Do palms have rays?

Ekka · 8th January 2008, 05:41 PM

Well, since we are getting right down into it debating codit and authenticity of arborists qualifications and titles lets keep the momentum going.

Experience and time teaches a lot, I know I have done a 180 degree turn on some of the things I thought 5 years ago.

Now this is a good one. Normal trees like oaks, poplar, eucs etc are referred to as dicotyledons and palms are referred to as monocotyledons (dicots and moncots for short).

So, we know dicots generally have rays and they are part of the wall 3 defence system to wounding. They prevent radial spread.

Now imagine a palm cops a good whack from a car and a chunk of it missing. what prevents the radial spread of infection? Do they have rays?

And most of all how many walls of defense do they have in comparison to trees (dicots)?

newguy18 · 8th January 2008, 06:21 PM

i can't vote as I don't know for sure.Be something to look up though.

newguy18 · 8th January 2008, 07:38 PM

so i looked it up and it turns out that palms do have rays.
never mind i read it wrong my bad.

Stem & Root Anatomy

heres some more info on palms.

http://cemerced.ucdavis.edu/files/33828.pdf

Ekka · 8th January 2008, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

so i looked it up and it turns out that palms do have rays.

Stem & Root Anatomy

Interesting, I cant find that, could you put up the diagram or show a quote of the text. Oh, I see you edited whilst I was typing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

heres some more info on palms.

http://cemerced.ucdavis.edu/files/33828.pdf

I'm sorry to say but I really dont like this PDF. I dont care that it came from a university but it writes some old crap about transplanting palms ... stuff we have recent docs on showing it's not right.

Here we go on things that get me going.

Quote:

Because palms lack a woody taproot

As do most trees and talking like this is prehistoric!

Quote:

There is some controversy over how much leaf removal should occur when transplanting larger specimens. Ideally, it would be best to remove all leaves when transplanting palms to reduce water loss from transpiration. Although aesthetic considerations usually discourage this practice, you should remove all leaves from species that regenerate a new root system from the trunk base, such as Sabal palmetto. For species that resprout from cut roots, remove as much foliage as aesthetics will allow. At a minimum, remove the lower half of the crown and tie up the remaining leaves in the upper half of the crown with untreated, 4-ply, biodegradable twine. The twine will deteriorate naturally in several months to let the fronds unfold.

Wow, this is unreal, pay attention to the bolded stuff. Remove all leaves is the first line. Then for those that do resprout roots remove at a minimum all the lower leaves. Then tie them up and leave them tied till the twine breaks.

WTF. Now I read stuff like that from a university and think screw reading that section. It's just that section written by.

Quote:

Transplanting Palms
By Donald R. Hodel, UCCE Farm Advisor, Los Angeles County (Adapted from Turf Tales, 1997)

However that same bloke is on the document that debunks most those myths in this post (also see the PDF in this post) Palm Transplanting| Phoenix canariensis| Canary Island Date Palm in Brisbane dead?

newguy18 · 8th January 2008, 09:06 PM

This one doesn't mention rays either which would lead me to believe palms don't have rays but I'm here to learn and not teach so if I'm in anyway wrong someone correct me.
Palm Biology Research at Fairchild

Therrin · 8th January 2008, 10:53 PM

That guy's office is only about 30 mins drive from here Ekka, want me to give him a piece of your mind?

It'd be interesting at least to see what his rejoinder would be. I really don't know anything about this topic (similar to newguy, before he went and hunted up stuff) but it sucks that this guy apparently doesn't know what he's talking about, but because of his position people probably take his word for scripture; that and wouldn't question him on it. He's probably one of those Cali bureaucrats that never actually do any of the things they talk about.

Ekka · 8th January 2008, 11:28 PM

Well, he's on both documents sort of contradicting himself.

I think if he saw it he'd clean it up. Drop him a line or email him, just give him a link to the post.

matshute · 10th January 2008, 01:22 PM

Palms are monocots and have vesssels spaced randomly in a matrix of fibres.
They do not undergow normal secondary thickening so can not have rays as rays are cells running through annual growth rings.

View Poll Results: Do palms have rays?
Yes	1	12.50%
No	7	87.50%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

8th January 2008, 05:41 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,846	Do palms have rays? Well, since we are getting right down into it debating codit and authenticity of arborists qualifications and titles lets keep the momentum going. Experience and time teaches a lot, I know I have done a 180 degree turn on some of the things I thought 5 years ago. Now this is a good one. Normal trees like oaks, poplar, eucs etc are referred to as dicotyledons and palms are referred to as monocotyledons (dicots and moncots for short). So, we know dicots generally have rays and they are part of the wall 3 defence system to wounding. They prevent radial spread. Now imagine a palm cops a good whack from a car and a chunk of it missing. what prevents the radial spread of infection? Do they have rays? And most of all how many walls of defense do they have in comparison to trees (dicots)? __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

8th January 2008, 06:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,612	Re: Do palms have rays? i can't vote as I don't know for sure.Be something to look up though. __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

8th January 2008, 07:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,612	Re: Do palms have rays? so i looked it up and it turns out that palms do have rays. never mind i read it wrong my bad. Stem & Root Anatomy heres some more info on palms. http://cemerced.ucdavis.edu/files/33828.pdf __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related Last edited by newguy18 : 8th January 2008 at 08:13 PM.

8th January 2008, 09:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Live Oak Florida home of the crapiest trees you will ever see. Posts: 2,612	Re: Do palms have rays? This one doesn't mention rays either which would lead me to believe palms don't have rays but I'm here to learn and not teach so if I'm in anyway wrong someone correct me. Palm Biology Research at Fairchild __________________ Have your say join us today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzfzb...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-OqK...eature=related

8th January 2008, 10:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
Therrin The Tree World Bandit Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster, Ca Posts: 1,254	Re: Do palms have rays? That guy's office is only about 30 mins drive from here Ekka, want me to give him a piece of your mind? It'd be interesting at least to see what his rejoinder would be. I really don't know anything about this topic (similar to newguy, before he went and hunted up stuff) but it sucks that this guy apparently doesn't know what he's talking about, but because of his position people probably take his word for scripture; that and wouldn't question him on it. He's probably one of those Cali bureaucrats that never actually do any of the things they talk about. __________________ Ken Fessia I.T.S.A. Tree Service (661) 916-4703

8th January 2008, 11:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ekka Eric Frei Administrator - Brisbane L5 (Dip) Hort Cert III Arb + some Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 6,846	Re: Do palms have rays? Well, he's on both documents sort of contradicting himself. I think if he saw it he'd clean it up. Drop him a line or email him, just give him a link to the post. __________________ Remember to use the "search" function, if you have answers/questions post them so everyone can benefit. Free Tree and Green Industry Link Directory Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping Brisbane Tree Care, Consultations and Arborist Reports Forum Sponsors

10th January 2008, 01:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
matshute Sappling Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 13	Re: Do palms have rays? Palms are monocots and have vesssels spaced randomly in a matrix of fibres. They do not undergow normal secondary thickening so can not have rays as rays are cells running through annual growth rings.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode