Cockatoo damaged limbs

newguy18

can you guys shoot them or something?are they protected?

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old schooler

Eric Frei

Everything is protected, even crap Ibis and Indian Mynas, that's what happens when a pack of pencil pushing soft asses run the joint.

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Sean Freeman

I don't think I'd want to eat Ibis round here they live off the refuse at the tip...YUK...Mynas have less meat than pidgeons.

Eric Frei

When I was a kid starlings were a pest and I had a slug gun.

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dguntertrees

Back in Melbourne, cockies ate our Christmas lights...bulbs and all! Also the deck rail.

On the other hand, how many trees with hollows d'you see around SE Queensland? Hollow bearing trees are a MAJOR habitat for a huge number of native birds and mammals..we (for we all bear responsibility) should be encouraging their retention. Even if its not the cockies primary goal to create hollows, its still a result of their work and should be encouraged, not restricted (in the right place of course). If this tree has reached full maturity, then why not let it senesce as it would have done without human interference? Can it be fenced off? Maybe a combination of fencing/fall arrest and promotion/retention as a feature tree?
Seeing trees as ecosystems in their own right, as well as part of a larger ecological framework is something that we all need to take on board. It may not be entirely suitable in this instance, but how long can we keep on saying that? Until all the trees on development sites are gone? Theres always a case for removal if you can find someone to write it up.

Sean Freeman

You're absolutely right Dave, deadwood and hollow bearing trees are increasingly scarce and the impact is severe on our ecosystems.
Of couse context is critical, where the tree is the environment it is in etc... but i entirely agree too many of us let it slide in our writing when we should be taking every opportunity to highlight the importance of these aspects of trees in the wider environment.

From my perspective we have a role alongside other professionals in this, we can aid them in being successful in working towards more self sustaining environments, whether that is a pocket park, green space, median strip or whatever....our understandiong of native species options, growth expectations, known problems and advantages...combined with for many of us experience of alternative approaches to many tree/building/built area conflicts is priceless (though I urge you all to put a price on it....one that provides adequate earnings)

For the Aussies and others who are interested there was a presenter at the ISAAC conference in Brissy Phillip Gibbons who has written a great book on the topic of Tree Hollows and wildlife conservation in Australia..it has some researched data that will perhaps surprise many of you...31% of our mammals use large hollows as part of their breeding biology and shelter nesting requirements.


Its down to us as to just how informed we want to be and then what we do with that information...

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treeseer

A tree in a private theme park in CT with a hollow branch that housed wood ducks fell, killing a boy as he held his mother's hand. The tree was not being managed for habitat; it was just overlooked.

A good alternative here is nest boxes mounted in the tree by arborists.

Eric Frei

Here you go.

Nesting boxes.

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newguy18

I usually remove trees if it has heart rot even early on since it seems to spread like wild fire down here,i removed 2 ead oaks the had heart rot and a third one that had intertwined roots with them has heart rot now?just a coincidence or can it be spread through the root system?

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Robert STAVROU

G'day guys,
one of the photos looked like it showed a crescent shaped exit hole (longicorn) cockatoos can hear them and chase them with determination, that particular photo seemed to have reasonable callous tissue around the wound.
Unlikely that the tree has significant age to be considered for habitat preparation by birds (unless nesting boxes are utilized).
You may have the potential to remove the smaller branches and thus decrease the wound area.
My issue with the use 'static systems' e.g. Cobra even though they are a marvellous improvement; is that may indicate that there is an issue (in the legal sense); and I have reservations with cabling and bracing unless designed by a mechanical engineer (Matheck)

regards to all

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STAV

Sean Freeman

Robert I have not found that recommending the installation of either static or dynamic fall arrest systems alters the degree of professional liability I am exposed to in undertaking any consultancy. I do understand why you express concern and have heard others at times voice similar concerns.
All i can say to you is that cabling systems, like any other form of risk management that does not eliminate the risk (ie remove the tree), demands recognition that a failure (in this case the limbs with the damage at the union) can still occur. Provided our recommendations when followed effectively reduce the outcome of such a failure to a degree that meets the benchmark of the limit of acceptable risk imposed on others in the community...there is no legal minefield. Controlling targets under trees is generally what it comes down to.

As for getting a mechanical engineer to sign off on any single specific tree based (anchored) cabling system...hmmm good luck, if you find one send me their details! Trees and living wood by its nature tends not to conform to the models that mechanical engineers have to use in their calculations. There has been some very beneficial work done through various groups envolved in properly documented and managed tree pulling that will stand up (with significant caveats!) to the most detailed scrutiny.

It will always come down to qualified Arborists to bring together an understanding of both the breadth of knowledge and experience in managing the dynamic system that trees are, but also the significant gaps in our understanding and knowledge. There isn't any other profession that is willing or able to implement appropriate management for trees such as the one in this thread...IMO.

As always living with trees demands an acceptance of some risk, reasonable and practicable management may dictate a documented ongoing process of monitoring at an agreed frequency (this can and does vary according to circumstances) Cabling (when undertaken appropriately) is part of the same process of managing risk as undertaking regular visual inspections, no more no less....we would all do well to remind ourselves of that the next time we rush through a VTA.

Robert STAVROU

thankyou for such a succinct professional response (that even I could understand and contemplate) Your points are indeed valid. Please remind me if we ever meet to buy you a beer! (or two)

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STAV

Sean Freeman

You have a deal on that one

Eric Frei

On todays job a cockatoo perched on this palm and started chewing the flowers off.

I watched with a keen eye and it didn't eat anything, just crunched off bits leaving a mess then flew off.

All in a days work I suppose.

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Sean Freeman

It must be a pleasurable sensation for them I guess, chomping through chunks of vegetation...they sure can make one hell of a mess.

treeseer

Sean, your analysis of liability echoes what we see here in the US.

Heart rot is a natural part of ageing and is seldom a cause for alarm or removal. Trees shed what they no longer need.

dguntertrees

I'm sure Eric would sympathise

newguy18

yeah they only seem to shed,heart wood,big limbs,tops,no need for alarm really.I've only ever met one person down here who was even intrested in cableing the tree to save it but later asked me to remove it.People are cheap around here.

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Eric Frei

LOL, I think this pic best describes my thoughts.

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treeseer

If cabling is cheaper than removal, why would a cheap person choose removal?

Kapow? Itchy trigger finger?

Eric Frei

Oooo, oooh, pick me pick me.

In the immediate instance cabling may well be cheaper, however it needs to be checked and maintained ... so does the rest of the tree. Where as removal is finite, problem solved forever.

In the long term the management of rotten trees costs a lot more than removal. It's often an alternative local govts, parks etc use as they dont have true clients and competition and usually an allocated budget. Some rich clients also choose to manage their trees but many people do consider that the problem to a degree is still there.

It is with exactly with this reasoning I cut down so many palms.

Goes like this, to clean is $80 and to remove $180 ... however you have to clean every 9 months. As you can see many people opt for the removal and replant something that doesn't require maintenance.

I'm sure if the rot is localized to a specific limb etc NG18 would deal with that, but from what I am starting to see in these pics trees full of rot all over, well, that's a whole different story.

Personally, I'd like to see more pics of what goes on with trees there. I frankly dont get rotters like that, get more sort of localized damage that can be dealt with.

Interesting though, there's no absolute right/wrong just an understanding of opinions and choices.

Just today I drove past a site, maybe 2 acres on the side of 3rd ave Marsden. Had lots of large eucs with hollows. The whole lot was dozed, a scorched earth policy, I must admit I was pissed off seeing that and not 1 tree saved. Thats Logan council. Try that a few Km's away in Brisbane it's a different story.

Such is the business and the torment for arborists. For this cockatoo tree if it were 10km's east and in Logan council ... no protection orders and it would be dozed.

So much for a smart state! Local govts cant even get together let alone state depts and fed depts. I see this tree industry as an infinite mess with as much BS in govt as cowboys in the business.

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newguy18

treeseer, this is the inevitable when trying to save rotten or unsafe trees.
Stanford's last historic tree dies - San Jose Mercury News

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old schooler

Eric Frei

Interesting article.
Some more.

tree_story

Time has come for Stanford's last officially certified historic tree

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fosheezy

yo trev i'm from upwey and i can absolutely 100% confirm that!!! lol.

we've got a Corymbia maculata in our front yard and every now and then the tree is literally full of them, probably 50-100 birds. They snip 15cm off the tip of every stem and of course go nuts in the crotches. I also remember a few years ago i planted about 20 tubetock plants around the garden and the next day i came out and they had snipped most of them off at ground level... bloody vandals those cockies.

Eric Frei

Hey, keep your camera handy and how bad are the crotches? Any limb failures yet?

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treeseer

branches look solid in that stanford tree. and i do not see any support systems.

fosheezy

sorry i can't take pics im stuck in new zealand at the moment, wish i could cause i'd love to have seen that report on the news... i wonder if my house was on tv! lol.

no limb failures yet but i too noticed that no callus tissue seems to be forming, so not sure whats up with that. an arb mate reckoned they sharpen their beaks in the crotches... seems plausible.

newguy18

You really think a support system could have saved that tree?

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treeseer

Can you sit in FL, with limited experience with support systems, and mock the possibility?

Thimk before you

Eric Frei

What's wrong with saying it's old and rotten and time to go ... such is the cycle of trees.

I suppose could always whip it down to some defoliated 20' high stump, kill it, then call it a monument.

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