Do termites kill trees?

TreeSpecialist · 21st November 2008, 10:57 PM

I think you have it backwards. The termites follow the decay - not the other way around.

Compartmentalization exists only over a time line to the length of which is determined by genetics, species, tree vigor, tree health, type and degree of care the tree receives during its life span.

Fungi work 24-7 to degrade in penetrate compartmentalized barriers. Ultimately, the fungi win. As decay spreads, the termites advance their colony.

Termites I have found in trees have always been confined to compartmentalized areas of decay - in all species - oak, elm, juniper, pecan, hackberry, mesquite, etc.

At first glance termites are an easy target of blame. I think if you look closer longitudinal dissections are great) you'll find the termites only in wood previously invaded by fungi.

Knotahippie · 22nd November 2008, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeSpecialist

I think you have it backwards. The termites follow the decay - not the other way around.

OutofMytree · 22nd November 2008, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeSpecialist

I think you have it backwards. The termites follow the decay - not the other way around.

Compartmentalization exists only over a time line to the length of which is determined by genetics, species, tree vigor, tree health, type and degree of care the tree receives during its life span.

Fungi work 24-7 to degrade in penetrate compartmentalized barriers. Ultimately, the fungi win. As decay spreads, the termites advance their colony.

Termites I have found in trees have always been confined to compartmentalized areas of decay - in all species - oak, elm, juniper, pecan, hackberry, mesquite, etc.

At first glance termites are an easy target of blame. I think if you look closer longitudinal dissections are great) you'll find the termites only in wood previously invaded by fungi.

Bah, humbug! Termites kill trees. So lets nuke those sons-of-eggs!

Knotahippie · 22nd November 2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutofMytree

Bah, humbug! Termites kill trees. So lets nuke those sons-of-eggs!

Less rubbery if ya' pan fry em' with lot's a butter and garlic.

Alltrees · 23rd November 2008, 12:15 AM

Ok.. There may have been some initial decay in the limb but these critters ate there way up about 6 metres of healthy tree between the sapwood and bark to get to this limb.
Termites also enjoy eating XLPE cable (so do Galahs) no pun intended.
Really, termites have been found eating XLPE underground cables and have caused cable failures. Also been known to eat through concrete to get to timber.

So I really cannot see any reason why they wouldn't put healthy wood on their menu

Don Ross · 23rd November 2008, 04:00 PM

Here is some photographic evidence:

Alltrees · 23rd November 2008, 10:03 PM

Don Ross. Good detail and Great pictures. I wonder how Termite treatments would go towards preventing this. Termador and Biflex are typical barrier treatments but probably not much good if the termites can get in the root system as well. The drought could well have contributed to this. Termites need water to survive.. No water.. No problem... living wood will do!

Knotahippie · 25th November 2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alltrees

Ok.. There may have been some initial decay in the limb but these critters ate there way up about 6 metres of healthy tree between the sapwood and bark to get to this limb.
Termites also enjoy eating XLPE cable (so do Galahs) no pun intended.
Really, termites have been found eating XLPE underground cables and have caused cable failures. Also been known to eat through concrete to get to timber.

So I really cannot see any reason why they wouldn't put healthy wood on their menu

Sounds like decay was on the move in a major way with this tree.

Have heard of termites eating all kinds of cellulose but read about few eating into live tree wood.

Termites chew through plastic, asphault, creosote, mortar and some others I don't recall.

The chewing through concrete thing is a myth from what I read but mortar is dang close.

IMO it seems like a path of least resistance thing. Decayed wood is easier to eat.

Some nutritional benifit from the bacteria and fungus might be key.

OutofMytree · 20th December 2008, 08:37 PM

Dunno about the concrete thing Knotahippie but I did some work in a hotel where termites ate a balustrade on the 3rd floor and the only evidence of their access point was mud on concrete pillars in the sub-basement.

Garry Brockley · 21st December 2008, 03:14 PM

like ants do termites grow certain fungi in thier nest for food? and if so wouldn't this increase the fungal cultures and spread the fungi where ever the nest gets too, obviously this theory depends on the type of mycelium they encourage but it's a thought.

OutofMytree · 21st December 2008, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galbee

like ants do termites grow certain fungi in thier nest for food? and if so wouldn't this increase the fungal cultures and spread the fungi where ever the nest gets too, obviously this theory depends on the type of mycelium they encourage but it's a thought.

Now there are 2 good reasons to nuke em!

sustainability · 11th January 2009, 09:39 PM

Termites are a secondary or more likely a tertiary vector. They follow and are able to invade through decayed pathways of insipid timber due to fungal activity and a breakdown of natural defences.

treevet · 12th January 2009, 01:03 AM

If we define "vector" as an organism that transmits diseases, infections or foreign living material....then I do not think the term would apply to termites as they enter and consume previously diseased material.

Like mentioned above I have read that they do enhance the virulence of the fungi with their excrement (or farm it if you will).

sustainability · 12th January 2009, 01:27 PM

fair call on the terminology, but it is the fungi that is the catalyst for the invasion to be possible. Without fungi termites will not invade healthy timber.

treevet · 12th January 2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sustainability

fair call on the terminology, but it is the fungi that is the catalyst for the invasion to be possible. Without fungi termites will not invade healthy timber.

I agree.

Q.Q. · 11th February 2009, 12:00 AM

I dissagree totally with you both.
I have seen them in tree's out here with no fungi or rot signs at all. Mainly the Box tree's,and some Euc's.
So if you have a fress fence post a week old with no rot and fungis and termites are already in it, why did they enter?.
Hate to tell you that termites eat cellulose in timber, no matter how old it is.

Termites are like us in a way, if you see shade you go and stand in it.They can feel the same thing under the ground, so they go towards it in search of food.They won't directly eat through concrete but use cracks or joins,and they will and can travel up concrete,steel, or a straight piller of mud.
They will form a nest under a healthy tree in it's root ball and from there go to work.

jomoco · 13th February 2009, 04:59 PM

Fantastic and very interesting thread guys.

I voted no, and feel that like maggots they only eat dead tissue.

I've observed that termite infested trees here in socal almost invariably have accompanying woodpeckers, almost a symbiotic relationship between the woodpeckers and trees at the expense of the termites!

I've also noted that argentine ants harvest lerp psyllid larvae from under the sugar caps on red gum eucs. They get carefully hauled off to the ant nest alive.

jomoco

Q.Q. · 13th February 2009, 10:31 PM

I took some photo's today with my phone of active termites in a native Australian bottle bush tree.
The mud tracks were on the outside three quarters of the way to the top, and a hole at a crotch was full of mud and active termite's.
The other tree I photographed was just before Christmas in a Box tree, Same thing agian but more termite's and a more serious species.

Coptotermes acinaciformis.

Done it · 14th February 2009, 08:00 PM

Well they didn't kill this one, I think it was the power company hacking the top out of it. Some type of gum, about 60', dead as, not sure what it was.

No sign of termites except the top 10 feet, solid from there down. They were active and heading down.

Q.Q. · 14th February 2009, 08:30 PM

If I can pull the photo's off of my phone I will try to get them on.
Computers and I don't mix unfortunalty

newguy18 · 15th February 2009, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jomoco

Fantastic and very interesting thread guys.

I voted no, and feel that like maggots they only eat dead tissue.

I've observed that termite infested trees here in socal almost invariably have accompanying woodpeckers, almost a symbiotic relationship between the woodpeckers and trees at the expense of the termites!

I've also noted that argentine ants harvest lerp psyllid larvae from under the sugar caps on red gum eucs. They get carefully hauled off to the ant nest alive.

jomoco

Hi jojo.

jomoco · 15th February 2009, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

Hi jojo.

Hi Dombeya!

jomoco

Robert STAVROU · 18th February 2009, 02:58 PM

G'day guys, while undertaking an endemic tree survey in a littoral rainforest remnant we can across a species of termite that was consuming living vascular cambium in Guioa semiglauca, dampwood termites they were called (Porotermes adamsoni) eat obviously wet timber (and they do not need to return to the ground). Found them intersting as I had not encountered them before (just a 'young fella'). Stav

Eric Frei · 27th August 2009, 09:52 AM

Interesting research

Termite chewing gives warning(Science Alert)

Quote:

The drywood termite, Cryptotermes secundus, eavesdrops on its more aggressive subterranean competitor, Coptotermes acinaciformis, to avoid contact with it, according to scientists from CSIRO Entomology and the University of New South Wales at the Australian Defence Force Academy.

Both species eat sound dry wood and can co-exist in the same tree but, while drywood termite colonies contain only about 200 individuals and are confined to one tree, colonies of Coptotermes – Australia’s dominant wood-eating termite – contain around a million individuals, including thousands of aggressive soldiers, and can forage on up to 20 trees simultaneously.

“We already knew that chewing termites generate vibrations which they use to determine wood size and quality, so it seemed possible that one species could detect another using these vibrations,” CSIRO Entomology’s Dr Theo Evans said. “We found that Cryptotermes could use vibration signals to distinguish between their own and Coptotermes individuals. They would even respond to recorded signals.

“This is the first time the ability to identify a different species using only their vibration signals has been identified in termites.

“Because vibration signals move rapidly through wood and can be detected from a distance, the vulnerable species have an eavesdropping advantage as they can detect their aggressive relatives without having to come into contact with them.”

Dr Evans said the advantage to Cryptotermes in avoiding Coptotermes was made very clear in one trial where the Coptotermes tunnelled through a 20mm block of wood and killed all the Cryptotermes.

Cryptotermes and the ‘tree piping’ Coptotermes are heartwood eaters and are among the few termites groups that attack buildings. Eighty-five percent of Australian trees are infested with Coptotermes.

Coptotermes enter trees through their roots and it is their ‘tree piping’ that produces the raw material for the didgeridoo.

This research – conducted in collaboration with Professor Joseph Lai at UNSW@ADFA and with the support of the Australian Research Council – was recently published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

Q.Q. · 31st August 2009, 10:21 PM

Well I came accross active termites last week in a Flood Gum, - Rose Gum out this way (Eucalyptus grandis). There were no signs of any Fugus or other sections of root ball that might have been compromized as some of you may think. And I don't get a lot of rot out here either.

As I have always found they were yet again, Coptotermes acinaciformas. Very active and at least four meters above the root crown, eating out the heart wood.

The stump is left so I can get some photo's for you who want to see them.

Eric Frei · 31st August 2009, 10:47 PM

Yeah. Lets see.

Q.Q. · 31st August 2009, 10:51 PM

Hmm another non believer. I will prove you all wrong one day, or just come out here for a holday and I can prove it

Eric Frei · 31st August 2009, 11:11 PM

Oh, I believe ya, just want to see.

No bastids going out there to visit ya, especially in summer!

Q.Q. · 17th September 2009, 11:36 PM

Ha ha ha well by that last thread Ekka my friend it still sounded like disbeleive to my or was it just sarcasim yet again.

You are in for a little treat my friend, guys I did take dows on two trees today, both with termites in them, and lucky for you I just happend to have the camera in the truck. The first lot of photo's is of a large Box Tree that are commom out here and always have no signs of anythink wrong until you start cutting, and find my little friends.

The second is of a large CYPRESS PINE tree, that wasnt in good condition at all, with a large seam crack from two foot above the ground, up to the two main leaders. I had to chain the two together as they were moving backwards and forwards with me on them. Now after the trunk came crashing down it split in two, and guess what I found, termites. Now keep in mind that it was Cypress Pine, the termite resistant timber that they use in houses. One side of the tree was dead, but the other was healthy, go figure.
And befor you say anything about trying to save it, it was fifteen meters from a school cross walk so I made the call for removel.

Eric Frei · 20th September 2009, 10:50 AM

What is it you're suggesting I'm skeptical on?

That termites dont eat sound wood, I know they do.

That there's some decay or fungi first and termites follow that? Not always the case, but some opinions here are from outside Australia.

That CSIRO quote above said they're heartwood eaters and 85% of trees are infected. Good pics, not much mud track up there.

View Poll Results: Do termites kill trees?
Yes	45	38.46%
No	72	61.54%
Voters: 117. You may not vote on this poll

21st November 2008, 10:57 PM	#31
TreeSpecialist Mature tree Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 373	Re: Do termites kill trees? I think you have it backwards. The termites follow the decay - not the other way around. Compartmentalization exists only over a time line to the length of which is determined by genetics, species, tree vigor, tree health, type and degree of care the tree receives during its life span. Fungi work 24-7 to degrade in penetrate compartmentalized barriers. Ultimately, the fungi win. As decay spreads, the termites advance their colony. Termites I have found in trees have always been confined to compartmentalized areas of decay - in all species - oak, elm, juniper, pecan, hackberry, mesquite, etc. At first glance termites are an easy target of blame. I think if you look closer longitudinal dissections are great) you'll find the termites only in wood previously invaded by fungi. __________________

23rd November 2008, 12:15 AM	#35
Alltrees Sappling Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10	Re: Do termites kill trees? Ok.. There may have been some initial decay in the limb but these critters ate there way up about 6 metres of healthy tree between the sapwood and bark to get to this limb. Termites also enjoy eating XLPE cable (so do Galahs) no pun intended. Really, termites have been found eating XLPE underground cables and have caused cable failures. Also been known to eat through concrete to get to timber. So I really cannot see any reason why they wouldn't put healthy wood on their menu

23rd November 2008, 10:03 PM	#37
Alltrees Sappling Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Brisbane Posts: 10	Re: Do termites kill trees? Don Ross. Good detail and Great pictures. I wonder how Termite treatments would go towards preventing this. Termador and Biflex are typical barrier treatments but probably not much good if the termites can get in the root system as well. The drought could well have contributed to this. Termites need water to survive.. No water.. No problem... living wood will do!

20th December 2008, 08:37 PM	#39
OutofMytree Former Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Perth Posts: 307	Re: Do termites kill trees? Dunno about the concrete thing Knotahippie but I did some work in a hotel where termites ate a balustrade on the 3rd floor and the only evidence of their access point was mud on concrete pillars in the sub-basement.

21st December 2008, 03:14 PM	#40
Garry Brockley Bayside Tree Care Brisbane Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,649	Re: Do termites kill trees? like ants do termites grow certain fungi in thier nest for food? and if so wouldn't this increase the fungal cultures and spread the fungi where ever the nest gets too, obviously this theory depends on the type of mycelium they encourage but it's a thought. __________________ My business:- Brisbane Bayside Tree Care

11th January 2009, 09:39 PM	#42
sustainability Former Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 6	Re: Do termites kill trees? Termites are a secondary or more likely a tertiary vector. They follow and are able to invade through decayed pathways of insipid timber due to fungal activity and a breakdown of natural defences.

12th January 2009, 01:03 AM	#43
treevet Backflipper Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Posts: 2,131	Re: Do termites kill trees? If we define "vector" as an organism that transmits diseases, infections or foreign living material....then I do not think the term would apply to termites as they enter and consume previously diseased material. Like mentioned above I have read that they do enhance the virulence of the fungi with their excrement (or farm it if you will).

12th January 2009, 01:27 PM	#44
sustainability Former Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 6	Re: Do termites kill trees? fair call on the terminology, but it is the fungi that is the catalyst for the invasion to be possible. Without fungi termites will not invade healthy timber.

11th February 2009, 12:00 AM	#46
Q.Q. Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Western QLD. Australia Posts: 282	Re: Do termites kill trees? I dissagree totally with you both. I have seen them in tree's out here with no fungi or rot signs at all. Mainly the Box tree's,and some Euc's. So if you have a fress fence post a week old with no rot and fungis and termites are already in it, why did they enter?. Hate to tell you that termites eat cellulose in timber, no matter how old it is. Termites are like us in a way, if you see shade you go and stand in it.They can feel the same thing under the ground, so they go towards it in search of food.They won't directly eat through concrete but use cracks or joins,and they will and can travel up concrete,steel, or a straight piller of mud. They will form a nest under a healthy tree in it's root ball and from there go to work. __________________ Q,Q's Tree & Garden Maintenance FAMILARITY BREEDS CONTEMPT

13th February 2009, 04:59 PM	#47
jomoco Sappling Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: San Diego Posts: 43	Re: Do termites kill trees? Fantastic and very interesting thread guys. I voted no, and feel that like maggots they only eat dead tissue. I've observed that termite infested trees here in socal almost invariably have accompanying woodpeckers, almost a symbiotic relationship between the woodpeckers and trees at the expense of the termites! I've also noted that argentine ants harvest lerp psyllid larvae from under the sugar caps on red gum eucs. They get carefully hauled off to the ant nest alive. jomoco

13th February 2009, 10:31 PM	#48
Q.Q. Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Western QLD. Australia Posts: 282	Re: Do termites kill trees? I took some photo's today with my phone of active termites in a native Australian bottle bush tree. The mud tracks were on the outside three quarters of the way to the top, and a hole at a crotch was full of mud and active termite's. The other tree I photographed was just before Christmas in a Box tree, Same thing agian but more termite's and a more serious species. Coptotermes acinaciformis. __________________ Q,Q's Tree & Garden Maintenance FAMILARITY BREEDS CONTEMPT

14th February 2009, 08:00 PM	#49
Done it Over mature heritage tree Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Australia. Posts: 784	Re: Do termites kill trees? Well they didn't kill this one, I think it was the power company hacking the top out of it. Some type of gum, about 60', dead as, not sure what it was. No sign of termites except the top 10 feet, solid from there down. They were active and heading down. Attached Thumbnails

14th February 2009, 08:30 PM	#50
Q.Q. Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Western QLD. Australia Posts: 282	Re: Do termites kill trees? If I can pull the photo's off of my phone I will try to get them on. Computers and I don't mix unfortunalty __________________ Q,Q's Tree & Garden Maintenance FAMILARITY BREEDS CONTEMPT

18th February 2009, 02:58 PM	#53
Robert STAVROU Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 56	Re: Do termites kill trees? G'day guys, while undertaking an endemic tree survey in a littoral rainforest remnant we can across a species of termite that was consuming living vascular cambium in Guioa semiglauca, dampwood termites they were called (Porotermes adamsoni) eat obviously wet timber (and they do not need to return to the ground). Found them intersting as I had not encountered them before (just a 'young fella'). Stav __________________ STAV

31st August 2009, 10:21 PM	#55
Q.Q. Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Western QLD. Australia Posts: 282	Re: Do termites kill trees? Well I came accross active termites last week in a Flood Gum, - Rose Gum out this way (Eucalyptus grandis). There were no signs of any Fugus or other sections of root ball that might have been compromized as some of you may think. And I don't get a lot of rot out here either. As I have always found they were yet again, Coptotermes acinaciformas. Very active and at least four meters above the root crown, eating out the heart wood. The stump is left so I can get some photo's for you who want to see them. __________________ Q,Q's Tree & Garden Maintenance FAMILARITY BREEDS CONTEMPT

31st August 2009, 10:47 PM	#56
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Do termites kill trees? Yeah. Lets see. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

31st August 2009, 10:51 PM	#57
Q.Q. Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Western QLD. Australia Posts: 282	Re: Do termites kill trees? Hmm another non believer. I will prove you all wrong one day, or just come out here for a holday and I can prove it __________________ Q,Q's Tree & Garden Maintenance FAMILARITY BREEDS CONTEMPT

31st August 2009, 11:11 PM	#58
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Do termites kill trees? Oh, I believe ya, just want to see. No bastids going out there to visit ya, especially in summer! __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

17th September 2009, 11:36 PM	#59
Q.Q. Mature tree Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Western QLD. Australia Posts: 282	Re: Do termites kill trees? Ha ha ha well by that last thread Ekka my friend it still sounded like disbeleive to my or was it just sarcasim yet again. You are in for a little treat my friend, guys I did take dows on two trees today, both with termites in them, and lucky for you I just happend to have the camera in the truck. The first lot of photo's is of a large Box Tree that are commom out here and always have no signs of anythink wrong until you start cutting, and find my little friends. The second is of a large CYPRESS PINE tree, that wasnt in good condition at all, with a large seam crack from two foot above the ground, up to the two main leaders. I had to chain the two together as they were moving backwards and forwards with me on them. Now after the trunk came crashing down it split in two, and guess what I found, termites. Now keep in mind that it was Cypress Pine, the termite resistant timber that they use in houses. One side of the tree was dead, but the other was healthy, go figure. And befor you say anything about trying to save it, it was fifteen meters from a school cross walk so I made the call for removel. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Q,Q's Tree & Garden Maintenance FAMILARITY BREEDS CONTEMPT

20th September 2009, 10:50 AM	#60
Eric Frei Admin - Razor sharp and independent 2 X Diploma Level 5 qualified arborist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,820	Re: Do termites kill trees? What is it you're suggesting I'm skeptical on? That termites dont eat sound wood, I know they do. That there's some decay or fungi first and termites follow that? Not always the case, but some opinions here are from outside Australia. That CSIRO quote above said they're heartwood eaters and 85% of trees are infected. Good pics, not much mud track up there. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

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