Controversial pruning on protected trees Durack Primary School - QBuild

Eric Frei

Was driving past Durack Primary School when the sight of the large topped tree almost burned a hole through my retina!

I rang Brisbane City Council prior to entering the school to ask about any protection orders at the school.

Yes, SNV (significant native vegetation) for the entire property. Then asked if there were any permits for tree works issued last 3 months, NO was the answer. BCC ref 23450466

Dropped into the school and was told work done perhaps 4 weeks to 6 weeks ago arranged by Q-Build.

Was given phone to Q-Build and received the usual drill of mind your own business. Officer was unaware of any protection orders, in fact claimed they weren't told so how are they supposed to know!

The story I heard was school requests pruning of tree, Q-Build arrange 3 tree loppers to quote it, end of story.

I asked who wrote out the pruning specification and decides what gets pruned etc? I asked if the "tree loppers" get a spec sheet or just quote what they thinks best? I asked why the silkyoak was topped?

Didn't get any answers but was told that they dont answer to me and dont like the tone of the call. Typical.

So, 3 tree companies all dont know the rules, Q-Build dont know the rules, unknowns at the school prescribe tree works, gee ...

... are you noticing the same broken record emanating here? Last time it was 660 Kessels road in this thread, here we are again, nothing changed except these trees are protected.

Now I have a letter on my desk from the BCC Lord Mayor's Office and from Q-Build's office about the last fiasco. So, looks like I'll be writing again commencing with an email to BCC VPO officers to investigate.

Lets see what happens here, I wonder if anyone gets fined?

The 3 last pictures are a gum in the playground area that was topped a few years back, I guess around 1998 to 2001 region judging by the growth. I wonder what management plans are in place for that ever present hazard.





Topped gum with a playground beneath it!

Attached Thumbnails

           

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Steve Tipton

Hi Ekka,
I had no idea that rough tree work was so rife in Qld! I take it that Q Build is Qld public works dept?
In NSW the DPW&S (now dept of Commerce) requires that all works be carried out to the relevant Aus Standard as a minimum and that all relevant industry codes of practice are adhered to in every trade. Most contract organisers and works inspectors are aware of at least the basic necessity to prune to collars etc.
looks like there's a great need for public education up there!
Steve

Eric Frei

Before one can educate and learn they must create acceptance of information rather than challenge your rights to question.

You find a great many here ready to gob off with their vast pool of ignorance.

Then they dig in, create some reasoning for their defence and most importantly seek allies as there's safety in numbers. Pack mentality.

I dare say it would be public record who did this job, however be assured the company that did it would be proud of it, and proud to not have even enquired it was protected, and they my friend are prolific contractors to Q-Build. You have even witnessed so called "qualified arborists" topping trees.

I am not surprised as I know, I live here, I hear the crap daily, I have customers ring and inform me of malpractices. The job I did around the corner from that school the customer asked if pruning like that was OK?

People are bamboozled here as the trees on govt land display abominations the general public has difficulty accepting as right.

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Eric Frei

Copy of email sent to Minister of Public Works office. They responded to previous case so have tacked this to it as all falls into the same bucket. Was also CC'd to Lord Mayors office.

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Drouin Tree Service

How a goverment dept can get away with that astounds me!

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Drouin Tree Services | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland | Landclearing Melbourne

TrevMcRev

This is pretty bad. At a school too. How many parents are gonna see that and think "well the school would surely be doing the right thing so we better get our trees at home done too"

pomme

exactly the same problems over here.

Eric Frei

NEWS FLASH!

Today I received a phone call from the Brisbane City Council environmental section telling me that they have no authority on State or Commonwealth land. Their vegetation protection orders are a toothless tiger.

Although they have protection orders they cannot enforce anything or do anything.

As State Schools are State land no trees are protected by council laws.

I was advised to contact the State Government about the matter which I did.

I rang the number right at the very bottom of the this page of the Dept of Natural Resources.

Regional vegetation management codes

I was then told to ring the Ipswich office as Brisbane area is looked after by them.

I rang that office and reception put me through to Danny, who put me through to Doreen who put me through to Melissa who took a message for some-one to call me.

So far 5 people and no-one knows anything about tree rules in State properties such as schools. Doreen did mention that the schools could also be leased by the Education dept and that could affect things.

So I'm waiting, might shoot off an email to if zero back in 24 hours. From the outside looking in looks like there'll be a big fat ZERO protection, if that's the case then we need to go to our State politician as well as write to Premier Beatty.

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TREE-SURFER

Sounds a bit like "ONE RULE FOR 'US' AND ANOTHER ONE FOR 'THEM'"

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The Aerial Arborist

Isle of Man Tree Surgeon| All Aspects of Tree Work

What experts say about TOPPING

Sean Freeman

The variation in influence of tree protection across different land tenures and ownership is a common problem all over the world, certainly not unique to Qld. Seems to me the real issue is how best to encourage large companies and corporations to adopt the very same BMP's for the management of their vegetation/tree assets as they implement and demand in the management of their built assets.

For me getting to explain to regional asset management what modern Arboriculture can offer in terms they can easily understand and appreciate is the task at hand. As I've stated before QBuild is a very large organisation, they are divided up into regional business units and futher divided within each region. Despite all the potential and actual structural problems from our perspective within their organisation the opportunity still exists to help them move beyond this kind of destructive, costly and substandard tree work.
It is a slow, and at times frustrating process but our own National Standards do exist, other states have codes of practice, WH&S is gradually getting things moving....BMP's and the value for money spent they represent are increasingly hard to ignore, I'm confident things will change in our state..even up North.

Eric Frei

A guy called Daryl left message yesterday 4.10pm got message today thanks Optus

Bit of message leaving BS ping pong and finally got hold of him.

State govt rules, not sure, generally the State Govt is concerned about remnant vegetation and generally greater than 1 hectare in size.

Asked about individual trees, waterways etc ... nothing according to them however there is some info that may help if you wish to research the 500page+ legeslative documents.

There you go, load of shit I knew it would be.

Unworkable, uncoordinanted, no logical laid out protection orders, no blanket protection orders ... basically they're just worried about land clearing.

What a joke.

He did say though that Australian Standards of pruning and any other relative state or federal rules/laws need to be up held.

So, ultimately there's no rule as to who can assess, diagnose or work on a tree, you got tree loppers advising ignorants about tree care, as there's no rules.

And they reckon this is the smart state.

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treeseer

Very productive approach. Attacking and criticizing may be understandable, but where does it get you? Attacked and criticized back,most likely.

The pic of the silk oak--Grevillea?-- is a real gut-wrencher.

Dissecting a failed tree due to loptopping would be powerful evidence of a reason to change. So would highlighting the effects of standard-compliant tree care.

Eric Frei

Have directed this thread to legal people who confirmed as below.

It appears, we have an inadequate system. The Council know it and so do wise tree people, problem is getting it changed.

Here's what I found of the State Laws

http://www.nrw.qld.gov.au/vegetation...ode_nov_06.pdf

I have written to relevant people regarding the anomolies and await their response, fact is, it's a botch up.

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JohN Dee

So wait, what about NSW and all the other states and territory's?

The TPO's down here are constructed or cited by the local council - not all have them. Does this mean our TPO's don't cover our schools too, seeing how they are owned by the state government?

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Eric Frei

Highly likely.

Just got confirmation today from another council that they have ZERO say over State or Commonwealth land (they call it crown land).

If it's a private school they have a say, if it's state school, no say.

You guys need to check this out in Sydney, ask your council if they have jurisdiction over crown land (state or Commonwealth), frankly I doubt they do.

Yes, it's a big can of worms.

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treeseer

A big crack, through which a lot of trees can fall. Governments are quick to avoid responsibility by passing the buck on to other agencies. The local could dam well assert control if they chose to--they surely would if there was money to be had. That buckpassing has the side benefit (to them) of giving concerned concerned citizens the runaround, so only those with stamina see these issues through.

Do you guys have stamina?

justoon

Ekka,I totally agree with-you.But now this in itself lays a larger business problem that starts to appear.Tree company A recieves call to give quote to dead wood and prune trees.Arrives on site speaks to relevent person who states that they want it topped.Company A says no can't do that because of relevant standards but can do it this way.Price gets handed in.Company B rolls in says yep we will do as you ask and give quote to top tree.Company B wins contract as they are doing exactly what is being asked of them even though it is not to the relevant standard.Hands in quote and wins.( normally B is also cheaper for some unknown reason as well and i cant work that one out either) So Company A who is trying to do the right thing loses the work unless there is someone within the oraganization that they are quoting for who has an ounce of tree experience and is aware of the relevant standards.So you would ASSUME that councils and QBUILD would have this but it is not always nessercerily so.

Ill hop of the soap box now

thank-you

Eric Frei

Issue is that no suitable report or spec is written and we should not have to quote the janitors perception of what is required.

When tree work is requested a suitably qualified arborist writes a report or the specs which then get quoted on. That arborist can be in house Q-Build or drawn upon from council or private sector.

Then all companies quote the same spec.

I have worked for Q-Build in the past and for various locations (State owned). The first and foremost error is you are quoting for either a person at the premises who does ask for topping etc or some-one in the office who similarly doesn't have much of an idea (except removals).

On the Gold COast Q-Build doesn't do didley to trees without arborist report, council have them towing the line.

Then lets say the arborist (as we have seen there are some) recommends some BS topping rubbish and the company does it per spec ... then the arborist is in deep shit ... and so is the company for delivering BS.

Would a builder knowingly and purposefully build you a premise that wasn't to engineering standard just coz you asked for it? Of course not, so the companies always have to do the right thing and if the spec is wrong then the companies quoting need to point that out.

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Sean Freeman

Eric's right where there are standard like AS4373-2007 thats what should make it impossible for unqualified unskilled operators to damage trees, and this is the line in the sand over which all of us can make a stand. Sub-standard work is not acceptable the insurers won't accept or cover it, the larger businesses won't (or blooming well shouldn't ) condone it since it is outside their own ingrained model of policies and procedures standards and practices. LGA's certainly should not have a bar of it since it contradicts almost every aspect of their documented standards of service delivery to their customers---all of us!!!

Where standards don't exist here in Oz then the default position just like any other industry/profession is best practice..for us worlds best practice with over 100yrs of getting there in the Arb standards coming out of UK and USA, they cover almost every concievable aspect of tree care.

As Guy said (or to paraphrase him) choose your fights carefully and be prepared to out wit, out smart but most importantly out last your opponents..stamina is the key, change is happening its just darned slow.

Eric Frei

Bloody slow around here!

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Sean Freeman

Yes thats a fair call Eric.

justoon

how about at a snails pace.I agree that it SHOULD NOT HAPPEN but at times it does otherwise Ekka would not have anything to complain about .None of us can deny that we have not run into it before.If it did not happen then this thread would not have started in the first place.