Climbing palms without spurs

Knotahippie

Was wondering how many folks climb palms or other types of trees using webbing, or...?

I used to spur up palms all the time, recently I switched to 1" tubular webbing slings, girth hitched.

I found it pretty easy, the key is the length of the slings.

Went to a conference couple years back and heard L.A. palm guru, Jim Downer speak about palms.

The vascular bundles don't compartmentalize like trees. Hooking palms may interupt vasular flow by possibly creating decayed areas.

Sometimes these holes turn black on palms that have been skinned up, creating an aesthetic issue.

Slings are alot cheaper than hooks too.

Hearing all that got me to at least try it out.

How 'bout SRT to get into palms?

One thing I found most alarming were some old reports of entire palm skirts coming loose and crushing/suffocating climbers using hook n' flipline tech.

Ain't nothin' like the the wrong system in the wrong place, eh?

Eric Frei

I like to sterilize my spurs with round-up prior to going up the palms.




Just kidding.

Get some pics and video of you doing it with webbing please.

Also see Seriously considering buying these| baumvelo climbers| Palm climbers

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newguy18

You do it to?

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old schooler

Eric Frei

Yeah, I'll sell some to Guy and say it's wound paint.

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OutofMytree

Frankly I think palms are sado-masochists who like a good bit of "spurring" now and then just to spice up their otherwise dull lives.

Eric Frei

That's what I reckon, a good aeration and tickle really turns them on!

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newguy18

Awww,see Ekka just loves palms,in fact hes starting a palm sancutary.

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old schooler

Knotahippie

This is how I do it (girth hitchn' slings)...

...Unfortunatley, I can't afford hooks...I only make $1 a day...

pickin' coconuts...

Don't let my stinky feet distract ya'll from the point here.

By standing in slings this way, I can work hands free, without leaning on the other sling/safety/flipline.

This has HUGE advantages in "no hook" tech, setting ropes, climbing slippery sections, or palms etc...

It's somthing I've adapted from aid/rock climbing tech. guru, Ron Olevsky.

He calls it "T-ing Off".

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newguy18

I'll stick with my spurs.I keep a set of pole gaffs strictly for palms or thin barked hardwoods.I advise you make an investment in spurs and i also recomend the caddy pads.You can find them here,
WesSpur Tree Equipment Homepage

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old schooler

Knotahippie

Classic...

I got a couple sets of hooks, but I dont use em' for pruning...period.

And I wasn't serious about the coconut pickin'.

I mainly spur/hook, hack and slash heritage oaks for a living (Not).

My most popular pruning style is lions tail combined with large heading cuts (Not)

I call it: strip n' hat rack style...

Eric Frei

You'll have to get some video. I want to see how fast it is and how you advance the slings and work with a chainsaw with feet flopping about.

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Knotahippie

Dang, sounds scary even to me when you say it like that Ekka!

Note the "T-ing off tech. that I pointed out. This is what keeps your feet stable.

I use a sharp handsaw most of the time pruning trees/palms.

I use a chainsaw in the tree about twice a month (lucky I guess).

I'll try to get some vid. this week but...hopefully I'll be looking at tree problems instead of climbing problem trees!

It looks trick, but it's not that hard and I kinda' like climbin' this way ($$$) even though it takes longer. It costs more to the client but the point is, no permanent holes in the stem.

If it was a removal, break out the Hooks, the 099 and the Howitzer and be done wit' it.

newguy18

Lucky you,about 90 percent of my work is removals.Mostly big oaks.

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old schooler

Knotahippie

So how does the permit process go where you're at in FL?

Its pretty hard to get permits here in the bay, anything over 6" and only with an arborist report.

By the way, you ever heard of the band Yellowcard? The lead singer/guitarist, Ryan Key used to be one of my housemates in here in CA.

newguy18

The only time you need a permit to do tree work where i'm at is if you have to close a road or if you have to use a crane.Any other time you just give a quote and do the work.Never heard of yellow card but thats cool man.

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Knotahippie

I love climbin' and chunkin' and all but it's pretty regulated out here.

It's kind of a bummer about the oaks not being protected where yer' at...

...Guess too many people like climbin' and chunkin' out here to have it unregulated!

about $1000 for a good fine!

Do ya'll prune using spurs?


...The reason I ask about Yellowcard is that there originally from FL.

I never listened much to their music, good musicians...

newguy18

The only thing i prune with spurs are palms.I guess its not really regulated here because heart and root rot are real bad in the oaks.Its actually pretty rare that i see oaks that are healthy around here,plus i'm one of 2 climbers in live everyone else just uses buckets.No real regs here and if your outside city limits you don't even need a license or insurance.This is one screwed up little town.

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Therrin

I'm down in SoCal, I've heard of Yellowcard... a couple of my friends I recall listened to them.

Back in the ol' days before I was "converted" and gave my life and my will over to the True Way of Things (well, in treecare anyway), I used to prune with spikes but Noooooooo more.

I had thought of using the straps before but hadn't run into a situation to do it yet. It looks sllooooooow and tiresome. Hmmm, interesting though.

Always nice to see a new way of doing things.

Knotahippie

Hollow/damaged trees aren't all bad, but can be no fun at all to climb. I got to look at a gnarly one today...I'll get some pics tommorow.


My brother still keeps in touch W/Ryan (Yellowcard).

I wasn't too impressed with the style of music, but real good musicians. I was more for metal or jamaican anyway.

I know what you mean not using the slings for girth hichin' very often.

Every once in a while I'll use em' to stand in just the right spot or to reach higher.

I always carry 3-4 double shoulder length when I climb though, footlock, false crotch, balance rig...the list goes on.

Eric Frei

No, you getting the wrong impression, every ones pretty good about it but when it's palms only then there's some variances. Trees are different, they're made of wood with branches.

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Knotahippie

That's cool,

I get it with the hooks thing...my uncle uses them alot, but he's 62 and busted up pretty bad!

If I had 100 palms to do, you might see me with a set on (not).

The only thing I worry about is that palms don't callus, it leaves a hole for the life of the palm.
Seems like a pretty good spot for disease/decay/organisms to vector.

And usually the spur marks are on one side of the stem, which in the long run may interupt vascular flow (rare) and/or cause structural weakness (doubt it).

Wilts worry me most.

This dosen't say anything about spurs, but check this info...

http://cemerced.ucdavis.edu/files/33829.pdf

newguy18

You also gotta remeber some of us hate palms.

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Knotahippie

Your palms or the customers?

The palms I hate are the hairy ones.

newguy18

I just have a dislike for all palms,i avoid cleaning them when i can.I'd much rather climb dead pine than palms.Didn't you see the pics of Ekkas corroed 440?

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Victor Lindsay

I see many palms with woody-wood pecker holes, no problem for the palm. Have you ever tried to hook into an old hole made from a spike? Hard as nails! Your correct, they don't compartmentalize, but something seals them off. jm2c

dannyboysfc

Good little bit of info in that link Knotahippie. It doesnt say anything about spiking palms, however those diseases it talks about can all be spread by spiking palm trees. I work mostly in the San Jose area where Fussarium wilt, pink rot, diamond scale and others are highly prevelant in palms, and if you dont dissinfect your spikes and saws between trees you are spreading it from tree to tree.

Knotahippie

No kidding, I hate workin' in palms too bro...dirty S##t, squirels, rats, pollution

About Ekkas post, no, where is it posted?


True, and I'm no palm pro, mainly I just think it looks bad.

and seems like pokin' holes can be bad for weak plants.

I should find out more about how palms defend themselves though.

Eric Frei

Unlike trees palms dont have heartwood, they're like 100% sapwood, conductive vascular bundles.

They dont have rays and they cannot wall4 a wound.

Now, put on your thinking cap.

A palm of say 15" dia compared to a tree of 15" dia. The tree only has a band on the outer perimiter that is vascular, a palm on the other hand is totally vascular. So a palm has a lot more jungle juice in it's system to fight pathogens.

Also palm sap can turn rather nasty quickly, it will eat away a chainsaw, so imagine what it does to fungi. There's palm wine and palm vinegar, all about time and fermentation.

Where a tree relies upon the sapwood and rays supply anti fungals to fight decay the palm is like a fire hose.

Palms can be strong compartmentalizers, depends of course on species and conditions. The best part about a palm is you cannot kill them by ring barking, just shows that even of you spiked the living crap out of one unlike a tree it wouldn't care a whole lot and there would still be a greater surface area of vascular tissue than a tree left.

What I find is a palms downfall is dry conditions, they need a lot of water to keep up there defences, in the drought here many died or decayed.

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Knotahippie

Cool Ekka,

Thanks for the palm bio. 101, pretty resilient buggers eh?

That chainsaw looks toasted! amazing how alkaline that saw dust is huh?

I remember cutting a bunch of yukka trees when I bought my first saw, was wearing a T-shirt and shorts...big mistake. I was itchin' for an hour at least!

I know that lawns are bad for trees, actually allelopathic too.

I wonder about palm toxicity and other plants?

Oh wait, maybe I shouldn't have said anything...might give you another reason to be a palm slayer!

Eric Frei

It's actually acidic, the sawdust is like wet lawn clippings and the dampness and sap gets into every nook and cranny. Some test were made on the pH level change and in the test over a 24hour period they found pH going as low as 3.0 to 3.5.

There's palms out also very itchy, have calcium oxlate crystals in them, generally monocarpic palms such as fishtail palms and malaysian sugar palms. Be careful, very itchy.


Seem very neutral, however what does occur in a garden situation is their dense matting roots simply take over and "constrict" other plants for soil and resources. If you have a garden full of palms try digging, you have to cut a hole for other plants with an axe.

Check out this thread with a video in the second post.

Palms around above ground pool

And check this out too.
Sugar Palm Crane Job| Monocarpic palm

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