Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues| NT school tree kills boy and were advised!

Ekka · 22nd February 2008, 06:47 PM

My kids go to this school and I go there daily.

Chatswood Hills State School

That's where we shot this video
School children climbing dead wooding display

They have a strong emphasis on the environment, however things have really been sliding over the last year.

Here's some shots of the way a couple of eucs were treated on the site.

The two eucs and the trench.

Here you can see the torn roots and how close they went to the trunk. You cannot see the pipe/conduit they layed as partially filled.

Just a distance shot showing the ht and poor taper, that's because they were sheltered in a group but the group is gone and now they are fringe trees.

Here the trench is filled and of course the job couldn't be complete without the good ole concrete, not that it matters anyway as all those roots are dead.

Just another angle but dont forget, not far to the left is concrete path so these trees got a top deal.

There'll be more to come, and yes, I have emailed the principal ... that's the new principal that reckons all is under control and wouldn't give me an ounce of time ... just fobbed me off, reckons Q-Build and the gardener know best.

So, I'm starting to record things, the previous principal was most approachable and used to care and I'd help out. We also did a gardening day there and took the Kanga, moved rocks around and mulched gardens, ground stumps etc, the new principal probably wouldn't even know that happened.

kimtree · 22nd February 2008, 10:05 PM

that's standard up here,not much regard given to trees by plumbers etc

TreeDimensional · 23rd February 2008, 10:21 AM

Ekka, thats interesting, I am a bit curious on a few points. The first thing is, is this a public or private school? The second issue is who is Q-build? And finally, does the groundskeeper (gardener) have any qualifications for consulting on such a job.

If this is a public school, I wonder why the principal is calling the shots on work that could have MAJOR consequences. Here is Saskatchewan, all the public schools are funded by the Provincial government. The facilities and their maintenance are over-seen by a Division school board, which employ caretakers/grounds keepers. There is always a superintendent for facilities, whose job is to over see the maintenance and improvements to the infrastructure. When there are issues that require special consideration, the work is either allocated to specialists in the area or region. Major works are usually tendered, which unfortunately goes to the lowest bidder.

I appears obvious to me that the contractor did not know OR care that the work they were doing was GOING to impact the existing trees. It is my understanding that these are remaining trees from a group. If this is the case, the first thing that should have been done is an inspection to access the viability and health of the trees, of course there should have been a risk assessment done at that time also. Now there MUST be a risk assessment done to protect the users of the facility, the kids are a more valuable asset that the building, but it needs to be protected also.

If the principal asked the gardener to oversee the project, I think she may be in for a rocky ride. She might be held liable for putting the building and the students at risk, if her employee (gardener) isn't qualified to access the site. The gardener, if not qualified, was acting like our competitors in the private sector, HE would be considered an uneducated hack. If he was qualified to supervise the job, he would be considered a lousy supervisor.

I should have waited for my first three questions to be answered, but sometimes we put things on the back burner, if they don't directly effect us. Three years ago we started our first school contract, it took several years of advising, calling, and lobbying, to convince the school division that they had some serious tree issues. The contract we have is renewed annually, and so far every year the volume of work has doubled.

Like Ekka, I accept every time I am asked to speak to or show the students something. I would like you all to think of me as a good guy for doing it, but the truth is I enjoy giving the little ones a glimpse of what tree work is about, but the real truth is when little Johnny or Jane go home and tell Mom and Dad what they saw when I was there, it generates business for me.

Whenever public safety is an issue, the management MUST look to the professionals for advice, failing to do so is a blatant disregard to the laws of the land.

Ekka · 23rd February 2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreeDimensional

Ekka, thats interesting, I am a bit curious on a few points. The first thing is, is this a public or private school? The second issue is who is Q-build? And finally, does the groundskeeper (gardener) have any qualifications for consulting on such a job.

1/ This is a public school.

2/ Q-Build, it's the public works dept. Sometimes the school just reports tree problems to them, they come out and have a look and decide a good topping or lopping and some butchery plus witchcraft is best. They dont use consulting arborists and have a great selection criteria for their hacking tree loppers that goes something like ... cheapest is best. At this school they sent out a OHS officer to assess trees and a few were cut down based on BS frankly, one in particular was cut down because it was close to buildings, that's it, very scientific.

Here's some other great performances from them.

QBuild at it again in Bundaberg?

http://www.treeworld.info/f9/arboris...cture-674.html

3/ The grounds keepers etc, certainly not qualifed! Now armed with a pole saw there's some great cuts going on. Soon after the new grounsperson started mulch volcanos appeared around trees. My wife had me print it out some info and she took it to the office to inform them, got a cool reception at the office, ends up the new gardener was husband of the receptionist lady she was complaining to, I think the technical term for such is nepotism.

The rest of your post was spot on, great stuff.

TreeDimensional · 26th February 2008, 12:19 PM

Ekka, I looked through your links in the previous post. It is apparently as you have been saying, the government evens seems to condone the mutilation of trees, and uses your taxes dollars to pay for it.

I am also disappointed that this thread is crashing and burning. After careful consideration, I think I can give you an answer for why no one is responding. The photos in post #1 of this thread show only damage in the root area. This is possibly seen as not such a big deal to most people, kinda like "out of sight, out of mind". I guess that more people think the green stuff on top is more important than the brown stuff below ground.

Life lessons have taught me that the worst place to be, when being struck is at the outside radius of the object doing the striking. I got a broken arm to prove it. I don't mean to down play the forces of a limb failing in a tree, but I would rather have a limb hit me than the whole tree.

As I am not a resident of Australia, I could only guess at the volatility of the weather. But with almost 50% of the root area being destroyed, I am sure the possibility of a wind throw is likely to happen.

For the members of Tree World from Brisbane, this is an opportunity to get together and stand up to the man (regulators). Ekka has demonstrated that he's willing to take one on the chin for you, will you for him?

There is no shame in banding together for a common goal, even if you are sometimes competitors. If you work to the best of your abilities and abide by the regulations, everyone except the hacks win.

pomme · 26th February 2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

For the members of Tree World from Brisbane, this is an opportunity to get together and stand up to the man (regulators). Ekka has demonstrated that he's willing to take one on the chin for you, will you for him?

There is no shame in banding together for a common goal, even if you are sometimes competitors. If you work to the best of your abilities and abide by the regulations, everyone except the hacks win.

Well said, If you all get together you MAY be listened to. but as i have said in other treads you will come up against the "we ve done it this way for years" brigade. Unfortunately those working in the private sector are more likely to keep updating their knowledge than public workers or perhaps its difficult to get new ideas listened to. from what i have seen in the uk very few councils implement the latest ideas and are prepared to accept sub-standard work for a cheap price. the biggest companies are the ones doing the poorest work so it would take a lot of small companies to band together to get anything done.

Good luck its a global problem

Ekka · 16th June 2008, 09:25 PM

Here's what happened elsewhere, the situation is not uncommon and cover ups deployed.

Northern Territory News

Quote:

27Feb08
SAFETY ISSUE: Former St Mary's Primary School principal Tony O'Brien leaving the Darwin Magistrates Court yesterday

SAFETY ISSUE: Former St Mary's Primary School principal Tony O'Brien leaving the Darwin Magistrates Court yesterday

THE groundsman at a Territory school where a 9-year-old boy was killed by a branch, said the principal ignored his pleas to maintain trees in order to save money, a coronial inquest heard yesterday.

Former St Mary's Primary School groundsman Tony Gooch told the Territory coroner yesterday he had written ``more than 10'' letters to former principal Tony O'Brien to get permission to maintain ``dangerous'' trees in the schoolyard, which ``regularly'' dropped big branches.

But Mr O'Brien refused ``98 per cent'' of the time, because of ``budget restraints'', the inquest was told.

``That's what he told me each time. That there wasn't enough money,'' Mr Gooch said. But the Darwin Magistrates Court heard yesterday Mr Gooch's letters and his personal file had not yet been found.

Mr Gooch was giving evidence during an inquest into the death of Darwin boy Aidan Bott.

Aidan died on August 29, 2006, at the Royal Darwin Hospital, seven days after he was hit on the head by a 7m African Mahogany tree branch.

Catholic Education Office and St Mary's lawyer Ben O'Loughlin said he was ``totally surprised'' by Mr Gooch's statements.

And the information distressed Aidan's mother Robyn Hunt, sitting in court with nine friends.

The inquest heard that during Mr O'Brien's tenure, no money was spent on tree maintenance in 2005, and only $210 by the time of the accident. The school had allocated $3000 in its budget to grounds maintenance that year.

``I thought it was very insufficient for the amount of work that had to be done at that stage,'' Mr Gooch told the inquest, describing the appearance of the school as ``grubby''.

Mr O'Brien, who was principal from 2003 until 2006, admitted the school looked ``run down'' but denied that he ever chose penny-pinching over making trees safe.

``I can't believe I would say that because it was a safety issue and I was very conscious of safety as principal,'' Mr O'Brien told the hearing.

Former principal, Sister Helen Little, said she did not ``pay attention'' to budget restraints but Mr O'Brien denied that he was brought in as a ``financial broom'' by the Catholic Education Office. He said the school was subject to ``regular reminding'' by the office to keep to budget.

And no parents or teachers had said the African Mahogany trees were dangerous, the inquest heard.

``The trees were regarded as a very significant part of St Mary's,'' he said.

Assisting counsel Jodi Truman said Aidan was with four friends under the tree _ one of three in the courtyard _ when the students heard a ``loud crack'' before running from the area.

``It appears Aidan was the only boy who was either sitting or kneeling at the time ... (and) he was simply unable to get up in time and run away with his friends,'' Ms Truman told the inquest.

Former policeman and St Mary's groundsman, David Butt, said he lay Aidan's slumped body on the ground after the branch fell, and his injuries looked ``fatal''.

The inquest continues today.

'We knew killer tree was dangerous' | The Courier-Mail

Quote:

March 19, 2008 07:48am

THE Territory Catholic Education Office and St Mary's Primary School have admitted they knew the tree that killed a schoolboy would "seriously hurt someone" five months before the tragedy.
Aidan Bott's mother wept as the Coroner's Court yesterday heard her son's death was "preventable and foreseeable'' by the people in charge of his safety.

The inquest could lead to a mandate that Territory school staff should be trained in tree management and trees be inspected regularly by arborists.

The Catholic Education Office (CEO) provided an "explosive'' letter to Coroner Greg Cavanagh yesterday. It showed the former principal, former CEO director and present deputy director all knew the tree was dangerous.

The letter was found only this week when CEO director Michael Avery paid for a private investigation into the school's archives.

Written by principal Tony O'Brien to director Bill Griffiths and deputy-director Greg O'Mullane, and dated March 2006, it said a "large tree branch'' fell in the school courtyard, which was metres away from where nine-year-old Aidan was sitting when an African mahogany branch killed him five months later.

Mr O'Brien wrote that "fortunately the children were in class'', but warned the tree had the
potential to seriously hurt'' students if not fixed.

When shown the letter this week, Mr O'Brien said he had forgotten about it.

Dr Griffiths and Mr O'Mullane said they just "can't remember'' receiving the letter.

Assisting counsel Jodi Truman said that evidence given by the CEO and Mr O'Brien was "at best poor ... at worst disingenuous''.

And if Mr Avery had not found the letters, the truth would never been uncovered.

"What's the old saying, 'It was a conspiracy or a stuff up - you pick the stuff up every time','' Mr Cavanagh said.

Ms Truman said Aidan's death was preventable and Mr Cavanagh should recommend that all Territory schools overhaul their approach to tree maintenance.

"I spoke to Aidan's mother ... and she said one day her little boy went to school and he never came home.

"She never wants that to happen to anyone else.''

Michael Powell, acting for Aidan's mother Robyn Hunt, said she - like every parent at St Mary's that day - thought "the safest place you could keep your kids during the day would be at school''.

But the school, suffering a $5million maintenance shortfall, had been "left to rack and ruin'', and "buckets of money'' - $46,000 - only "materialised'' to remove trees after the tragedy.

He said the CEO had been "disgusting and shameful'' during the inquest, resorting to an "attack'' on a former groundsman.

"For the family to suffer further trauma of a cover-up unravelling is utterly disgraceful,'' Mr Powell said.

CEO and St Mary's lawyer Tom Berkley said both bodies now admitted they "knew there was a danger'' with the tree''.

He said "other dangers'' to pupils, including a legionnaire's disease scare, received higher priority leading up to Aidan's death.

"Well meaning people had to make decisions ... and now it appears in hindsight ... those decisions could have been better,'' he said.

Mr Cavanagh adjourned the case to prepare his decision

Northern Territory News

Quote:

03May08

THE SCHOOLYARD death of a nine-year-old Darwin boy should have been prevented by the people taking care of him, the NT Coroner said yesterday.

Greg Cavanagh said there was ``no doubt'' former St Mary's Primary school principal Tony O'Brien and the NT Catholic Education Office knew the tree that killed Aidan Bott (picture left) was dangerous.

And they "did not do anything'' about it. "A little boy went to school one day and did not return,'' Mr Cavanagh said.

"The family is ... rightfully upset and distressed at this tragedy -- so too is the entire community.''

The Coroner chastised the school and the Catholic Education Office for not admitting earlier they knew the tree could potentially kill -- and for compounding the grief of a distraught mother and her family, who had lost Aidan forever.

"(Their) distress has been compounded by the manner in which legal representatives of the school and the Catholic Education Office ... went to some lengths to persuade me they had no relevant knowledge as to the risks by the tree in the school yard.''

But he said there was insufficient evidence of a crime in connection to Aidan's death.

As soon as Mr Cavanagh said "his death was a preventable death'', the boy's mother, Robyn Hunt, broke down in tears.

The decision came about a month after Ms Hunt had sat through a six-day inquest into Aidan's death from a brain injury after he was hit by a 7m African mahogany branch on August 22, 2006.

The coroner's 30-page findings say budget pinching by the school and Catholic Education Office increased tree danger at St Mary's.

The school spent just $3000 that year on ground maintenance, which was "seven to eight times less'' than other Territory public schools.

"This is simply inadequate in the extreme,'' Mr Cavanagh said.

The coroner recommended government agencies educate all NT private and public school principals on tree maintenance, with compulsory six-month inspections being done by arborists.

a_lopa · 16th June 2008, 10:36 PM

Scary!!! Problem sometimes with smaller schools with small budgets as well..I see it a fair bit here,they want to do but cant find the $$$.Then some responsible ones find the $$$ bout a 50/50 mix

kimtree · 17th June 2008, 10:17 PM

a few weeks i spent 10 hours of my time doing a big quote for the local catholic school,work to be done on about 65 trees,mostly removals.going in tomorrow for a meeting with the principal,but i suspect that i have completely wasted my time.you could sum up this schools tree maintenance program as on par with St Marys in darwin,historically they have only ever done work after a big storm has gone through,so most could be claimed on insurance.Not at all like the state run school just up the road where there is bi-annual program

Ekka · 18th June 2008, 12:12 AM

Maybe they like leaving it as "an act of God"

treeseer · 18th June 2008, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimtree

a few weeks i spent 10 hours of my time doing a big quote for the local catholic school,work to be done on about 65 trees,mostly removals.

Why so many? Was a risk assessment done?

newguy18 · 18th June 2008, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Maybe they like leaving it as "an act of God"

Yeah they could say that but in this case they obviously can't since they were warned about the tree[s]in question.It should be state or county[whichever you aussies use] that a qualified certified arborist or tree surgeon make at least an annual inspection of all trees on campus.I also think if budgets can't be made for human saftey maybe cut out sports or lesser programs.Whats more important,human lives or a weekend football game?

Ekka · 18th June 2008, 10:42 AM

Football for sure, cant cut out sports or the kids get fat!

It's about allocating a budget however when purse strings are tight (which schools isn't?) trees often get shoved to the end of the line. I see this from domestic yards, in developments and commercial properties.

Thing is about the Chatswood school is that they not only ignore my recommendations but actually go out and comission reports and work that they have to pay for due to the arrogance of not listening. Imagine that, they have a dip qual arborist dad going to the school regularly and dont take advantage of it, then when you offer advice they undermine it.

So, that's what you call mismanagement driven by power hungry dictators. Never used to be like that though, came with the "new regime".

But that principal is now gone, there was a meeting and upheaval it appears and the principal has left.

A new temporary principal started not long ago, hopefully he's approachable and a little more accepting of us working class who know our jobs.

kimtree · 18th June 2008, 09:47 PM

Well it seems i didnt waste my time,they have consented to do a few of the larger removals,and seem keen to do the rest at a later stage,maybe word has come down from the top[not the almighty] to start doing tree maintenance programs to prevent another unfortunate situation happening [st marys].better late than never

Ekka · 19th June 2008, 03:35 PM

Good news for you, and the school.

Take care of your trees, simple. Dont let hacks and fools near them, check qualifications and do it right ... easy.

Ekka · 16th July 2008, 04:04 PM

All I can say is I told you so, since when does the QLD Education Dept know what is right with tree work and when is Q-Build going to wake up to their poor standards and selection. Both of those depts I'm sure give a stuff about contractors following not only OHS but AS4373 pruning standards yet here is what happens. This time, unlike last time I got the pictures to prove what goes on. Just add it to the "typical" list of how the govt likes to select!

Last Thursday on the 10th of July I could hear chainsaws and chippers. It was also a day that my kids were in after school care so I checked out what was going on.

In this picture you can see the climber, note has no helmet, no hearing protection, no chainsaw pants or chaps and spiking a prune job. The section he is cutting off was dead so what's the point of those huge stubs?

And who says you need more than one attachment point!

This bloke here feeding the chipper without hearing protection, eye protection or a helmet.

Whilst his off sider is cutting without chainsaw pants or chaps and no helmet. Note the position of his left thumb.

One of the forest red gums they pruned has the usual very pronounced collars as seen here.

And seen here.

Well, just cut them off then!

And a bit of flush cutting styling going on too.

And who were these contractors?

I spoke with the climber, his name's Byron and he's from NZ. No qualifications and I doubt Lance has any at all running a show like that.

Imagine that, there was not one person with a helmet on! And these are QBuild contractors so I can only guess that Qbuild has no idea (as usual) and they have no OHS for treeworkers.

I have pointed this out many times before. So why are these outfits getting the work? Why are these people with no qualifications getting the work?

And this is a QAA member, imagine that, just as well I am not because it is against the QAA's rules to do what I just did, expose their own crap.

Anybody, yes anybody can be a QAA member, just pay your dues, it means nothing and you can see here first hand how all of this is a farce involving not only the government from top to bottom but industry organisations. And I assure you this is the tip of the iceberg, this time I had my camera to show you but it's rampant.

QBuild at it again in Bundaberg?

http://www.treeworld.info/f9/arboris...cture-674.html

Controversial pruning on protected trees Durack Primary School - QBuild

JayD · 16th July 2008, 04:28 PM

Whens this going to stop,No ppe! clean cut through the collar, Out of 10 l would not insult the scale! No adherance to the correct prunning codes yet this a government contractor

QAA, You need to take money off Qualified persons..Help take the industry further.
If you looked for qualification aswell as insurances it would start to help the folks that have committed to the industry, Not help to make us a laughing stock.

You can count the the OH&S breaches

Sorry stuff.

The bloke incorectly holding that Husky..It's a matter of time before he cuts himself inhalf from the top down,Not only are you supoesd to have a full grip on the handle thumb under full grip you are also required to stand to the left of the saw..Theory is if a kick back happens it's less likely to hit a body part.

JayD
A-One Tree Services.

Ekka · 16th July 2008, 04:50 PM

Here's a copy of the email sent to QAA, School, Dept Education, Q-Build and Ombudsman

Quote:

Hello everybody,

Serious OHS and Australian Standard's breached, read for yourself fully illustrated.

In a thread running at Treeworld the Chatswood Primary School in Springwood has been under scrutiny for it's tree work.

This is a link to the thread.

Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues| NT school tree kills boy and were advised!

Of particular interest is post 16 Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues| NT school tree kills boy and were advised! which shows in the real world once again how poorly Q-Build select contractors, in fact, as principal contractor they should be dealt with for this serious breach.

It shows clearly how the industries representative body in Queensland (QAA) has little effect for making any difference to their members and is used as a marketing tool by "unqualified and unethical" operators to lure some credibility.

There's many cases, some others shown in post 16 where other schools and places that QLD Education own treat their trees. That shows govt cares little for their own rules, and for those who do study and become proficient at their work it's a serious slap in the face whilst we watch this rubbish going on.

The forum is there for comment, and for public to see the realities of "THE SMART STATE"

I do think a review is neccessary of procedures and especially the fact that the majority of tree businesses do not have any qualified arborists onboard.... they just lie about that part as you can see.

Regards
Eric Frei
www.treeworld.info

And then like in this thread the Dept of Industrial Relations wonders how accidents happen, tree loppers and lumberjacks! ... Nerang Tree Lopper survives 10m fall but they wont register or licence us and the govt hires this sort of stuff!

Ekka · 21st July 2008, 09:37 PM

Principal of the school Keith Graham rang me today and we had a lengthy chat.

They're unable to public comment especially on forums such as this however he wanted us to all know that in no way does Chatswood High School arrange or do this work. They have protocol to follow and have to refer their issues to Education Queensland who engage Q-Build.

Chatswood school even today is one of the rare places you will see koala's in trees. The school prides itself on it's environment and certainly wants the best for it's trees, however what they want and what they get are two very different things as we have all seen.

Apparently now, Qbuild and Education Queensland are looking over their processes and hopefully their contractors.

It goes further than the tree contractors though, it was their building contractors who trenched through tree roots.Their department needs a good looking over that's for sure, hopefully they use some of their collective intelligence to fix the typical situations you have witnessed here.

On that note hopefully the QAA sort their rubbish out too, like the principal said ... you'd expect a contractor provided by Qbuild and member of an industry organisation to be qualified and competant ... I assure you he was surprised also that anyone can be a member and plaster that junk on their advertising to lure credibility.

For the public, look for qualification, insist on seeing the documents. Come to think of it when I go to the dentist, I see his degree on the wall, same with the doctor, if they cant show it, cant produce it ... tell them to leave!

newguy18 · 22nd July 2008, 09:31 AM

Man those guys' work is a load of bs,flush cuts,spikes on a prune job,wtf? can you send it to ohsa or whoever runs the show down there?At a bare minimum they should get fined.

Ekka · 4th August 2008, 10:13 PM

Just documenting what is happening regarding this case.

7.03pm tonight received a call from Byron. He was agitated, mentioned he was recording the conversation to which I informed him it was illegal to do so, he then said he wasn't. I informed him that the forum is open to him and he can come here and comment.

I also informed him that any further calls from him to me personally would be deemed harrassment and he do not call me again.

This issue is real, it's also common, it's also in need of being cleaned up from QAA to QBuild and it's high time that a platform is available to GET ON WITH IT because sure as eggs it's been swept under the too hard carpet long enough. For all of you out there carrying on about regulations and standards etc remember the golden rule ...

... if it's to change then you need to do something about it, whining to each other means nothing but real life evidence and pursuit of change will bring benefits and raise industry standards.

The people within the industry like this crew may not know better or care and their employers need to address these issues embracing a culture of learning and development which then benefits their businesses. Search the forum, see the incidents, accidents, fines for bad tree work etc and realise the time is now for you to make the change. A number of us here have invested serious sums of time and money in our development, we're not going to stand by and turn a blind eye, and at the end of the day for those of you who haven't then there's no better time to than now.

Here's another way of looking at it. If you owned a machine that made $50k per annum would you do maintenance and service? Would you take a little care of that machine so that it could keep making you that money? Would you do some preventative maintenance so that machine was always running? Would you get upgrades for that machine that meant it would cost less to run, do the job better? Now just stop and think, that machine is YOU, invest in yourself.

Ekka · 5th August 2008, 09:05 AM

Yesterday I also received an email from the Ombudsman's office suggesting I take the issue higher in Qbuild.

Quote:

Our ref: 2008/08103

4 August 2008

Mr Eric Frei

Dear Mr Frei

Thank you for your email dated 16 July 2008, concerning a complaint about the Department of Public Works, in relation to tree work at the Chatswood Primary School in Springwood.

The role of the Queensland Ombudsman is to investigate complaints about maladministration by Queensland state government departments, public authorities and councils. The Ombudsman is required to conduct investigations in accordance with the Ombudsman Act 2001 (the Act).

For resource reasons, this Office has a policy of ensuring that an agency complained about is given the opportunity to consider, and hopefully resolve, complaints before this Office becomes involved. Complainants are, therefore, encouraged to raise their complaints, in writing, with the agency concerned, at a senior level.

I note that your email was also addressed to Project Services, as well as to Education Queensland. If you have not already done so, I suggest you write to the Director-General of the Department of Public Works (the Department) and detail your concerns. The contact details are:

Mr Mal Grierson

Director-General

Department of Public Works

GPO Box 2457

BRISBANE QLD 4001

Galbee · 5th August 2008, 09:42 AM

It's good to see the ombudsman is doing it's job, this may be a long winded affair but the end result will be worth it. your doing a great job Ekka.

Ekka · 5th August 2008, 10:08 AM

Copy of letter mailed today.

Quote:

5 August 2008

Mr Mal Grierson
Director-General
Department of Public Works
GPO Box 2457
BRISBANE QLD 4001

Dear Mal,

Alison Fraser, Senior Investigator Assessment & Resolution Team member of the Queensland Ombudsman's Office has suggested I contact you.

Attached to this letter you'll find a copy of the original email and complaint against Q-Build and also a copy of the email Alison sent me.

I also take this opportunity to inform you that as a Diploma qualified arborist it's extremely poor practice to see Qbuild engaging substandard contractors, even obtaining tree reports from people without the relevant qualifications, I'm sure an audit of recent reports and who wrote them along with the individuals personal qualifications would be an interesting exercise.

Brisbane City Council for example stipulates that and arborist must be of AQF level 5 (Diploma) to write a tree report, other councils have varying levels however there has to be a standard. Some businesses Qbuild engage do not have owners that are suitably qualified or staff, the way these businesses side step the issue is to hire contractors on an ad hoc basis where required. It's imperative better systems and checks are in place and there's continuity of relevant arboricultural qualifications in the business .... just like most other businesses where trades people are involved.

Please read the attached emails and follow the links to the evidence on the internet.

Yours sincerely

Eric Frei

kiwi_tree_steve · 6th August 2008, 10:49 PM

Holy Crap!!

so many dangerous / harmful practices, so few pictures! just looking at them makes me cringe

i think my wife learnt sum new expletives just now.

man u say that guys a kiwi......................................... well you can keep him ekka, we dont want him. ( IMO)

when will people learn that this type of work has a name ..........."Vegitation molestation" and should be treated as this.

Ekka · 7th August 2008, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_tree_steve

man u say that guys a kiwi......................................... well you can keep him ekka, we dont want him. ( IMO)

Just so others know, many are very very good, also lots of them on this board. I have had a couple work here, very good climbers and workers, very knowledgable but they were trained and qualified.

Ekka · 30th August 2008, 09:23 PM

For the record, all parties except the QAA have been in contact with me and responded.

One of the Directors of Qbuild even came out and met with me at home, very nice chap.

Qbuild have investigated their processes and want to been seen as leaders in environmental affairs, and agree it's not on what has been going on. So now, it appears all reports and recommendations for tree work must come from a minimum Level 5 (Diploma level) arborist, and physical work performed by competent level 2's or possibly 3's. That's real AQF qualifications by the way.

The chap who saw me also said he has made an appointment with the QAA to take up the issue about the fact that it is an illusion to most that an industry representative body has no criteria for membership and any ole member can advertise in the fashion they do and lure some credibility ... a long known.

So the clamps have come down STATE WIDE.

Funny about that, persistence and hammering away at high places with example after example, fact after fact, pictures after pictures has finally showed who the dills are and left enough egg on faces that it could no longer be burried..

Treeworld has come through as a form of media that has helped the task, no-one else was taking it on either, funny that.

I have personally tolerated many threats and abuse, from many people, from Qbuild managers too, but it was worth it.

For each and every one of you good arborists out there I urge you to use this place as much as you can to deal with issues, this is a place where we will print it, where we will air it unlike the other places that prefer to censor letters, articles and members.

A good motto for you is ... IF IT'S TO BE IT'S UP TO ME

treeseer · 30th August 2008, 11:13 PM

Eric, thanks for showing the way. Interaction at treeworld and elsewhere benefits all.

Most importantly, the rest of us

need to follow your lead, to adopt more aggressiveness against systems that don't work, and find the force in Truth that will set them free. I'm looking to your work for the toughness

and the techniques to change the orgs I'm in. Thanks for letting us know how it is being done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

A good motto for you is ... IF IT'S TO BE IT'S UP TO ME

newguy18 · 31st August 2008, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

For the record, all parties except the QAA have been in contact with me and responded.

One of the Directors of Qbuild even came out and met with me at home, very nice chap.

Qbuild have investigated their processes and want to been seen as leaders in environmental affairs, and agree it's not on what has been going on. So now, it appears all reports and recommendations for tree work must come from a minimum Level 5 (Diploma level) arborist, and physical work performed by competent level 2's or possibly 3's. That's real AQF qualifications by the way.

The chap who saw me also said he has made an appointment with the QAA to take up the issue about the fact that it is an illusion to most that an industry representative body has no criteria for membership and any ole member can advertise in the fashion they do and lure some credibility ... a long known.

So the clamps have come down STATE WIDE.

Funny about that, persistence and hammering away at high places with example after example, fact after fact, pictures after pictures has finally showed who the dills are and left enough egg on faces that it could no longer be burried..

Treeworld has come through as a form of media that has helped the task, no-one else was taking it on either, funny that.

I have personally tolerated many threats and abuse, from many people, from Qbuild managers too, but it was worth it.

For each and every one of you good arborists out there I urge you to use this place as much as you can to deal with issues, this is a place where we will print it, where we will air it unlike the other places that prefer to censor letters, articles and members.

A good motto for you is ... IF IT'S TO BE IT'S UP TO ME

Good man Eric,fight for whats right,not a good theory or emotions.

TrevMcRev · 31st August 2008, 10:24 PM

Well done ekka, it takes guts and determination to fight what we all know is wrong but most of us put up with.

22nd February 2008, 10:05 PM	#2
kimtree Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: Kununurra WA Posts: 136	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues that's standard up here,not much regard given to trees by plumbers etc

23rd February 2008, 10:21 AM	#3
TreeDimensional Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 447	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues Ekka, thats interesting, I am a bit curious on a few points. The first thing is, is this a public or private school? The second issue is who is Q-build? And finally, does the groundskeeper (gardener) have any qualifications for consulting on such a job. If this is a public school, I wonder why the principal is calling the shots on work that could have MAJOR consequences. Here is Saskatchewan, all the public schools are funded by the Provincial government. The facilities and their maintenance are over-seen by a Division school board, which employ caretakers/grounds keepers. There is always a superintendent for facilities, whose job is to over see the maintenance and improvements to the infrastructure. When there are issues that require special consideration, the work is either allocated to specialists in the area or region. Major works are usually tendered, which unfortunately goes to the lowest bidder. I appears obvious to me that the contractor did not know OR care that the work they were doing was GOING to impact the existing trees. It is my understanding that these are remaining trees from a group. If this is the case, the first thing that should have been done is an inspection to access the viability and health of the trees, of course there should have been a risk assessment done at that time also. Now there MUST be a risk assessment done to protect the users of the facility, the kids are a more valuable asset that the building, but it needs to be protected also. If the principal asked the gardener to oversee the project, I think she may be in for a rocky ride. She might be held liable for putting the building and the students at risk, if her employee (gardener) isn't qualified to access the site. The gardener, if not qualified, was acting like our competitors in the private sector, HE would be considered an uneducated hack. If he was qualified to supervise the job, he would be considered a lousy supervisor. I should have waited for my first three questions to be answered, but sometimes we put things on the back burner, if they don't directly effect us. Three years ago we started our first school contract, it took several years of advising, calling, and lobbying, to convince the school division that they had some serious tree issues. The contract we have is renewed annually, and so far every year the volume of work has doubled. Like Ekka, I accept every time I am asked to speak to or show the students something. I would like you all to think of me as a good guy for doing it, but the truth is I enjoy giving the little ones a glimpse of what tree work is about, but the real truth is when little Johnny or Jane go home and tell Mom and Dad what they saw when I was there, it generates business for me. Whenever public safety is an issue, the management MUST look to the professionals for advice, failing to do so is a blatant disregard to the laws of the land.

26th February 2008, 12:19 PM	#5
TreeDimensional Mature Tree Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 447	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues Ekka, I looked through your links in the previous post. It is apparently as you have been saying, the government evens seems to condone the mutilation of trees, and uses your taxes dollars to pay for it. I am also disappointed that this thread is crashing and burning. After careful consideration, I think I can give you an answer for why no one is responding. The photos in post #1 of this thread show only damage in the root area. This is possibly seen as not such a big deal to most people, kinda like "out of sight, out of mind". I guess that more people think the green stuff on top is more important than the brown stuff below ground. Life lessons have taught me that the worst place to be, when being struck is at the outside radius of the object doing the striking. I got a broken arm to prove it. I don't mean to down play the forces of a limb failing in a tree, but I would rather have a limb hit me than the whole tree. As I am not a resident of Australia, I could only guess at the volatility of the weather. But with almost 50% of the root area being destroyed, I am sure the possibility of a wind throw is likely to happen. For the members of Tree World from Brisbane, this is an opportunity to get together and stand up to the man (regulators). Ekka has demonstrated that he's willing to take one on the chin for you, will you for him? There is no shame in banding together for a common goal, even if you are sometimes competitors. If you work to the best of your abilities and abide by the regulations, everyone except the hacks win.

16th June 2008, 10:36 PM	#8
a_lopa Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 1,290	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis Scary!!! Problem sometimes with smaller schools with small budgets as well..I see it a fair bit here,they want to do but cant find the $$$.Then some responsible ones find the $$$ bout a 50/50 mix __________________ Drouin Tree Services and Excavator Hire \| Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland

17th June 2008, 10:17 PM	#9
kimtree Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: Kununurra WA Posts: 136	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis a few weeks i spent 10 hours of my time doing a big quote for the local catholic school,work to be done on about 65 trees,mostly removals.going in tomorrow for a meeting with the principal,but i suspect that i have completely wasted my time.you could sum up this schools tree maintenance program as on par with St Marys in darwin,historically they have only ever done work after a big storm has gone through,so most could be claimed on insurance.Not at all like the state run school just up the road where there is bi-annual program

18th June 2008, 12:12 AM	#10
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,559	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis Maybe they like leaving it as "an act of God" __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge

18th June 2008, 10:42 AM	#13
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,559	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis Football for sure, cant cut out sports or the kids get fat! It's about allocating a budget however when purse strings are tight (which schools isn't?) trees often get shoved to the end of the line. I see this from domestic yards, in developments and commercial properties. Thing is about the Chatswood school is that they not only ignore my recommendations but actually go out and comission reports and work that they have to pay for due to the arrogance of not listening. Imagine that, they have a dip qual arborist dad going to the school regularly and dont take advantage of it, then when you offer advice they undermine it. So, that's what you call mismanagement driven by power hungry dictators. Never used to be like that though, came with the "new regime". But that principal is now gone, there was a meeting and upheaval it appears and the principal has left. A new temporary principal started not long ago, hopefully he's approachable and a little more accepting of us working class who know our jobs. __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge

18th June 2008, 09:47 PM	#14
kimtree Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: May 2007 Location: Kununurra WA Posts: 136	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis Well it seems i didnt waste my time,they have consented to do a few of the larger removals,and seem keen to do the rest at a later stage,maybe word has come down from the top[not the almighty] to start doing tree maintenance programs to prevent another unfortunate situation happening [st marys].better late than never

19th June 2008, 03:35 PM	#15
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,559	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis Good news for you, and the school. Take care of your trees, simple. Dont let hacks and fools near them, check qualifications and do it right ... easy. __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge

16th July 2008, 04:28 PM	#17
JayD Moderator - Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,387	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis Whens this going to stop,No ppe! clean cut through the collar, Out of 10 l would not insult the scale! No adherance to the correct prunning codes yet this a government contractor QAA, You need to take money off Qualified persons..Help take the industry further. If you looked for qualification aswell as insurances it would start to help the folks that have committed to the industry, Not help to make us a laughing stock. You can count the the OH&S breachesSorry stuff. The bloke incorectly holding that Husky..It's a matter of time before he cuts himself inhalf from the top down,Not only are you supoesd to have a full grip on the handle thumb under full grip you are also required to stand to the left of the saw..Theory is if a kick back happens it's less likely to hit a body part. JayD A-One Tree Services. __________________ Level 4 Arborist

21st July 2008, 09:37 PM	#19
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,559	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis Principal of the school Keith Graham rang me today and we had a lengthy chat. They're unable to public comment especially on forums such as this however he wanted us to all know that in no way does Chatswood High School arrange or do this work. They have protocol to follow and have to refer their issues to Education Queensland who engage Q-Build. Chatswood school even today is one of the rare places you will see koala's in trees. The school prides itself on it's environment and certainly wants the best for it's trees, however what they want and what they get are two very different things as we have all seen. Apparently now, Qbuild and Education Queensland are looking over their processes and hopefully their contractors. It goes further than the tree contractors though, it was their building contractors who trenched through tree roots.Their department needs a good looking over that's for sure, hopefully they use some of their collective intelligence to fix the typical situations you have witnessed here. On that note hopefully the QAA sort their rubbish out too, like the principal said ... you'd expect a contractor provided by Qbuild and member of an industry organisation to be qualified and competant ... I assure you he was surprised also that anyone can be a member and plaster that junk on their advertising to lure credibility. For the public, look for qualification, insist on seeing the documents. Come to think of it when I go to the dentist, I see his degree on the wall, same with the doctor, if they cant show it, cant produce it ... tell them to leave! __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge

22nd July 2008, 09:31 AM	#20
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,185	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis Man those guys' work is a load of bs,flush cuts,spikes on a prune job,wtf? can you send it to ohsa or whoever runs the show down there?At a bare minimum they should get fined. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

4th August 2008, 10:13 PM	#21
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,559	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis Just documenting what is happening regarding this case. 7.03pm tonight received a call from Byron. He was agitated, mentioned he was recording the conversation to which I informed him it was illegal to do so, he then said he wasn't. I informed him that the forum is open to him and he can come here and comment. I also informed him that any further calls from him to me personally would be deemed harrassment and he do not call me again. This issue is real, it's also common, it's also in need of being cleaned up from QAA to QBuild and it's high time that a platform is available to GET ON WITH IT because sure as eggs it's been swept under the too hard carpet long enough. For all of you out there carrying on about regulations and standards etc remember the golden rule ... ... if it's to change then you need to do something about it, whining to each other means nothing but real life evidence and pursuit of change will bring benefits and raise industry standards. The people within the industry like this crew may not know better or care and their employers need to address these issues embracing a culture of learning and development which then benefits their businesses. Search the forum, see the incidents, accidents, fines for bad tree work etc and realise the time is now for you to make the change. A number of us here have invested serious sums of time and money in our development, we're not going to stand by and turn a blind eye, and at the end of the day for those of you who haven't then there's no better time to than now. Here's another way of looking at it. If you owned a machine that made $50k per annum would you do maintenance and service? Would you take a little care of that machine so that it could keep making you that money? Would you do some preventative maintenance so that machine was always running? Would you get upgrades for that machine that meant it would cost less to run, do the job better? Now just stop and think, that machine is YOU, invest in yourself. __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge

5th August 2008, 09:42 AM	#23
Galbee Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,147	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis It's good to see the ombudsman is doing it's job, this may be a long winded affair but the end result will be worth it. your doing a great job Ekka.

6th August 2008, 10:49 PM	#25
kiwi_tree_steve Mature tree Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: BC. Canada Posts: 342	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis Holy Crap!! so many dangerous / harmful practices, so few pictures! just looking at them makes me cringe i think my wife learnt sum new expletives just now. man u say that guys a kiwi......................................... well you can keep him ekka, we dont want him. ( IMO) when will people learn that this type of work has a name ..........."Vegitation molestation" and should be treated as this. __________________ "You have to feel and touch a tree" Shigo

30th August 2008, 09:23 PM	#27
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,559	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis For the record, all parties except the QAA have been in contact with me and responded. One of the Directors of Qbuild even came out and met with me at home, very nice chap. Qbuild have investigated their processes and want to been seen as leaders in environmental affairs, and agree it's not on what has been going on. So now, it appears all reports and recommendations for tree work must come from a minimum Level 5 (Diploma level) arborist, and physical work performed by competent level 2's or possibly 3's. That's real AQF qualifications by the way. The chap who saw me also said he has made an appointment with the QAA to take up the issue about the fact that it is an illusion to most that an industry representative body has no criteria for membership and any ole member can advertise in the fashion they do and lure some credibility ... a long known. So the clamps have come down STATE WIDE. Funny about that, persistence and hammering away at high places with example after example, fact after fact, pictures after pictures has finally showed who the dills are and left enough egg on faces that it could no longer be burried.. Treeworld has come through as a form of media that has helped the task, no-one else was taking it on either, funny that. I have personally tolerated many threats and abuse, from many people, from Qbuild managers too, but it was worth it. For each and every one of you good arborists out there I urge you to use this place as much as you can to deal with issues, this is a place where we will print it, where we will air it unlike the other places that prefer to censor letters, articles and members. A good motto for you is ... IF IT'S TO BE IT'S UP TO ME __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist Consumers, insist on a Tree World member, they're visible and accessible. Look for this badge

31st August 2008, 10:24 PM	#30
TrevMcRev Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 1,418	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis Well done ekka, it takes guts and determination to fight what we all know is wrong but most of us put up with. __________________ Total Tree Care - Melbourne Arborist Reports & Consulting,Tree Pruning & Removal \| Elm Leaf Beetle Treatment Melbourne www.treegear.com.au - Australia's Best Value Arborist Supplies

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