies;

Davey Resource Group which is kinda like a consulting firm for things related to trees and landscape.

I work for the Davey Tree Expert Co. in San Jose, CA we do Residential and commercial tree work.

newguy18

okay thanks so you guys work kinda like everybodys favorite hacks[asplunduh].i saw them topping trees last week and yelled out the car window at them.HACKS.

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old schooler

dannyboysfc

Did you read the post? we do top quality tree work for residential(that means homeowners) and comercial(that means like parking lots and landscape around commercial buildings).

newguy18

i wasn't insulting you or davey I know you guys do good work.i was saying your company was branched of in three groups like asplunduh.I was calling them hacks the only thing that asplunduh is good for is removals.

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bigshea13

down little fella! im headed to washington state next thursday to work for the big orange. ill make shure i carry a slingshot and a bag of peanuts for guys like you.

dannyboysfc