Ekka, whats with the Blakes?

emr · 30th March 2007, 07:21 PM

I have been watching your vids for a while and I was wondering why dont you climb with an advanced friction hitch? You seem to be a very skilled climber, yet you use an out-dated friction hitch. I also noticed you climb on 1/2" climbing line not 7/16", is there a reason for this? I want to say that I have learned tons from your vids and post, so I am not busting on you, but I have to wonder why you are not keeping up with the new trends in tree climbing. Please do not take this as an insult because I have nothing but respect for you.

Ekka · 30th March 2007, 09:36 PM

OK

I hate 7/16 line, we dont wear gloves and that smaller harder line sucks to grip and work ... not my scene. Also the thinner line gets stuck in palm heads easier.

We predominantly do TD's so spiking and flipping is more common than prussicking up a tree.

I'm not into spliced eyes and gadgetry, more biners than you need, having two knots or two eyes of a french prussic plus the tail of my climbing line onto one biner, nah, not my scene.

I like to use climbing line for my hitches, it's readily available and cheap requiring just a knot.

I figure that many guys use this Euro idea coz they want to have a prussic that advances itself when they climb the line.

You know, it's been nearly 2 years since I used my pantin, that's how often I need to climb the line.

In global terminolgy, we're euc men and you guys seem to be more oak men. But in saying that Trev from Melbourne has 50% of his work as prunes, maybe he uses a french prussic or VT but here it's different.

I hope that answers your question.

TREE-SURFER · 31st March 2007, 09:38 AM

Ekka, I was gonna buy 1 of those pantin's. Are they any good?

Ekka · 31st March 2007, 01:56 PM

Sure are, you do a bit of pruning to then?

TREE-SURFER · 31st March 2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Sure are, you do a bit of pruning to then?

Yeah, mostly pruning or limbing. I normally use a footloop and an ascender with my Blakes if it's a good climb, but the pantin looks easier for an SRT. Sure beats footlockin' .

Underwor · 31st March 2007, 04:38 PM

EMR, You would really go nuts watching me climb. I use a tautline, tied in the tail of my climbing line most of the time. For recreation, I will use a MT or occasionally a Swabish. I show my students about 10 different hitches and let them decide what they like best. Most use the Blake's. I stay with the tautline, which I learned with Davey, 40 years ago this June, because I know how it works under all sorts of conditions and I can tie it one handed, behind my back if I need to recrotch in a very tight situation. Remember, when I started I was not shown anything as fancy as a lanyard, split tail or other fancy stuff, just a lot of double crotching with the tail of the climbing line. Even started using double bowline on a bight for a saddle. A real old fart!!

Sean Freeman · 31st March 2007, 06:48 PM

Bob, when I did my aerial rescue cert we had to show the ability to both tie and then climb and rescue another using the rope harness, have to say I admire all those who sacrificed their comfort in the struggle to develop the great harnesses we use today, after the prac in rope harness I was walking like brother colin

EMR, I climb on a VT and a simpler version french prusik that can be tied one handed. Like Ekka when I have to spike up a vertical pole I'll use a blakes or English prusik, mainly because it seems to be easier to advance with the rhythm of body thrusting. I also like to play around with my options when double crotching with whatever hitch is on my mind..really like both the icicle and schwabisch.

Sean

Ekka · 31st March 2007, 09:22 PM

Righto guys, here's the place for you all to show what you got.

I'm just nicking off down to the garage to take a pic of my Blakes. I use a 5 coil version.

Friction hitches for climbing lines

emr · 1st April 2007, 05:23 PM

My reason for asking was that I have been actually going back to basics lately. I do climb SRT and use ascenders and the Pantin, which I love, but in some situations its better to keep it simple. One huge switch back for me was going to a floating bridge saddle. Im on the Glide now, but it is basically the floating Ds that I learned on and my still climb on. I wanted some insight on the over-looked benefits of your system. Thanks

Marc · 11th May 2007, 04:14 PM

Hi emr, o.k one thing i'd like to ask is why are french prussiks and the like called advanced hitches? they are not more advanced just new, I think we can be mislead by that term.

I like either a blakes or VT, the beauty of a blakes or similar is you can adjust the bridge so you can make it longer which is better for footlocking or thrusting up the tree.

Climbing with a so called advanced hitch will not advance your climbing, but i do reccomend playing with as many types of hitch as you can to find what makes your climbing more effcient and easier.

I've worked with dozens of climbers with over 10 year experience each, no one system stands out, some use an english prussik, some use a blakes others use a variation of french prussik others use a lockjack.

Some of us find a system and stick with it, it does'nt mean to say we/they are stagnant and not keeping up with modern techniques. Me I love to play, i love all the toys and different hitches.

I have all the latest modern kit, and use modern techniques, but i still get shown by guys climbing on a tautline using both ends of there rope, climbing in fixed point harnesses.

Ekka · 11th May 2007, 07:55 PM

Marc

Many times people say to me ... "oh, you dont have a spliced eye in your climbing line, you don't have a spliced eye in your split tail" etc

They think I'm a little backward or dont know about the huge benefits of splices and prefer some big assed fishermans knot on my biner.

Fact is I dont like spliced ropes as described above.

Why?

Many times I clean palms and I need to cinch right up to the biner and only the bridge of the split tail is holding me. Try that with a spliced rope ... it slips on the taper of the splice. Same when I shorten the bridge, the taper of the splice means the Blakes doesn't work as well.

Just the other day Jim asked how I pull out the Rope Guide as the climbing line wasn't spliced. I said easy, just before you take the head out you undo it while your there.

Hang it on your saddle and bomb the head out.

But I do have the retrieval ball on a short throwline and can tie that to the end of the climbing line ... no real biggy.

l2edneck · 11th May 2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

They think I'm a little backward or dont know about the huge benefits of splices and prefer some big assed fishermans knot on my biner

Not that im even in yalls league but use a taught with four coils.Mainly because thats the way i was taught and am stubborn.

I like havin a big knot makes me feel safer for some reason.Also probably because its cheap and i dont like to take more than i need due to weight and just the more you got hooked to to you seems like more stuff to get hung up.

Once again just my opinion.

Ekka · 12th May 2007, 05:50 AM

Cheap is good.

Marc · 13th May 2007, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Cheap is good.

Another reason I do'nt use splices for my hitch cord (unless I could do them myself) A spliced length of tenex costs 10-15 quid an un-spliced length is ?2, plus with tying a fishermans you can adjust it to your prefered length, it cinches tighter to the biner, and the buried end does'nt interfer with the hitch.

I bought 6.5m of xtc to make my blakes htiches, it cost the same as 1 splced length and i can make upto 5 blakes with it, yes the fishermans knot is a little chunky, but if the end of your climbing line is spliced its no biggie.

Makes good sense to me.

Different stroke for different folks.

George Hayduke · 19th May 2007, 10:15 PM

Eric,

You need to study history more. The idea for a split tail originated in Australia many years ago.

Using a Pantin makes really good sense a lot of the time. It's much easier most of the time to ascend a rope then put on spikes instead of spiking all of the way up.

JohN Dee · 20th May 2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Hayduke

Using a Pantin makes really good sense a lot of the time. It's much easier most of the time to ascend a rope then put on spikes instead of spiking all of the way up.

It's easier in the short term, but how long will it take for you to become complacent? The beauty of going up a tree DdRT rather then SRT is you slow down and are able to visually inspect the tree for defects as you are climbing - rather then speeding up a line being completely oblivious to a defect that could take your life.

Now I'm not telling you to spike up your prune's or that pantin's shouldn't be used, but I'm just saying fast and easy isn't always good for you.

George Hayduke · 20th May 2007, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohN Dee

The beauty of going up a tree DdRT rather then SRT is you slow down and are able to visually inspect the tree for defects as you are climbing - rather then speeding up a line being completely oblivious to a defect that could take your life.

Now I'm not telling you to spike up your prune's or that pantin's shouldn't be used, but I'm just saying fast and easy isn't always good for you.

What??? that logic doesn't make a bit of sense!!!

Here's another way to apply your logic. If you walk to work you'll be much more

30th March 2007, 07:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
emr Sappling Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 9	Ekka, whats with the Blakes? I have been watching your vids for a while and I was wondering why dont you climb with an advanced friction hitch? You seem to be a very skilled climber, yet you use an out-dated friction hitch. I also noticed you climb on 1/2" climbing line not 7/16", is there a reason for this? I want to say that I have learned tons from your vids and post, so I am not busting on you, but I have to wonder why you are not keeping up with the new trends in tree climbing. Please do not take this as an insult because I have nothing but respect for you.

30th March 2007, 09:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	OK I hate 7/16 line, we dont wear gloves and that smaller harder line sucks to grip and work ... not my scene. Also the thinner line gets stuck in palm heads easier. We predominantly do TD's so spiking and flipping is more common than prussicking up a tree. I'm not into spliced eyes and gadgetry, more biners than you need, having two knots or two eyes of a french prussic plus the tail of my climbing line onto one biner, nah, not my scene. I like to use climbing line for my hitches, it's readily available and cheap requiring just a knot. I figure that many guys use this Euro idea coz they want to have a prussic that advances itself when they climb the line. You know, it's been nearly 2 years since I used my pantin, that's how often I need to climb the line. In global terminolgy, we're euc men and you guys seem to be more oak men. But in saying that Trev from Melbourne has 50% of his work as prunes, maybe he uses a french prussic or VT but here it's different. I hope that answers your question. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

31st March 2007, 09:38 AM	#3 (permalink)
TREE-SURFER Mature tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Isle of Man,UK. Posts: 410	Ekka, I was gonna buy 1 of those pantin's. Are they any good? __________________ The Aerial Arborist Isle of Man Tree Surgeon\| All Aspects of Tree Work Andy@Aerial-Arborist.co.uk What experts say about TOPPING

31st March 2007, 01:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Sure are, you do a bit of pruning to then? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

31st March 2007, 04:38 PM	#6 (permalink)
Underwor Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: North Dakota Posts: 50	EMR, You would really go nuts watching me climb. I use a tautline, tied in the tail of my climbing line most of the time. For recreation, I will use a MT or occasionally a Swabish. I show my students about 10 different hitches and let them decide what they like best. Most use the Blake's. I stay with the tautline, which I learned with Davey, 40 years ago this June, because I know how it works under all sorts of conditions and I can tie it one handed, behind my back if I need to recrotch in a very tight situation. Remember, when I started I was not shown anything as fancy as a lanyard, split tail or other fancy stuff, just a lot of double crotching with the tail of the climbing line. Even started using double bowline on a bight for a saddle. A real old fart!! __________________ Bob Underwood, Associate Professor of Forestry ND School of Forestry Minot State University - Bottineau Campus Bottineau, North Dakota

31st March 2007, 06:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
Sean Freeman PDF King & Arborist Extrodinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Townsville Nth Queensland & Gold Coast Sth Queensland Posts: 1,671	Bob, when I did my aerial rescue cert we had to show the ability to both tie and then climb and rescue another using the rope harness, have to say I admire all those who sacrificed their comfort in the struggle to develop the great harnesses we use today, after the prac in rope harness I was walking like brother colin EMR, I climb on a VT and a simpler version french prusik that can be tied one handed. Like Ekka when I have to spike up a vertical pole I'll use a blakes or English prusik, mainly because it seems to be easier to advance with the rhythm of body thrusting. I also like to play around with my options when double crotching with whatever hitch is on my mind..really like both the icicle and schwabisch. Sean

31st March 2007, 09:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Righto guys, here's the place for you all to show what you got. I'm just nicking off down to the garage to take a pic of my Blakes. I use a 5 coil version. Friction hitches for climbing lines __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

1st April 2007, 05:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
emr Sappling Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 9	My reason for asking was that I have been actually going back to basics lately. I do climb SRT and use ascenders and the Pantin, which I love, but in some situations its better to keep it simple. One huge switch back for me was going to a floating bridge saddle. Im on the Glide now, but it is basically the floating Ds that I learned on and my still climb on. I wanted some insight on the over-looked benefits of your system. Thanks

11th May 2007, 04:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
Marc Sappling Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 17	Hi emr, o.k one thing i'd like to ask is why are french prussiks and the like called advanced hitches? they are not more advanced just new, I think we can be mislead by that term. I like either a blakes or VT, the beauty of a blakes or similar is you can adjust the bridge so you can make it longer which is better for footlocking or thrusting up the tree. Climbing with a so called advanced hitch will not advance your climbing, but i do reccomend playing with as many types of hitch as you can to find what makes your climbing more effcient and easier. I've worked with dozens of climbers with over 10 year experience each, no one system stands out, some use an english prussik, some use a blakes others use a variation of french prussik others use a lockjack. Some of us find a system and stick with it, it does'nt mean to say we/they are stagnant and not keeping up with modern techniques. Me I love to play, i love all the toys and different hitches. I have all the latest modern kit, and use modern techniques, but i still get shown by guys climbing on a tautline using both ends of there rope, climbing in fixed point harnesses.

11th May 2007, 07:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Marc Many times people say to me ... "oh, you dont have a spliced eye in your climbing line, you don't have a spliced eye in your split tail" etc They think I'm a little backward or dont know about the huge benefits of splices and prefer some big assed fishermans knot on my biner. Fact is I dont like spliced ropes as described above. Why? Many times I clean palms and I need to cinch right up to the biner and only the bridge of the split tail is holding me. Try that with a spliced rope ... it slips on the taper of the splice. Same when I shorten the bridge, the taper of the splice means the Blakes doesn't work as well. Just the other day Jim asked how I pull out the Rope Guide as the climbing line wasn't spliced. I said easy, just before you take the head out you undo it while your there. Hang it on your saddle and bomb the head out. But I do have the retrieval ball on a short throwline and can tie that to the end of the climbing line ... no real biggy. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

12th May 2007, 05:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,943	Cheap is good. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding and Stump Removal Brisbane Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations, Developer, Tree and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

19th May 2007, 10:15 PM	#15 (permalink)
George Hayduke Banned Join Date: May 2007 Location: Slickrock, USA Posts: 92	Eric, You need to study history more. The idea for a split tail originated in Australia many years ago. Using a Pantin makes really good sense a lot of the time. It's much easier most of the time to ascend a rope then put on spikes instead of spiking all of the way up.