Do termites kill trees?

Eric Frei

Think about this question carefully.

Imagine you are sat before a judge and asked the question, will termites kill a tree, yes or no?

I know I only have 2 options to vote for because I want to force a definative yes or no, no maybe's or depends on bla bla bla. For instance, we know many other ailments that will kill a tree, no doubt about it, so lets open it up but force you into a corner at the same time.

Live trees fail with termites present, so do dead trees, in this definition we are looking beyond failure as the cause of death ... in other words, if the tree were propped and suspended would the termites end up killing the tree from their activities?

If you know entomologists and termite experts now is the time to call them in.

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TreeCo

I don't know if they kill trees or not but they sure do drag a lot of dirt up inside the trunk!

Drouin Tree Service

They sure dont help!

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Sean Freeman

I don't want to come across like an entomologist, cause you all know I'm not however for me the answer to your hypothetical is yes...but very slowly. Termites do not eat live wood they follow the advances of dysfunction in the tree contained more or less by CODIT...however some termites have an interesting weapon..they farm wood digesting fungi and by doing so actually make available much more wood tissue than would otherwise be the case.

Mycology - Animal Interactions - Symbiotic Interactions

Termites' symbiotic fungi & social homeostasis

My own dissections of declining large gums of various species up here certainly suggests there's more going on even with our little (and not so little!) ozzie white ants!

Drouin Tree Service

Yes ive seen them eat more than the dead stuff!

Ive got some pics somewhere.

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mdvaden

It might depend on whether we are talking about American termites or Australian termites.

Some termites are bigger than others, you know.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do good things for trees and bad things.

They do destroy solid wood. And solid wood in a tree is not a bad thing to have present, even if it's dead tissue. There is going to be some strength in it, unless its burrowed and digested.

But that may be more a matter of weakening than killing. Yet, weakening can lead to death.

NeTree

I seem to recall this being hashed out with some fervor on another forum a few years back.

I voted no, because IMHO termites are a symptom- not a cause- of tree health issues. By themselves, no- they won't kill a tree.

That said, while they're making inroads into a tree, they open up many avenues for more detrimental things to take hold.

Steve Tipton

Hear hear!

windthrown

Termites around here (US PNW) do not eat live wood, nor will they kill a live and halthy tree. Supposedly they cannot eat anything but dead wood, lest there would be no more trees in the world. They will eat a dying tree of any decayed wood, and people will think that they have killed them. I recall from an antropology class in college that termites generate more energy and body heat than any other species on earth, including humans.

I have never seen a termite infestation in a living tree. I had a huge colony in my house in California though. 2x4 sawdust. Even in redwood. Munch munch munch....

treeman

I have too say yes
Shigo's A New Tree Biology give a good description of the little
blighters

dguntertrees

Sorry Ekka,

doesn't look like you're going to get away with a yes or no here....

Depends on the species of Termite; species of tree; geographical location...

I would say no, not directly. But then again.....

arborjockey

Ill agree that, Ekka you have to be more specific this time. If they only eat dead wood they would have to have access to it. Maybe a dead stub. That tree probably would have to be digestable to them. Last their would have to be alot of those buggers to eat a big tree. How many calls have you gotten from homeowners who say that the ants are killing their tree? I was taught that most ants only infest trees that have been previously entered by termites. The ants renevate the the termite old holes and move in. So if your tree had termites maybe you can bring in ants to evict them. I found this pic. it says it was taken in Queensland and the mounds are termites. Do gums not get termites? Im sure their hungry

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Eric Frei

Plenty of termites in trees here however in my experience they dont eat sapwood and their predominant point of entry is centre (pith).

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TreeSpecialist

No.

Not directly.

But then again trees often succumb to a variety of ills before going toes up.

I have seen termites in a wide variety of living (and apparently healthy trees - even trees known for their resistance to decay such as Juniperus asheii.)

They seem to colonize decayed areas behind walls 1 and 2 (CODIT) - seldom breach wall 3 or 4.

We have the Formosan termite coming in here - they find them in creosoted rail road ties as well as houses.

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newguy18

I'd have to say no,i've only seen termites in dead trees or trees with cavities or heart rot.I will say they don't help the tree in anyway that i can tell and have probabley led to many tree or limb failures.

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old schooler

Oldtimer

Eric, your dream finally comes true.
Unknown disease killing off Florida's state tree
Interesting news story:
http://www.treeworld.info/f6/unknown...alms-3651.html

Q.Q.

I have to agree with some of the answers yes and no.I actually have studdied the biological habits of termites for five years as a certified timber pest technician. It was a little while ago but I still remember most stuff and species.
In Queensland there are three to four types of termites that are known to be very aggressive,subteranian termites.There faviourite spot to dewell at,in a live tree is, between 450cms below ground to about 400cms above ground.This is there faviourite spot for a nest.From this nest site they might have four to six sub colliney's,like the one you might find in your wall cavity of your new home.These termites will alway's travel back to main nest eventually.From the main nest to a feeding site can be up to 250mtrs away,so mabie across that hi-way, or one block over you cna never really tell sometimes.
The two main things that need to survive on is Water,and Cellulose from the timber.Cut of there water supply and they eventally die.So when you place a chemical barrier around the foot of someting in cuts them off from the ground and there water supply.Althought if they are in the house and you have a leak under bath for instance,a good water source they still survive and keep eating away at what ever it is.
There is one termite that exsites only in Marybourgh QLD I think, West Indian Dry Wood termite, that does not need to go to ground for water.The only wat to successfully kill this little barsted is to tent the whole house and gas with Methal Bromite.

Well you guys out there that are very cluey with tree's, if the hart wood of the entire tree is gone how does this effect it???.Can it survive or will die???

Want to any more just let me know.But I have to yes I think,eventually my little friends will win.

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Eric Frei

Very interesting, Here's another thread about the tree nesting termites.

Oh, and to answer your question about hollowed trees etc. Depends on the weight of the branch vs the the diameter and the hollowness. Not being a smart ass but scribbly gums here get eaten out big time, nearly all get lots of hollows up to the sapwood. Now on big say 2' dia branches I have seen many bust off as the sapwood just isn't enough and the tree is big and old and not growing much.

Birds etc love them though, always lots of hollows and busted bit etc.

Arboreal - Tree Nesting Termites in Brisbane

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Q.Q.

Good thread ekka. Yep that is all pretty spot on.Very rearly do the arboreal termites attack your home, but I have seen it. They also feed on grass and twiggs and stuff.
Your chemical barrier for these somtimes has to twice as wide because they are known to walk right across it.Hence the name.
They are a lot smarter than you think.I use to do arsnic treatments on termites as well,and if they suspect something is wrong with the sub coloney they will cut it off and sacrafice it to save the rest.
Not sure on these scribbly gums,don't think we have them out here,but will keep an eye out for them.I did hear something of them though from other people, pretty much like what you said.

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OutofMytree

Bah humbug! Termites don't kill trees, I kill trees!

Grizzly

from my experience I have found termites in the dead wood of a live tree before, but not in the green limbs. it wasn't too infested yet but then again where they were was a perfect place for fungi to grow and infect the tree. its common for that to occur in olive tree for what I have seen rarely in ficus trees too that have been toped and old lopped leader had died off.

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Q.Q.

Hmm I still have to say that in the long run the tree's demize will eventually be as a result from termite attack.

I have done takedowns on large box tree's out here and most of them that arn't well have active termites in them.The tree's them selves still kinda look ok but you can tell straight away that something is wrong.Most of the ones I have done, the hart wood is hollowed out nearly to the top branches and it is all still green wood.

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Eric Frei

Next decent hollow one you get please take a very steady detailed picture, might even help to wet the wood.

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Q.Q.

Ok I will try but not sure on how to get them on here,still new to me all this computor tecnoligy.

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marita123

Termites are harmful for trees. Formosan termites which mostly found in United States. They eat wood at a faster rate than other kinds of termites, and they will eat a lot of other random things that other termites. They spread very quickly because they can establish colonies in various wooden garden products.
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marita

Grizzly

The other day I was cleaning the year and there had been about a dozen or so trees out there that been sitting for a few years or so. But any who I was surprised that the only thing I found was carpenter ants and a bunch of dry rot. Plus the cedar that had been there for ages was not touched by anything. just the bark had fallen off; god knows when, but there was no insect activity. At least were I bucked up the logs and the chunks that fell off from the rotting stump.

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OutofMytree

This is sorta on topic. Took these pics day before yesterday. I had been looking for the best graphic examples of why poor cutting techniques are to be avoided. Note the cut on picture 1 to the right hand side of the stub.


Oh and yes, white ants killed this tree!! Or perhaps it was seridium canker....

Don Ross

Eric, I have seen eight trees (two stem failure from wind), Tree 84 in New Farm Park, not dead but heading that way before BCC cut it down in July 2007), 90 year old jacaranda tree in Villiers Street New Farm (should never have been cut-down), Kapunda Street Coorparoo, Birdwood Terrace (1 off), tallowwood grove trees C4 and C5 (termites plus probably brown root rot), Rouen Road tree (should not have cut down by BCC) down and half the stem hollowed out by termites.

What the jacaranda tree did in Villiers Street New Farm was to drop a large branch at Christmas 2007 and hence open up the termites in the stem to the light, sun and attack by ants and the termites were soon gone from the hollowed out trunk.

The termites kill drought stressed tallowwoods by destroying the bark & it is the drought more than the termites that kill the tree. The Tallowwood Tree C1 had termite attack but it was the brown root rot that actually caused the tree to overturn and block the road.

Regards

Don Ross

treevet

Good art. in ISA News Oct. Some points of interest:

Carpenter ants don't eat wood like termites but excavate for nesting

Most carp ant colonies are found in trees with decay.

The brood colony is in moist wood near soil for egg development.

They have satellite colonies to develop the larvae and these are in dry wood and could be in a house, tree, wood pile, etc. I personally have found them 90 feet up in a Pin oak.

When they forage they have defined trails. These may include a wire that passes through a tree into a house. Another reason to earn some $ clearing back from wires.

Swarming c. ants mean a new colony is being formed with a new queen. There is only 1 queen per colony.

These divided colonies are detached from each other and may engage in an "ant war" with physical battles if they encounter each other later. (sounds like treemen ).

Ants farm aphids to consume their honeydew. I have seen them literally moving them around in their mouths.

You cannot call sawdust around ant nests frass as it is not consumed, digested and pooped (careful...a technical term) out.

Baits are not consistently effective on c. ants as they are very diet specific and diet loyal.

Carp. ants can infest houses (likely the satellite colony) when they fall from nearby infested trees.

C. ants can be beneficial as food for certain birds (such as pileated woodpeckers) and as predators of defoliating insects. If you see holes from these woodpeckers in trees or the bird itself then you can assume infestation as c. ants are their primary source of food.

If you store f. wood near your home year round you are asking for trouble with satellite and brood colonies. If you store just in winter they are dormant and you have burned it all by spring
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They do not just excavate decayed wood but also enter sound wood possibly breaching trees defense and spreading decay.

Thought this synopsis might be useful to some as it contradicts some commonly held opinions on Carp. ants. Didn't feel like starting a new thread.

Alltrees

I have experienced termites in a large silky oak and when left over a number of years they eventually found their way into a major limb. Slowly the limb became more and more diseased and unsafe and I eventually I dropped the tree because of this. When I cut off the limb the decay had penetrated well down into the trunk. I believe that termites kill trees by allowing decay to follow their destruction.