Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues| NT school tree kills boy and were advised!

newguy18

I think he was hoping that what little wood he left uncut would guide it,not on that size of limb,it would just tear and fall possibly injuring him if it jumped back.I agree treevet,notch or at least a kerf undercut should have been made.I'd also like to add that Lace,his climber or any of his crew not signing up here to share thier side of the story[which we already know from Eric's pics]is just plain cowardley.

__________________
Have your say join us today.

I ship USA saws out of the USA

old schooler

Sean Freeman

Open letter to Mr Phillip Cooke

Barbeler & Cooke Solicitors
Logan Law Chambers
21 Dennis Road
Springwood
Qld 4127

Dear Sir,
I note with some concern your email (sent and received by Eric Frei Friday October 10th 14:14) advising Mr Frei of claims made by Mr Lance Batchelor of “Lance’s Tree Care Service” your client, that descriptions within a public internet discussion forum (Treeworld) were misleading, false and defamatory.

It would appear by the text of your email correspondence made available to me through the same public forum, that you are unaware of a number of very serious apparent breaches of Queensland Statute Law by your client.

I have been a Workplace Health and Safety Officer between the years 2002-2007 ID 00281710 Number 01660639, during which time I have written Workplace Health and Safety policies for private boarding schools in North Queensland, delivered WH&S training to teaching, ancillary and vocational staff, undertaken WH&S inspections and audits of workplaces, examined and improved site workplace risk assessment procedures and assisted in WH&S investigations.

I provide the following information without prejudice with regards to the apparent breaches so that very careful consideration may be given by you and Barbeler & Cooke Solicitors with a view to discussing with your client whether engaging in a detailed examination of the publicized actions of employees of “Lance’s Tree Care Service” is in his best interests.

The photographic evidence of persons apparently employed by “Lance’s Tree Care Service” indicates apparent breaches of;

• The Workplace Health and Safety Act 1995,
• The Workplace Health and Safety Regulation 2008,

Since I am aware of the WH&S standards demanded by Q-Build of its subcontractors, and the legal requirement for every school in Queensland Education Department to have a WH&S plan and policy that all persons coming onto school property must abide by, the photographic evidence indicates apparent contractual breaches with regards risk management by persons apparently employed by “Lance’s Tree Care Service”

Some of these breaches have been detailed by others on the public forum; to assist in clarifying which specific areas of operation your client appears to have failed to abide by the WH&S legislation I have attached some freely available documentation from the Department of Employment and Industrial Relations.
(For a comprehensive explanation of the obligations relating to the operation of chainsaws… Chainsaw operations)
I would further point out to you and your client that ignorance of their responsibilities under the Act is not a defendable position.

Thankfully the time when persons were able to expose themselves, their employees and others to unacceptable levels of risk in the workplace is long gone. The Department of Employment and Industrial Relations has spent a great deal of time and capital in ensuring that all registered businesses throughout the state are provided with free information detailing how they may discharge their responsibilities under the Act.

The fact that the apparent breaches of the act and regulation in the operations of “Lance’s Tree Care Service” have been highlighted on this public forum before any serious notifiable event has occurred is actually to the advantage of your client, provided that remedial steps are taken forthwith to ensure that all legal obligations are fulfilled.

Sean Freeman

B.A. Hons
Dip Arb Dip Hort MISA
Senior Consulting Arborist
Queensland
QTRA Lic No. 762 ISA Certified Arborist AU-0045A
trees_noise.pdf

trees_plant_equip.pdf

trees_checklist.pdf

trees_law.pdf

trees_site_tree_assess.pdf

trees_traffic_public_protect.pdf

phill ellison

a darn good letter there sean, hope they get that in their heads

a_lopa

Thats great its good to see the Queenslanders getting somewhere with this!

__________________

Drouin Tree Services and Excavator Hire | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland

a_lopa

I just cant believe they have little/no PPE...plain stupid..

__________________

Drouin Tree Services and Excavator Hire | Excavator Hire - Drouin and SE Gippsland

newguy18

Hell around here by law other than saftey glassess everything thing else is optional.

__________________
Have your say join us today.

I ship USA saws out of the USA

old schooler

TrevMcRev

Also it would pay to research when & where Lance got his "level 2"

Quite possible it was quickly RPL'd by QAA mates to try and get him out of this mess.

Lance, please post up copies of your certs here in this thread. If they pre-date this thread you will at least buy yourself some credit. If you do not, we can only assume they are post-thread, in which case hold no merit in your argument.

__________________

Total Tree Care - Melbourne Arborist Reports & Consulting,Tree Pruning & Removal | Elm Leaf Beetle Treatment Melbourne

www.treegear.com.au - Australia's Best Value Arborist Supplies

FREE shipping for TREEGEAR Members-Join here

Eric Frei

Excellent point!

Also, ISA have rules about advertising for their certified arborists ... it has to have the persons name or their number. That's because individuals get qualifications not companies.

And regardless of Lances qualifications he sent out an unqualified climber to do the job.

Also it opens a huge can of worms, that's where the boss gets some cert and sends out anyone. So from Q-Builds aspect this is extremely relevant and needs to be seen because a company can "comply" to Q-Build's criteria but at the coal face have a non compliant person doing the work, as has happened here.

I do note that the solicitor has avoided the fact of addressing any of the people's photographed qualifications, they're the ones doing the job though.

Also, QAA is not an RTO (Registered Training Organisation) and clearly on their website they do not have a list of RTO's that train arb, there's only a ads for a couple of training places. You'd think, that as an "industry representative body" (well they think they are) they would have a list of every RTO but they dont.

It's not the QAA's role to train, there's specialists places for that, however it would be their job to provide a list of RTO's and unbiasedly allow people to choose without their prejudice or influence where to train.

__________________

treeseer

Thanks to Mr. Freeman for being factual and in good faith trying to see that tree workers work safely, despite their employers.

There are many things wrong with the chainsaw work in the tree, yet that climber commands $550/day?

The solicitor seems to be quite confused about what the pictures show, and what grounds his client has for complaint.

The world is watching.

Eric Frei

His rate was $440 per day up until the event and afterwards he went up to $550/day.

__________________

Eric Frei

Legal Fighting Fund| Contributions required| free speech at risk

__________________

pomie

so what should a qualified arborist get paid, hear lies one problem,tree lopping firms will pay more to a climber than an arborist firm would to a qualified climber so arborist firms will take you on but they want you to all the crap jobs for like $25 an hour so me mister cert 3 arborist with 14 years climbing would get less than a storeman with a forklift license that would get about $28 an hour this where the QAA should doing more to make these hill billies in queenland c that arboriculture is a profession that takes a lot of skill time and training to be good and safe at your job the whole of the tree industryin queenland has root rot and it goes all the way up and it needs changing or you will end up going backwards so all u will have left is contractors like ltc

pomie

maybe the QAA will inform LTC that to stay a member of the QAA he needs to employ a qualified arborist to keep his membership with them and they have a list of qualified arborist that he can call ,then hay if i am on the list i could charge $660 as a qualified arborist i should go and be come a certified arborist wonder what i could charge then

Eric Frei

There's many who walk away I assure you, because they get undercut by hacks. I know out there I'm not the isolated one that loses jobs daily to people who dont give a shit?

Just today I decided to refuse to quote a job, a shopping centre owns a rental house where the tree is within the mandated 3m clearance of exposed street LV wires. The tree was topped around wire height many years ago with epicormics growing another 12m+ above it and a juvenile ficus growing in the topped region.

The shopping centre got 2 other quotes, one for $2100 and another for $2700 ... the $2700 dollar quote didn't even go seen the tree but quoted it over the phone.

The tenant got hold of me, I got hold of the "agents" being the shopping centre people and told them about M31 and Live wires etc.

Then they got Energex out who only trimmed some of the crap near the wires. To do the job safely the boom of the EWP must go over the wires (truck parked in the street). A comms wire running over the drive-way has to be dropped to allow a landing zone.

Chances are you need an insulated boom truck, spotter, traffic control and then the worst part is that once you have come down the trunk and got as close to the top of the wires as allowed you still have a large log to deal with.

The land slopes heavily toward the house, you cant come in under the wires with a boom due to comms. So you tie the log up to prevent it rolling into the house and fell it onto the debris pile, winch it or bobcat it out etc.

But the shopping centre management want the cheapest quote, their own words were "we want to spend as little as possible". So what happens is the people with the knowledge and best practice method get ass-holed out for the cheapest fool ........ welcome to Queensland, where ignorance remains your best friend it seems. Now if the shopping centre doesn't have funds to do things right who does?

It's like asking builder to throw away the scaffold and use ladders to save a few bucks etc. Just seems the industry boils down to the dumbest operators prices.

Recent a Nerang Tree Lopper fell from a palm, rumour is that he was a firewood cutter till a few weeks before. Read for yourself the story here. Nerang Tree Lopper survives 10m fall

And in USA things have got a lot worse, read about that here. OSHA| USA| Tree Care Operations | Asking Your Input

This is real and world wide. This is because self regulation is utter bullshit and only fools believe it will work. It's also utter bullshit to expect that either the OHS people or some organisation is going to go around and police the crap. I even had video of rogue operators and Workplace Health and Safety said they would not act upon such and needed to catch them red handed.

I assure you, I am not the only one affected, I am not the only one with pictures of them. However I am one of the few to take a stand against the rot and show it to the politicians and law makers that the system is broken.

When we get the right money on jobs then we can pay the right money to everyone, and good qualified climber should be earning around $75K a year. However in my experience the boss will expect you to have many hats from foreman, truck driver, log humper, climber and all round gopher for that sort of money, nothing worse than working for a boss who drives some $40k car after trading in the Kanga so you hump log.

Yes, their comfort come before yours.

Who's dealing with any of this, no-one. Customers like the shopping centre will hire people like that Nerang Tree Lopper, meanwhile the qualified people can rent their gear out to the hacks.

__________________

Eric Frei

For all who want a paper record.

Posts 54 to 74 are in the PDF attached, these PDF's include the pictures.

For posts 1 to 53 they are in post 55 just click here

Again, I suggest download them.

Attached Files

chatswood2.pdf (5.30 MB, 56 views)

__________________

TrevMcRev

The last image with the ground guy operating in shorts also has his thumb on TOP of the handle rather than a full grip.

This point is usually pointed out early on in any form of chainsaw operator training.

__________________

Total Tree Care - Melbourne Arborist Reports & Consulting,Tree Pruning & Removal | Elm Leaf Beetle Treatment Melbourne

www.treegear.com.au - Australia's Best Value Arborist Supplies

FREE shipping for TREEGEAR Members-Join here

Eric Frei

QAA mailed over 600 Tree Business May 2007 OHS Kit

QAA mailed not only it's entire member base a comprehensive OHS package including brochures and disks but also mailed it to as many tree people and businesses it could find ... they actually had telemarketers ringing up businesses from ads etc to get the info to them.

I then straight away loaded it up here in a Zip file.

OH&S for tree works Queensland zip file

There's no EXCUSE!

__________________

bigdaddy

What your doing is good . I ve been in loggen all my life 3 gerneration .I know nothing about trees pre some people on here . I cut down to make money its all about the money lol . I' ve seen storms come through seen home owners out there trying to cut them up and off the houses. I paid my men to go help them. I felt like homeowners was going to get hurt. I hope this helps hope i've not made anybody mad. But allways i have a family too. :

Robert STAVROU

I have been quite amazed by this thread, sometimes I think we may blinker ourselves to the reality of many within our industry.
As a qualified instructor in chainsaw operation to Level III and as an experienced safety auditor of utility vegetation management crews, I am totally appalled at the photograhs in question (I believe their validity).
Seans' concise and succinct response (devoid of perceived emotive language) is quite clear in meaning, no misunderstanding (well done).
The quality of the work is not the major issue for me professionally but the profound safety breaches which will, not may; lead to serious industrial accidents, (we are all trying to wipe these out within our personal abilities).

I am still shaking my head!

P.S. it would appear that we still have a long way to go as a profession!

__________________
STAV

NeTree

Unbelievable.

Had to read this whole thread from the beginning, so excuse me if I missed something pertinent.

The guy supposedly just "walking" by the chipper shouldn't be there anyways... no one should be allowed within at least 20 feet of the machine without proper PPE; in the photo, you can clearly see the debris cloud indicating the machine was in operation.

The other photos... well, they speak for themselves, don't they?

I can't believe they'd have the audacity to try to pursue any legal action based on what is shown in those pictures... which, by the way, Eric took perfectly legally.

Tell the "solicitor" to pound sand somewhere.

R.Boreal

Unbelievable. I must report, unfortunately, that here in the US I see more and more topping by "professional" services. This is further exacerbated by the fact that when neighbors see it elsewhere, they sometimes then specifically REQUEST "cut it the same way like they did it over there."

And I don't think I'm too far out on a limb (pardon) by saying that if Education Queensland wanted some expert advice, someone to sit on their board to help ensure sound decisions on future tree contractors, that someone Down Under would do it for free. Especially considering the known damage that has already been done and the potential future hazards waiting in the wings from destroying trees as illustrated above.

This website and forum has SO MUCH valuable and free information. It amazes me that the people who make these bad decisions can't simply, quietly learn from their mistakes and make a note to check back here once in awhile to find one of the many legitamite svcs who speak out here and obviously know their trade. No, it's better to shout defensively at the top of your lungs and then sue. This way it disguises the fact you're an idiot. (Ya THINK?!??)

__________________
I'm not smug, but I do feel elevated.

tree c

Eric,
Unfortunately there are guys out there using the QAA logo and doing this type of crap work and I do agree it is crap work.
When the Qaa started all those years ago by some blokes and ladies who thought they needed a voice within the Arb industry.They formed what we all know as QUEENSLAND ARBORICULTURAL ASSOCIATION .To form an association you need a constitution. So they decided that membership should be open to all to build membership so that they could then make a difference through training an education.
When a constitution is written the problem is the only way to change it is at an AGM and you need 25 members to attend and vote on changes .Sucks I know but I did not make the rules up. Now here's the problem. people want us to change and whinge and carry on ,but don't come to the AGM to help let us change it. but finally at Arbor camp this year we got 23 and 3 proxy votes , another Arbor Camp plus. So we could finally start to get some real changes happening .
QAA is run by VOLUNTEERS voted in by members , people who really want make a difference. the problem there is that ,people who care enough to give up there free time with there family's and business they run are few and fare between most people sit back and complain from a distance but don,t give the guy's any help to change things so they can improve the industry. I have seen a lot, being on that committee for 7 years and 6 years(3 not on the committee) helping out with running of Arbor camps , climbing comps and training days etc. It has been a thorn in a lot of people side when it comes to what Qaa are doing to get rid of operators who don't adhere to AUSTRALIAN STANDARDS but thanks to a few people who gave a dame this year .Changes are happening (not a fast as some would like )but still happening.
Through sponsorship and through revenue created by QAA VOLUNTEERS the QAA will soon be able to put on full time Tec officer who will be paid to help run QAA so that more work can get done in the time frames acceptable to the members .
I wrote this to clarify some things I know NOT on behalf on the QAA but as a VOLUNTEER to an industry that has change dramicly over the past 12 years THANKS to guys who gave up time with there families ,friends and business.
If people who read this and decide they would like to help the QAA VOLUNTEERS out please give the QAA office a call on 07 38211488 as pro-active helpers are always welcomed as pro-active is better than re-active,

cheers
Simon Maloney
The BLOKE WHO GAVE SHIT AND DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

treevet

Man, it's got to be hard to get all 25 people, esp. volunteers, together to vote on things. Sounds like it is time to effect a rule change and lower that number to something reasonable and just effect a majority.

tree c

yeh mate

Thats what we did at the meeting ,so we can now move forward and create a better industry body that people are proud and want to belong to. As an association ,We have a 3rd of all tree bussiness as members in queensland no other association can say that . Now it's time to clean them up for the benifit of our industry,
cheers
simon

Eric Frei

Simon,

Who's cleaning what up?

I had a number of members asking if I was in the shit for what I had done.

What was clear was that there was no-one coming up and patting you on the back saying "good job Eric, thanks for exposing that and making some waves for improvement." Nah, more like where your flak jacket.

I also had people requesting/asking/informing me not to make an arborcamp video as QAA wants to and sell them, they dont want to see Arborcamp 2008 for free on Youtube . I also had that same person tell me that whatever arbor-camp videos I posted I should run by them first.

Sounds like fascism or censorship to me. Seems their primary motive is money then control. You mentioned cleaning up ... maybe all the way to the bank eh?

We have 2200 members and growing exponentially, if anyone has free time to help .... then help here, where we do more than give a shit but actually get shit happening and done.... no thanks to QAA. No fees, no membership fees, no delusional codes of conducts, no credibility selling stickers, no sweeping stuff under the carpet or backstabbing here ... fools, trolls and dumb asses will be swiftly dealt with though.

Tell me Simon, where does QAA funnel all it's training, into some cushy niche?

Why dont they have a list of every RTO in Australia with their fees for training?

Why is it when I rang one of the QAA associated by arms length trainers I was told maybe $4k for a dip arb from cert3, then it went to $5k ... then another guy I know got his for $3k. These are the words on the street, we're a wake up Simon. And for the record I went elsewhere, got a dip hort and dip arb for $1300 so stuff them.

Tell me, why haven't the QAA even bothered responding or sending a letter regarding this matter (slower than some govt place)?

I was also told that QAA is an inclusive association and they want all tree people to be members and then abide by their code of ethics ... as seen here they probably also believe in the tooth fairy and Santa.

Yes, people volunteer, like here every day. This forum being outside of the QAA has given more power than if it were within, it has become a watchdog for all.

I dont exclude QAA members, some are here but what I do notice is the clear lack of involvement, perhaps the same problem as your AGM's. I think (personal opinion) that they're scared to say what they think coz in the back rooms is the good ole boys with their daggers deciding who is a good guy and who aint. The phone calls, the emails, the little buddy chats with "mates and acquaintances" about who said what, where and who's getting that BCC contract etc might be just a figment of my imagination ... or many peoples but it's out there.

I was told QAA wants to work together, well, they can advertise here, they can post here, no-ones stopping them. But I aint paying a cracker to them, or lifting a finger, because as far as my business is concerned they offer me nothing, and have done nothing, and when I have complained stabbed me in the back.

I bet they cringe reading stuff like this, but I bet many others sit there nodding their head saying RIGHT ON EKKA.

It was pure coincidence that this case happened to nail such a great trail of BS. Tell me Simon, what would have changed without this specific case? Where would have it been exposed? Who would have cared and followed through to the point of being threatened by a range of people including a law suit. Remember, this is one of the QAA's members threatening to sue, hows that fit in with the ethical behaviour Simon?

There's a long way to go, QAA has it's path and we have ours here. My vision isn't clouded by geographical boundaries or what some clown in an organisation thinks I can and cant say. I also use this forum professionally to show what the real world is, and it's far from some lovely treed paradise but a battlefield of hacks and rogues.

Sadly, the QAA has helped a few fly a credibility flag, and some join just for it. But now the consumers of Queensland can see the magic act, real world.

__________________

tree c

Eric ,
what do i say? you came to one meeting on arbor camp committee .found out we all still pay to go to arbor camp and put our own money towards helping create something benificional to the industry and you never came back. maybe because you know everything.I'm sorry that you think that my last 10 years was waste of my time.shit should have gone fishing .no bugger you probly tell that was wrong to.
look all i am saying and you can qaa bash all you like. but you really don't have any idea on what we have tried to achieve and have.
-1 of cause my favourite ARBOR CAMP QUEENSLAND .Has create a show piece to people, what they can do and are required to do within the industry.
-2 An arborist in Queensland is now a trade and as such new apprenticeships , bring new people get new training -
-3 climbing comp have gone regional , people from up north are starting feel like they are part of Queensland instead of seating on the outside.
-4 oh&s packages - they went to as many tree people as qaa could find .may not be up to your standard but work place health and safety thought it was ok.
-5 paid office staff - so we manage web sites ,answer phone calls from people complaining about arborist giving them hell because they did not get the job. or people who do work that is no acceptable .manage all those funds you think the qaa put in the back area hidden. just to let you on little secret we don't and being the committee has cost me a fortune over the years but i did it because i could see change and i felt like we made a diffference.little did i know should have asked you.
-6 a business plan ,so our members can see we are trying to set goals and achieve them so that as volunteers we don't fall into a trap of being complacent.
7-a web site - so it's not up to your standard but a least we are trying and we will improve -and it's not what qaa is about .
-8 training - we are trying to put together a training register that all trainers can apply for but again we had to make some changes at the meeting which we did.
-9 NO!! I don't need to go on because no matter what we do as volunteers it will never be good enough.
you may think your being pro-active in condemning people trying make a difference but really your just beating your own drum. constructive chatter is great .but you want
why do you want qaa to respond to you .to validate your oppinion of them or to ridicule them some more.if i could suggest one thing to the new committee is not to respond as you can not help the situation just take up more valuable time away from what they are trying to achieve and time they could better spend with there families.

cheers
simon
sorry spelling not my strong suit

Eric Frei

Oh, what trade has fresh off the boat Islanders knocking on doors competing with licenced registered trades people? Ours. I tell many, get a proper trade that excludes door knocking hacks.

Prior there were schemes anyway for hiring staff. The financial implications are not a valid argument and have been available anyway, other states have had them too.

Name me 1 case Simon where QAA has assisted in prosecuting a hack? Name me one. Oh, they join that's right, get stickers for their truck and the Arborage magazine posted out.

Arborcamp, to many is seen as a great thing, I see it that way to, and know that you pour tons of energy into it. It's a very good thing, I have always told you that, I dont see it as QAA's thing but more your thing, hats off to you. I was on the "arborcamp comittee thing" but the travel from Springwood to Caboolture in peak time was a killer. I recall sitting around that table at the pub, remember the conversation very well. I asked a question that mattered a lot to me, what happens with all the money in the bank?

Answer was, "we get interest on it."

I lost interest, the things that mattered to me weren't being addressed, sitting across was ole favourite who said my video's were a legal liability just like telling the truth here. I lost a lot of interest, seemed the real issues for me weren't being addressed, seemed the hacks would go on under the cloak of membership and I'd be fingered as some asshole (wasn't far off eh) so I pissed off.

You have no idea of the the hacks here, what has QAA done to address it? What pro-active (and funded) effort have they made to inform the public, councils, govt bodies etc to deal with them?

Now, the whole climbing comp thing Simon fails to realise climbing arborists etc are just a small part of what arborists are and do. How many competitors vs arborists/tree people is there? Not many. Many consult, trim, sloth around a tree and get her done (like me) but it's just a part of what we do and not what the entire career is about.

Oh this will be good, qualified (TAA40104 trainers) have to apply with YOU (not even an RTO) to get on some register, is there a fee? I bet there is.

People's, here's how simple this is.

Australia has AQF (Australian Qualifications Framework) training delivered by RTO's (Registered Training Organisations) controlled by government to be compliant and to a standard. Training records must be retained for 30 years so any ticks and flicks, accidents down the track etc can be investigated. These RTO's function as either govt TAFE schools or private colleges etc. They operate absolutely independent of any industry organisation, you do not and should not have to be a member of anything to get training.

Now, step by step, the government has made this very easy for you (and trainers) about where to get it.

You visit this website NTIS -- view NTIS trainingpackage

Get used to this place, it's the bible for training. Our arb stuff is the RTF03 thing down the page.

For example, here's a list of places that does CertIII Arb
NTIS -- view NTIS qualification RTF30203


Here's the list of places that do Dip Arb.

NTIS -- view NTIS qualification RTF50203

So, what do trainers do? They will try to get onboard with those RTO's.

How good is your training?

As good as the trainer, and yes, regardless of what the AQF might actually believe there will be differences. Like the way I will teach felling a side leaning tree is definately not the way I was shown (which was not quite correct). The scope will say "fell trees" but you may not have a tutor who knows all the techniques.

Look here, this is an example.
NTIS -- view unit RTF3007A

In the training there's two components, the endorsed (which is the competencies in the package as seen in the link above) and the non-endorsed which is the material you learn from.

Your training material is non-endorsed and can vary however the outcome to competencies is supposed to be consistent and the same across the board, however I assure it is not.

What this means is trainers can and do vary and develop their own material, they're simply way out there in front with techniques and technology.

Now think very carefully, very soon I will be a trainer, do you think I need to or should or want the QAA anywhere between me, my RTO and my learners? Is it just another "control" mechanism by them? I think so.

People, QAA members or otherwise, have already got absolute access to RTO's, just follow the links above.

I'll also link this into a new thread I'll start about Arboriculture Training in Australia NO STRINGS ATTACHED

Arboriculture| Arborist Training in Australia| Where to get it step by step

Teach a man to fish you feed him for life.

__________________

newguy18

Many good points Eric.So how long before your offering training?personally if i could come up with enough money i'd think its worthwhile to come meet you and learn a thing or two,because your a really smart man and an excellent arborist.

__________________
Have your say join us today.

I ship USA saws out of the USA

old schooler

Eric Frei

I have one assignment left, and it's a doozy business unit. Believe it or not amongst this place and work I have been doing it.

I need to complete that TAA40104 first. Then I need to develop training and assessment tools. Then I need an RTO and a venue.

Another way around it is this. Get any RTO to ROPL you, but remember, the ROPL process is assessing the competency which is endorsed. How you get the skills to meet that competency is from the non-endorsed learning which can be obtained directly from me.

So I can also train out the non-endorsed component so you have the skills and knowledge to meet the competencies.

What the learner has to watch out for in all of this is that they're getting the right information from people with the right knowledge and skill. A TAA trainer knows how to dissect the unit and address the competencies and provide the evidence.

Hypothetically, you want to complete a unit on soils but have no idea where to start etc. It might cost you $300 to ROPL that unit but what do you need to know and where do you get it? So I come along and say, "Bill, I can provide you with the information you require, show you what to do, how to do it, how to record it so you can submit it as evidence ... for a fee" or you could get smart and use the search button here and start asking questions and teach yourself etc then gather the evidence and submit it. There's many ways, there's assessment and there's teaching, not always do the two have to be together.

Most of the stuff past certIII is ROPL'd here, some go to TAFE etc and get taught though, just depends on the individual. Sometimes people have been doing a job and know a lot about that field so going to TAFE to hear what you already know can be boring and a waste of time. Better you just look at the competencies and supply the evidence.

Knowing what I know now I could have done my certIII in half the time for half the cost. Why? Because I already knew the bulk of it and could have just submitted the evidence with a college that ROPL'd, paid a private tutor for the things I needed to know etc but I find most the stuff myself anyway. I buy the books, videos etc and learn.

Lets look at Treevet. I reckon I could near on ROPL that guy to Dip Arb, just a matter of getting the evidence, he has most the knowledge, and what he misses he'll find here or on Google etc.

Now what the heck do QAA have to get involved with any of this for?

One other great area of concern. As the QAA's list of trainers might be either application or fee based etc it will give you a biased and tainted view. You wont get to see all the RTO's and trainers only those that are "in bed with them". I would say it is near a breach of the laws and regulations the government has on access to training. It is certainly a very poor practice by them. If anyone was to compose such a list it should be entirely neutral and list everyone suitably qualified FREE Australia wide.

Imagine, some member with the QAA visits that website page, are they getting the true picture or just a slice of what the QAA has invented? Of course they are not getting the true picture.

To be a trainer you have to have TAA40104 and can only usually train units you have competency in. So going to some-one with an ISA cert Arb and no TAA would be a joke here in Australia and they could not and should not certify you anything. I see the test page and it only has their current paying for advertising trainer on there, funny that. If I'm wrong then tell us all about it, how the thing works, what the criteria is for being on that list, what the process is.

Like I said, we're like an independent watch dog here. And lordy help you if in fact it's a money grab controlling exercise.

__________________

Eric Frei

Oh, how did I miss this little gem?

So beating my own drum was researching and documenting tree atrocities by the govt which resulted in QBuild and QAA to change was it? And those changes affect how many? And how many attempts have I made in the past? Like I said, no pats on the back mate just more back stabbing, you guys train that?

Recommending people do not respond, tch tch tch, how far did that dummy spit go, the next suburb?

Ever stopped to consider what others besides the QAA are trying to achieve? And the countless hours of work put in, putting themselves on the line for the betterment and benefit of the industry? You ever been threatened because you took a stand for a tree? You ever been intimidated because you believed in a cause and had a viable opinion?

It's funny how a debate on a topic like training, or stickers, or whatever gets twisted into condemning people, people around here know my motto is go hard on the topic not the people. You just cant do that can you, gets personal and ugly doesn't it.

Thanks for reinforcing why I walked away from the QAA 2 years ago, nothings changed, just shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic.

Readers, here in Australia we do not have to belong to an association for anything.... especially training. The mere tone of Tree C's post and the spiteful behaviour of telling a new committee to have nothing to do with me is clear evidence of how they'll restrict you as say a trainer and a professional. Watch your back.

This site has been operating almost 2 years and they do not have a link to it, they'd perhaps prefer it simply didn't exist. They do link to a USA site that's about as exciting as watching the grass grow and isn't as focused toward the Australian market as this site.

It's reasonable to expect an organisation that has industry members to respond in a timely manner to a case as strong as this, to do otherwise is simply an embarrasment, they should have been the first cab off the rank with this issue but they went into damage control mode IMO.

Thank goodness we have this place, we need it.

__________________