In the dark...

j4o6s2h · 15th December 2010, 02:51 PM

Hey all,

A little bit frustrated today,

I'm not quite sure if i'm getting a rough deal here or not but here goes.

I started working for a tree surgery company in Canberra in July of 2009.

I was told that as a ground crew I needed to get an ABN, Public liablity insurance and all the appropriate PPE and I would start on Contracting rates of $26 per/hr - $2 per/hr tool hire. Seemed like a pretty good deal at the time, so I took it.

As of Christmas last year our climber left leaving only the boss as a climber for the company (this is a small company of 4 workers, 2 climbers 2 ground crew).

The boss then asked me to start climbing for him, I asked if I needed any relevant certificates or qualifications, He answered 'No, I will train you on the job, that is all you need to be a climber, just leave the power line work to me'

I have been climbing for him ever since for $31 per/hr - $2 per/hr tool hire, which seemed pretty good as I was taking home roughly $1000 per week.

Tax time rolls around and I haven't saved a cent (which is my own fault).

Today I went to an Actew AGL certification class so that i could work with powerlines and people are telling me that i'm getting screwed. 'Youre better off on wages at $25 per/hr then all your tax is paid for and you dont pay insurance ect ect' one guy told me.

So I guess my question is this:
Am I getting screwed here?

Contractor
On $31 per/hr - $2 per/hr tool hire
Pay $900 roughly a year for Insurance
No sick pay, No Annual leave (two weeks off over Christmas unpaid)
No Super, Pay my own tax and everything else that comes with being a contractor.

Am I better off asking for wages? At what rates? What conditions?

I am so in the dark here as no one tells me ANYTHING!!
Just work, Get Paid, Go Home.

Sorry for the long post but any help would be great cheers.

Apocalypsse · 15th December 2010, 03:34 PM

LoL tool hire. Sounds like your boss is real lazy, soo lazy he doesn't want to staff his company properly, probably works out cheaper for him to have you as contractors instead. Work out your wages after tax, insurance and super contributions, it will probably be a lot less than what the norm is. You would be better off as Casual $25ph.

j4o6s2h · 15th December 2010, 03:56 PM

But is $25 a standard rate?

I remember asking him for wages and he said he would consider it, problem is, i don't think he knows what the conditions of wages are...overtime, leave all that stuff.

At the end of the day, I'm going to have to come to him with conditions and pay rates... seems like i'm the boss here sometimes.

I guess I'm just asking what other climbers are getting so I can go to him and tell him what I want without being unreasonable.

Jeff Darby · 15th December 2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j4o6s2h

But is $25 a standard rate?

I remember asking him for wages and he said he would consider it, problem is, i don't think he knows what the conditions of wages are...overtime, leave all that stuff.

At the end of the day, I'm going to have to come to him with conditions and pay rates... seems like i'm the boss here sometimes.

I guess I'm just asking what other climbers are getting so I can go to him and tell him what I want without being unreasonable.

mmm, good question, I would have to say no @ $25. employee =$ 30 to 35 p/hr is starting to get to the ball park...but remember a bird in hand..

Apocalypsse · 15th December 2010, 06:17 PM

Call Fair Work, they'll know what the conditions are and all that jazz.

JayD, tell me those companies that pay that much so I can go apply. Mid 20s seems to be the norm from what I've seen so far, mix of casual/full time.

Garry Brockley · 15th December 2010, 06:26 PM

Yes $25 to $30 for casual but thats on the books they pay your tax and super thats how it works in brissy as far as iv'e seen, as a subby you are responsible for your own ins ect you should be on high thirties as a climber at least unless your crap then $30 it fine,

Jeff Darby · 15th December 2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalypsse

Call Fair Work, they'll know what the conditions are and all that jazz.

JayD, tell me those companies that pay that much so I can go apply. Mid 20s seems to be the norm from what I've seen so far, mix of casual/full time.

There's a mob up here actually paying $42 p/hr for climbers...at the time I saw this ad they were after..I think around 9 Arbs

Apocalypsse · 15th December 2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayD

There's a mob up here actually paying $42 p/hr for climbers...at the time I saw this ad they were after..I think around 9 Arbs

Obviously I'm in the wrong state.

Jeff Darby · 15th December 2010, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayD

There's a mob up here actually paying $42 p/hr for climbers...at the time I saw this ad they were after..I think around 9 Arbs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalypsse

Obviously I'm in the wrong state.

Yeah maybe ? but this is the first time I have seen this type of money on offer....wish I was fit enough to be able to climb..ohwell...

TrevMcRev · 15th December 2010, 09:04 PM

Do you know if that was Full Time JayD?

Thats $85-90K per year so with super & workcover that employee is costing the co over $100K. So near on a million bucks for the 9 people they want....They'd want to be damn productive at that.

As a subby it's not a lot though. $45-55 per hr here for someone good is normal.

Jeff Darby · 15th December 2010, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevMcRev

Do you know if that was Full Time JayD?

Thats $85-90K per year so with super & workcover that employee is costing the co over $100K. So near on a million bucks for the 9 people they want....They'd want to be damn productive at that.

As a subby it's not a lot though. $45-55 per hr here for someone good is normal.

full time...

Eric Frei · 21st December 2010, 06:21 PM

Probably 1 climber per crew, could be multiple crews.

What do many charge for a 3 man crew, truck & chipper per hour? Approx $220 to $300

What do many charge for a 4 man crew, truck and chipper per hour? Approx $275 to $400

In scenario 1 what is the labour cost? Under $100/hour

In scenario 2 what is the labour cost? Under $130/hour

Boss is making money no worries.... still has a callout ontop too.

pukunui · 23rd January 2011, 09:56 PM

The other thing you have to consider is that he probably doesn't have worker compo for you either.
So if you get injured you are screwed if you don't have your own cover for that.

You may find that technically you are an employee (i can't remember who determines it, maybe workcover or dept' fairtrade or tax office) regardless of your agreement because of certain conditions they have to determine your status.
So you may even be able to claim back dated super and he would be required to withhold tax, pay super, provide PPE and have workers compo/public liab insurance for you.

Sounds to me like your boss is getting a better deal out of it.

15th December 2010, 02:51 PM	#1
j4o6s2h Sappling Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 12	In the dark... Hey all, A little bit frustrated today, I'm not quite sure if i'm getting a rough deal here or not but here goes. I started working for a tree surgery company in Canberra in July of 2009. I was told that as a ground crew I needed to get an ABN, Public liablity insurance and all the appropriate PPE and I would start on Contracting rates of $26 per/hr - $2 per/hr tool hire. Seemed like a pretty good deal at the time, so I took it. As of Christmas last year our climber left leaving only the boss as a climber for the company (this is a small company of 4 workers, 2 climbers 2 ground crew). The boss then asked me to start climbing for him, I asked if I needed any relevant certificates or qualifications, He answered 'No, I will train you on the job, that is all you need to be a climber, just leave the power line work to me' I have been climbing for him ever since for $31 per/hr - $2 per/hr tool hire, which seemed pretty good as I was taking home roughly $1000 per week. Tax time rolls around and I haven't saved a cent (which is my own fault). Today I went to an Actew AGL certification class so that i could work with powerlines and people are telling me that i'm getting screwed. 'Youre better off on wages at $25 per/hr then all your tax is paid for and you dont pay insurance ect ect' one guy told me. So I guess my question is this: Am I getting screwed here? Contractor On $31 per/hr - $2 per/hr tool hire Pay $900 roughly a year for Insurance No sick pay, No Annual leave (two weeks off over Christmas unpaid) No Super, Pay my own tax and everything else that comes with being a contractor. Am I better off asking for wages? At what rates? What conditions? I am so in the dark here as no one tells me ANYTHING!! Just work, Get Paid, Go Home. Sorry for the long post but any help would be great cheers.

15th December 2010, 03:34 PM	#2
Apocalypsse Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,152	Re: In the dark... LoL tool hire. Sounds like your boss is real lazy, soo lazy he doesn't want to staff his company properly, probably works out cheaper for him to have you as contractors instead. Work out your wages after tax, insurance and super contributions, it will probably be a lot less than what the norm is. You would be better off as Casual $25ph.

15th December 2010, 03:56 PM	#3
j4o6s2h Sappling Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 12	Re: In the dark... But is $25 a standard rate? I remember asking him for wages and he said he would consider it, problem is, i don't think he knows what the conditions of wages are...overtime, leave all that stuff. At the end of the day, I'm going to have to come to him with conditions and pay rates... seems like i'm the boss here sometimes. I guess I'm just asking what other climbers are getting so I can go to him and tell him what I want without being unreasonable.

15th December 2010, 06:17 PM	#5
Apocalypsse Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,152	Re: In the dark... Call Fair Work, they'll know what the conditions are and all that jazz. JayD, tell me those companies that pay that much so I can go apply. Mid 20s seems to be the norm from what I've seen so far, mix of casual/full time.

15th December 2010, 06:26 PM	#6
Garry Brockley Bayside Tree Care Brisbane Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,641	Re: In the dark... Yes $25 to $30 for casual but thats on the books they pay your tax and super thats how it works in brissy as far as iv'e seen, as a subby you are responsible for your own ins ect you should be on high thirties as a climber at least unless your crap then $30 it fine, __________________ My business:- Brisbane Bayside Tree Care

15th December 2010, 09:04 PM	#10
TrevMcRev Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 1,594	Re: In the dark... Do you know if that was Full Time JayD? Thats $85-90K per year so with super & workcover that employee is costing the co over $100K. So near on a million bucks for the 9 people they want....They'd want to be damn productive at that. As a subby it's not a lot though. $45-55 per hr here for someone good is normal.

21st December 2010, 06:21 PM	#12
Eric Frei Admin - Owner Palm & Tree Services in Brisbane Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 12,994	Re: In the dark... Probably 1 climber per crew, could be multiple crews. What do many charge for a 3 man crew, truck & chipper per hour? Approx $220 to $300 What do many charge for a 4 man crew, truck and chipper per hour? Approx $275 to $400 In scenario 1 what is the labour cost? Under $100/hour In scenario 2 what is the labour cost? Under $130/hour Boss is making money no worries.... still has a callout ontop too. __________________ Protect your rights to work - Join Australian Tree Association My businesses:- Qualified Brisbane Palm and Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane \| Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist

23rd January 2011, 09:56 PM	#13
pukunui Sappling Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 33	Re: In the dark... The other thing you have to consider is that he probably doesn't have worker compo for you either. So if you get injured you are screwed if you don't have your own cover for that. You may find that technically you are an employee (i can't remember who determines it, maybe workcover or dept' fairtrade or tax office) regardless of your agreement because of certain conditions they have to determine your status. So you may even be able to claim back dated super and he would be required to withhold tax, pay super, provide PPE and have workers compo/public liab insurance for you. Sounds to me like your boss is getting a better deal out of it.

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