Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues| NT school tree kills boy and were advised!

Ekka · 2nd September 2008, 01:28 AM

Queensland Arboricultural Association

I need to explicitly clear this area, below is the two posts we are looking at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

And this is a QAA member, imagine that, just as well I am not because it is against the QAA's rules to do what I just did, expose their own crap.

Anybody, yes anybody can be a QAA member, just pay your dues, it means nothing and you can see here first hand how all of this is a farce involving not only the government from top to bottom but industry organisations. And I assure you this is the tip of the iceberg, this time I had my camera to show you but it's rampant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Here's a copy of the email sent to QAA, School, Dept Education, Q-Build and Ombudsman

Quote:

It shows clearly how the industries representative body in Queensland (QAA) has little effect for making any difference to their members and is used as a marketing tool by "unqualified and unethical" operators to lure some credibility.

Now, below is blurb from this page of their website. I have bolded the pieces where the hacks would really home in. This is a big deal and the world needs to see how this "club" has managed to operate for years now.

Also, you need to realise that this association has managed to influence many councils in Queensland to suggest or recommend that consulting arborists belong to them!

Pay very close attention to their own words and how they in fact encourage people to use their logo's. I'm not making this up, this is from their website.

Quote:

Starting with your advertising, you will receive a computer disk with the QAA logo on it which entitles you to use our logo on your business cards, newspaper adverts & in the phone book. We will also send you two stickers, which are great to put on your equipment e.g. Trucks, chippers and any other equipment that is going to catch the publics eye. As we all know when you are a member of an association you look more professional & your work is to a standard that usually stands out from the rest.

So you can see I had to bold the whole lot but I did make the really ugly part of this "deal" a lot bigger. They are soliciting credibility.

And it's also good to quote it because if they pull it down we have a copy.

Now, you might argue, yeah but it does say work to a standard.

Who enforces that standard?

What disciplinary measures exist for those who do not abide by the standards?

Well, here I present further evidence from this webpage. Again I will bold the areas pertaining to this thread.

Code of Ethics

Quote:

1. To conduct themselves professionally, respecting the rights of clients, their representatives and others associated with a project.
2. To respect any confidence gained in the conduct of the profession.
3. Not to engage in Arboricultural practices restricted by law of professional agreement.
4. Not to publicly condemn, criticise or disvalue another members work.
5. To ensure that any all Arboricultural works are defined and fees chargeable agreed to in writing.
6. To ensure that any recommended scale of fees and charges published by the Association is used as a guide rather than a minimum fee.
7. To maintain professional competence by keeping abreast of new information and developments.
8. To recognize responsibility to the community and the environment in protecting each from exposure to undue actual or potential hazards.
9. To ensure that the qualification ‘Member of the Queensland Arboricultural Association’, its grades and abbreviations are used only in conjunction with a member’s name. For example, a member must ensure that his or her employer does not use this qualification in a manner unacceptable to the Association.
10. To ensure that neither the Association emblem nor logo are displayed in any manner place or form without the specific authorisation for the executive committee.

I hope you are laughing as hard as I. Heck, just above they say join and we send you all this stuff to make you look professional and then read #10 above ... it says you need some executive committee's OK to display the logo. I wonder if they know what day it is?

Now serious, this is a real life true thing going on here. Read for yourself #4 ... it sort of cements how you cannot expose hacks.

You know, some time ago I had all sorts of kooks telling me I cannot video, I cannot take pictures, I cannot this and that ... and Google goes out and photographs the whole planet.

Think about it, do you enjoy working for a boss who knows less than you?

How do you feel when you want to share something with some-one who has less knowledge on the subject but they BLOW YOU OFF? Happened at this school, ole original principal blew me off and it motivated me more to go above her head .... and hello, new principal now.

Now I can refer to this thread and this post when my Professional Idemnity Insurer asks why I am not a member of an industry representative body. I can also refer to it in all my reports as to why I am not a member of this or alike. Mind you, the alike here in Australia is the ISAAC, which also have ZERO acceptance criteria. So why the hell would I bother joining organisations that any ole TOM, DICK or HARRY including perhaps my dog could join?

Frankly, if the BSA were run the same we'd have condemned houses from the foundation pours coz some hack would be skimping out on something but have a ticket to ride.

There's the IACA (Institute of Australian Consulting Arboriculturists) but I cant join that nor do I really want to.

Here's their problem, from their website.

Quote:

5.0 CRITERIA FOR MEMBERSHIP

5.1 Membership will be restricted to individuals who are practitioners involved in an Arboricultural Consultancy practice as the majority of their business activity. This allows for the undertaking or supervision of scientific testing or research and associated reporting on trees, and related tree management and tree protection practices, e.g. the installation of tree protection zones on construction sites, or root investigation excavation, and where no situation of a conflict of interest could arise that would bias or unduly influence the provision of their consultancy service.
5.2 Further to 5.1 and 5.3, eligibility for membership is excluded to Arboriculturists involved in the undertaking of tree pruning or removal works, or the management, or ownership of such businesses, due to the obvious potential for ethical conflict between these activities and the consultancy process.

You do need a Diploma to get in but tough luck for me, I do real tree work, and they exclude people who do real tree work.

Now no doubt a lot of these people lurk here. They can perhaps now see what they look like from the outside looking in. I'm not alone on this just got enough balls to publish it. They really dont like the truth, and they really dont like change. But I'm sure that now with Treeworld exposure they really have to deal with it. You know, individuals like me are afforded privacy but corporations are not, never forget that. They cannot do to you or I as much as we can do to them, whether it be QAA or Coles Myer. Also, did you know that these non for profit inc places are supposed to have transparent financials and send those to their members annually? But I heard a rumour that they dont even know how much money they have in the bank.

For reading this far, and do realise you have the opportunity to comment. Also bear in mind that this place is run free for all to use, doesn't cost you a cent, and this thread has brought about great change ... change that most likely would have been censored and swept under the carpet of clubrooms for ever, so dont deface it.

And perhaps if you are paying membership dues to an organisation simply so your tree reports have something like "member bla bla bla" on it, perhaps save a few bucks and link to this post as to why you are a member of treeworld and that's your association equivalent.

I can comfortably say that this place, with what is posted here, has the content to elevate tree workers to a diploma status if they are prepared to put the time in. The information is here, the people are here. We are also a source of media and advertising that is, like the late Don Chip said .... "keeping the bastards honest".

Like the video and camera thing you are entitled to free speech and expression. Have a great day and take a little time to smell the trees, why not touch a few while you are it.

treeseer · 2nd September 2008, 04:02 AM

"eligibility for membership is excluded to Arboriculturists involved in the undertaking of tree pruning or removal works, or the management, or ownership of such businesses, due to the obvious potential for ethical conflict between these activities and the consultancy process. "

Eric, thankfully the US consultants' org ASCA does not make such an exclusion, tho many members (and ASCA's former exec) make a point of how their reports are superior because they are "pure" consultants who are uninvolved with the business of tree care. Their view fortunately is undone by the fact that by disconnecting from business they get disconnected from the work, and can lose touch.

As for QAA's non-criticism policy--as part of their ethics(!)--that is oxymoronic.

But as for gaining credibility by belonging to an org, you failed

to note that they say it USUALLY means their work is better, because at least members are connected to a network in a readily verifiable way. For your criticism to be valid, it must be more precise

Now comes the internet, and your fine work here. If it serves to shake up the orgs and push them to clean up and advance, great. But orgs still have a role for the non-tech folks, and for some other benefits. But to get instant and automatic credibility, membership is just a start.

Treeworld cannot replace orgs, but it can be powerful augmentation to the development of the industry.

newguy18 · 2nd September 2008, 06:09 AM

I don't know Guy,after wittnessing a memeber of the tcia top several trees i'm not sure about thier org as it seems they'll give a membership to anyone.

Ekka · 2nd September 2008, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeseer

Treeworld cannot replace orgs, but it can be powerful augmentation to the development of the industry.

Why not? Most orgs members never attend a meeting and just receive a newsletter. A forum as active as this with this amount of information would a be dream for them.

treeseer · 2nd September 2008, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

A forum as active as this with this amount of information would a be dream for them.

And that's why I referred the 200+ members of the ASCA listserv here for the Trichoderma research because their forum has a 500 kb limit and no one could figure out how to screen info to be posted on their website. Hence, under "News" there is only a blurb from 2002...

ng you are right; tcia and isa do not require anything of members but due$. not sure they should. Orgs typically ride on the backs of a few concerned and active members, who pull a lot of dead weight.

Blame the bureaucracies all you want, but it's the silent majority of inactive members who retard progress.

Ekka · 12th September 2008, 08:05 PM

For the record, to date the QAA still hasn't responded and Lances Tree Care continue to advertise the QAA's logo.

And also for the record, they could easily post something here, even register as Mr Ostrich and attempt to lay some logical explanation down as to their sales of credibility.

But they do not.

newguy18 · 13th September 2008, 02:27 AM

They're probabley to embarressed,they ae hacks,supported by an organization that has it concern wrapped around thier wallet instead of actually promoteing proper treecare.Me personally,i'd rather take my valuable time,even if it meant me spending my own hard earned money to help take care of trees properly than hack them to bits like every other tree service in my area,i get cut down alot because of it and have lost jobs because of things they say about me,but i've also taking 12 regular clients from one of them,and its suprising that when a customer looks up what i'm talking about,they find i'm usually right and know what i'm talking about.On that note i've refered most of my competition here,told them my user name and everythign,i don't see one of them here now do i?

Ekka · 13th September 2008, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy18

On that note i've refered most of my competition here,told them my user name and everythign,i don't see one of them here now do i?

Yes, far better to lay low and back stab than face the music.

newguy18 · 13th September 2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

Yes, far better to lay low and back stab than face the music.

Yeah,so true Eric.

olyman · 14th September 2008, 10:17 AM

eric--tho havent commented in a while--praise to ya man--that was great--damn people with tooooo much authority!!!!!! goes straight to their hollow head---good to have people in the ranks not afraid to shake a few trees-----i do around here--and authoritys dont like it------tough!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ekka · 14th September 2008, 10:35 AM

Good on you, if we turn a blind eye then poor practices become standard practices. And it's easier to have authorities implement internal procedures and standards than have politicians pass laws.

Imagine if all schools, public places and parks, and commercial properties insisted upon qualified people only, that would cut the useless hacks out quick smart.

Ekka · 18th September 2008, 02:20 PM

In October the school wil be celebrating it's 25th anniversary.

A newsletter will be going out and a request was made for sponsors. For $10 you get to sponsor a page and for a further $10 a business card sized ad somewhere like the back page etc.

So I fronted to the office this morning, handed over $20 and a business card (copy attached).

Not 5 minutes later received a call from the principal.

In a nutshell he wouldn't place the "ad" unless the URL to my palmtreeservices website was removed (underlined in red).

Reason being, because that website has a link to Treeworld which has this thread and it would be "unsavoury" to have any negative connotations about the school possibly accessed.

You know, that palmtreeservices website is #1 in Google with some really great information, it's my draw card. And Treeworld, well lets see, and as I informed him, some 35,000+ posts, tons of really great information denied because of this thread. And this thread has what, 41 posts or something.

I told him I now have to escalate the matter to Dept of Education as there's no clear advertising guidelines and censorship is being exhibited by the school, or him or whatever ... either way we need clarification ... especially as these are the website powerhouses of the tree business and are being screened out like some North Korean nuclear program.

Seems people aren't quite ready in Queensland to realise people have freedom of speech, no wonder the current govt is having a lot of egg spread on it's face with FOI document seizures making press lately, seems a cover up mentality is the preferred mentality. A lot of good came out of this thread and will continue to do so.

Sadly there's those who'll never get the point or think it's some personal battle, the point is censorship is not the way ahead, locking down is not the way ahead, not facing facts/dealing with them is not the way ahead, remaining mute and not contributing is not the way ahead. I think most sensible people get the picture, lets hope Queensland Education does.

By the way, I wonder if they'll sensor the newspapers or persue them on some flippant grounds for this recently.

Advice labelled ‘weird’ - Local News - News | Quest News

Quote:

LOGAN, June 27: Children as young as five have been told to wear deodorant to school and reapply once a day.

The edict was in Chatswood Hills State School’s June 13 newsletter under the title “personal hygiene”.

“Please remind your children that, although it is winter, it is still necessary to apply deodorant in the morning and reapply once during the school day,” the newsletter read. “Aerosols are not permitted but roll-on brands are encouraged.”

The Albert & Logan News spoke to parents, who found the request “odd” and “weird”, while Queensland University of Technology child psychology lecturer Dr Marilyn Campbell said it was “laughable”.

Dr Campbell, a teacher for 20 years, was shocked.

“I haven’t heard of such rubbish in my life,” she said. “You have to be joking, asking (them) to reapply during the day.

“I don’t need to do that and I doubt children would.”

Dr Campbell said she had concerns about anxieties such a request could bring.

“Will this lead to pretend shaving for the boys, or make-up for the girls?” she said. “I don’t think it is right; totally unnecessary.

“It’s making (pupils) super clean, restricting them from their normal experience.”

An Education Queensland spokeswoman said in a statement that the health and wellbeing of staff and students at all Queensland state schools was the department’s priority at all times.

“Students wearing deodorant is a parental decision and Education Queensland has no policy enforcing its use,” she said.

“Schools may become involved if there is an issue related to student hygiene or if the issue is impacting on students’ social and emotional development, but this is done at a local level, as the need arises.”

She said schools may also offer reminders to deal with the issue “holistically and sensitively”, so individuals were not singled out.

And whilst this is not the same school (but still a QLD EDU School nearby) it shows the mindset, and in the end they changed their "rules" to accomodate the best shoes made.

School threat to expel girl who wore Doc Martens | The Courier-Mail

Quote:

Monique Ross of Albert and Logan News

March 14, 2008 11:05am

A HIGH school south of Brisbane has threatened to kick a girl out on just her second day because of the shoes she was wearing.
Miranda Gluer bought her daughters Olivia and Miranda Doc Martens ankle boots for school because she didn't want to keep replacing cheap shoes every few months.

But despite the shoes abiding by Shailer Park High School's dress code – black, leather and lace-up, and with a reinforced toe and long-lasting sole – the girls were told the shoes were unsuitable and they would have to get new pairs.

"Olivia was threatened with suspension on her second day of Year 8," Ms Gluer said.

Education Queensland said the school expected high uniform and dress standards and sought the support of parents.

From Queensland ... The Smart State!

Ekka · 19th September 2008, 08:28 PM

It just gets better at this place.

Listen to this. Today I went to pick my kid up. Was sitting on the bench in the gazebo (not shown in old Google pic) facing the class room she's in waiting for the bell.

The groundsman walks up behind me and asks if I'm Eric Frei.

I say yes and he lets it fly. Reckons he's knows where I live and is gonne "pay a visit". Reckons I'm some keyboard hero etc and that I write lies.

Straight away I said, "this conversation needs to be moved up to the principal's office right now".

He refused.

Then I confirmed with him it was him making the mulch volcano's (no lie there). I then asked if his wife works in the office to which he said no. Listen, hmmm, I said did she work there at all etc ... yes, she has now moved (nice play on words eh

). So where is the lie I asked?

Now we're real close maybe inches are separating us. I inform him I can write what I do and I front situations before I type, and that he can use the forum too! But no lies have been printed. He told me to get off school property and I informed him that it's not his call and the whole discussion is out of line and needs to be reported and that I will be typing this story on the forum.

He continued.

He doesn't care, he knows where I live and he's gonna sort it.

------

Right at the start of this a cleaner was where marked, dont know where she went. But as soon as this guy left within like 30 seconds the principal, a lady with the principal and the cleaner go into to garden shed where the groundsman went. They were in there maybe 5 minutes but the bell went and I was tending to my kid.

Then, now check this out. The principal just starts walking back toward his office like nothing happened so I called him and we had a chat.

I mentioned the discussion and threats etc and also told him the story will be on the net and reported to EDU QLD.

Imagine the consequences if I had done to a staff member what this guy did to me? Threatening and intimidating people, way out of line.

------------

Now take a long hard look at this. A parent trying to help the school at no cost gets blown off, then that parent takes his story further and writes it with evidence.

You know why I take pictures? Because if I just told it then they'd deny it.

You know why I publish it? Because otherwise they wouldn't give a flying rats ass and nothing would change.

So, I got years of going to this school, years. In every instance I have been civil, followed protocol, talked to the relevant people but sadly ... it wasn't until I printed this here on the forum that it mattered ...

now you're the censored tree company by the educators of the "SMART STATE"

Who knows, maybe EDU QLD will try to censor all of Google, just as well they dont control it!

You decide.

And wouldn't it be funny if Lances Tree got printed ads in their newsletter, that would be the cream on the cake.

JayD · 19th September 2008, 09:26 PM

This is really unacceptable behaviour from school employee's. Mr principle what are you going to do about this violent affront on Mr Frei on your school grounds?

I for one feel utterly disgusted this happened to a man only trying to make sure work carried out on your school is done properly and to Australian Standards.

Imagine someone carrying out plumber's work unlicenced or without a clue on something that could take someones life! The authorities would jump out of choppers to stop them!

Well it's no different with Arborist's. We are highly trained to climb trees and assess their safety or lack of. Do you realise that its takes five years, providing you pass all modules, to become an Arborist with Mr Frei's credentials? The gentleman has not one diploma but two.I think he has earned the right to be listened to with respect and Not Threated By One Of Your Staff

To a point it's reasonably easy to spot an untrained legend, they generally have no PPE, (personal protection equipment) they also use saws in a tree which would make an Arborist cringe.

Mr Frei does not stand alone here, he represents Arborists around the world. Now that he's been threatened we are all concerned.

I am following this thread waiting for a response from you.This is simply not good enough.

JayD
A-One Tree Services

TrevMcRev · 19th September 2008, 10:31 PM

What negligent fools run this school.

Fancy having the opportunity for FREE advice that would normally cost hundreds of dollars from a well credentialed professional in their field, only to blow it off.

Some groundskeepers are wise enough to know the limits of what they know, and take the advice of professionals when a subject is outside their limits.

Others think that the 50 year out of date information handed down to them is still valid today. Science has taught us plenty. There have been many advances in tree science since. Just 100 years ago medical "Science" had some pretty bizzare beliefs & treatments too.

What other substandard practices are supported at this school.

OutofMytree · 19th September 2008, 10:41 PM

With three kids in school I pay close attention to this sort of thread. Good onya Ekka for saying out loud what others probably thought.

I read the entire coroners report for the incident in NT. The young boy was the same age as my youngest son. I challenge any parent to read that report and not feel sick to their stomachs over what was clearly an avoidable "accident".

It is sad that any school, in the wake of that incident, would hesitate to use the skills of a qualified arborist to ensure safety for all concerned. I wonder if the school principal can spell p-u-b-l-i-c-l-i-a-b-i-l-i-t-y.

Ekka · 19th September 2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevMcRev

What other substandard practices are supported at this school.

Well, staff interaction is a concern. Emailing the education dept is like writing to a vacuum, you get nothing, not even an automated reply.

I just tried but cant send, seems their whole site is down.
http://education.qld.gov.au/

Give it a try, maybe they'll blame that on me too!

newguy18 · 20th September 2008, 12:11 AM

good on you Eric for 3 things,
1.you started this thread to show that these people obviously don't care who does they're work and in return it makes the tree unsafe,which can lead to accident's,i'mmsuprised with a thread like this going that the parents of the boy who were killed aren't sueing.
2.Exposing one of the tree companieswho have been deemed by the stae of queensland as a good buisness.
3.Taking your precious time to volunteer to show that the tree[s]in question are hazerdous and needed the skills of an arborist to reduce that risk.

I challenge the princepal,or any of the school staff to come on here and tell they're side of the story,you can't hide forever.

Ekka · 10th October 2008, 04:00 PM

Got this today.

Quote:

Attention: Eric Frei

We act for Lance Batchelor of “Lance’s Tree Care Service”.

We would refer you to recent forum posts on the Tree World internet site by you using your username “Ekka”.

In some of these posts by you, you have published photographs as well as our client’s advertisement in the Alberton Logan News. Your descriptions of what some of the photographs depict are clearly in error and misleading (e.g. the photograph of the off-sider who is allegedly cutting without chainsaw pants or chaps and no helmet does not show that at all. The picture in fact is of the worker walking behind the machine. Your description is clearly misleading and false and is defamatory in its content.

You have also alleged that our client lacks qualifications and have linked this to his advertisement in the newspaper. We are instructed that our client holds a Certificate as a Level 2 Arborist and is also of member of the QAA.

We are instructed to request that you immediately remove the photographs and our client’s advertisement from the forum site. If you fail to do so within seven (7) days we shall seek our client’s instructions to commence legal proceedings against you for injunctions and / or damages.

PHILLIP COOKE

Barbeler & Cooke Solicitors

Logan Law Chambers 21 Dennis Road,

Springwood, Qld, 4127
T 07 3808 2393

F 07 3208 8780

PO Box 1105, Springwood BC, QLD 4127 Australia

Galbee · 10th October 2008, 04:22 PM

Ooh these people are annoying send a reply with the posted photos and a link to this post then see the solicitors response.

I see no helmet chainsaw pants or a chipper

or here

yep admitedly This bloke is feeding the chipper without hearing protection, eye protection or a helmet.

Yep cutting without chainsaw pants or chaps and no helmet.

Ekka · 10th October 2008, 04:24 PM

It appears the solicitor PHILLIP COOKE is having difficulty reading the post concerned.

So I'll help you out Phillip.

It goes like this, the words that go with a picture are above the picture not below, so in your email you contested this picture but read the words above the picture. Now if I had not taken any photos then you'd argue I was making this all up however knowing that a picture is worth a thousand words I took these to back up what I witnessed.

Now you may contest that you cannot see him feeding the chipper but I was there and saw him feeding it. As far as other pictures go Phillip how can they be misleading? Impossible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka

This bloke here feeding the chipper without hearing protection, eye protection or a helmet.

Phillip, you really think that all these pictures need to go? You honestly believe they're all some photo shop made up rubbish?

Seems to me you need to re-evaluate your client and the law, I am yet to see or hear of such suppression of fact, lordy, Russia has arrived.

Ekka · 10th October 2008, 04:32 PM

Copy of email sent to Phillip the solicitor just now.

Quote:

Phillip

As far as I'm aware photo's dont lie.

There's the opportunity to comment and rectify but certainly not delete the lot of them. Lance himself could have clarified his qualifications however they're not even on his website ... furthermore you shouldn't even call yourself an Arborist till you attain Level3 so if he refers to himself as such then you need to address that ... especially if he advertises as such because that would be breaking the law.

By the way I have posted your email on the site so everyone can see what goes on, including the client, Q-Build, Dept of Education, QAA etc.

I suggest you read the enitre thread. The post with your email starts here.
Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues| NT school tree kills boy and were advised!

If Lance indeed does hold a cert2 in Arboriculture then we can note that. None of those pictures are lies, they are what they are and as far as I know there's no law saying we cannot take pictures or show them, of course if I'm wrong then you may inform me of such law however my research shows I have every right to take pictures and post them.

It's a public school, my 2 children go there, and I had every right to be there as my children were in "holiday care" during school holidays.

Not sure where you or your client want to go with this but it might be the first case ever against a public free speech forum ... and the irony is that due to your clients conduct and blatant disregard for OHS matters that Q-Build changed policy state wide and QAA is ammending it's criteria for advertising.

I think you need to re-assess your client. And dont forget, your client was never denied the opportunity to comment and rectify matters on the forum or with me etc, he has never ever made contact with me although his climber did ring and threaten.

Regards
Eric Frei

pomie · 10th October 2008, 04:48 PM

maybe you should phone up work place health safety ,to chat to the lawyer,i wonder where the raf or jms forms are must be in the tool box with the cHAPS and there hearing

pomie · 10th October 2008, 05:21 PM

about 2 months ago LT care phoned to ask if i was free to do some climbing ,i said yes ,and mentioned that i dont prune with spikes or lop that must be why he never called be back adleast i can add him to my black list and i never lost a days money

i work for a guy he turns 56 next year ,andhe has lerned to prune spikless and not top so even lance can do it if he wants to when you get your training cert put a training cource together for him he needs it ha ha

Ekka · 10th October 2008, 05:35 PM

For all who want a paper record.

Up to post 53 is contained in the PDF link below. Regardless of what the outcome is you can download this PDF and keep it as a record "verbatim" of this thread.

Show it to your kids, show them what the Smart State with it's threats and thugs is all about, show them what happens to the good guys of the business and then they'll no longer ask why things are as shitty as they are on Queensland arb scene, they'll understand.

15.5mb PDF document on the link below.

www.treeworld.info/manualuploads/chatswood.pdf

PS: I've also sent a special invite along to Googlebot.

Posts 54 to 74 are in the PDF here.

JayD · 10th October 2008, 06:31 PM

If this bloke holds a level 2 certificate he needs to go back and do a refresher course ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS THE TEACHERS OF LEVEL 2 TEACHIs correct saftey techniques whilst in the tree and on the ground...NO PPE???No secondary attachement point while cutting.

The very look of this bloke in the tree screams unqualified.

Then look at his groundie cutting with that saw to close to the kickback quadrant starring down at the bar if this thing kicks back it's going to split him in half...Does he hold a level 2 aswell? as this is the minimum qualification a member of your crew should hold!

Ekka · 10th October 2008, 06:44 PM

JayD

The owner of the business is Lance and it's that person who apparently holds a cert2 not any of the guys in the pics. Lance was not on that job site, he's not in any of the pictures. He's the business owner.

The climber on that job site has ZERO qualifications, I know that because he told me.

For the record the email from the solicitor was sent/received Friday, October 10, 2008 2:14 PM

pomie · 10th October 2008, 06:51 PM

QAA should pay 4 lawyer 4 you put there money where there mouths are since there are all these great arborists that run it they can c what has gone on. maybe get rid of the crap and they might get more arborists join up as members when they c the QAAdoing the right thing by there arborist membe

rs

JayD · 10th October 2008, 06:53 PM

What a joke..If they hold no qualifications at all how in the hell can one of them be the nominated qualified supervisor???It seems to me it just another bunch of hacks going about their work in a hit and miss manor.

treevet · 10th October 2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galbee

Ooh these people are annoying send a reply with the posted photos and a link to this post then see the solicitors response.

I see no helmet chainsaw pants or a chipper

or here

yep admitedly This bloke is feeding the chipper without hearing protection, eye protection or a helmet.

Yep cutting without chainsaw pants or chaps and no helmet.

Besides the kickback quadrant cut being made on the ground mentioned by JayD, I would not allow that upside down cut with no back cut or notch to be made on my jobs and I am an arborist of 40 years experience and ISA Certified and this is a very unsafe procedure as well for the climber in addition to giving no control on the fall of the piece.

2nd September 2008, 04:02 AM	#32
treeseer Former Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SE USA Posts: 821	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis "eligibility for membership is excluded to Arboriculturists involved in the undertaking of tree pruning or removal works, or the management, or ownership of such businesses, due to the obvious potential for ethical conflict between these activities and the consultancy process. " Eric, thankfully the US consultants' org ASCA does not make such an exclusion, tho many members (and ASCA's former exec) make a point of how their reports are superior because they are "pure" consultants who are uninvolved with the business of tree care. Their view fortunately is undone by the fact that by disconnecting from business they get disconnected from the work, and can lose touch. As for QAA's non-criticism policy--as part of their ethics(!)--that is oxymoronic. But as for gaining credibility by belonging to an org, you failed to note that they say it USUALLY means their work is better, because at least members are connected to a network in a readily verifiable way. For your criticism to be valid, it must be more precise Now comes the internet, and your fine work here. If it serves to shake up the orgs and push them to clean up and advance, great. But orgs still have a role for the non-tech folks, and for some other benefits. But to get instant and automatic credibility, membership is just a start. Treeworld cannot replace orgs, but it can be powerful augmentation to the development of the industry. Last edited by treeseer; 2nd September 2008 at 05:14 AM.

2nd September 2008, 06:09 AM	#33
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,204	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis I don't know Guy,after wittnessing a memeber of the tcia top several trees i'm not sure about thier org as it seems they'll give a membership to anyone. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

12th September 2008, 08:05 PM	#36
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,789	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis For the record, to date the QAA still hasn't responded and Lances Tree Care continue to advertise the QAA's logo. And also for the record, they could easily post something here, even register as Mr Ostrich and attempt to lay some logical explanation down as to their sales of credibility. But they do not. __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist

13th September 2008, 02:27 AM	#37
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,204	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis They're probabley to embarressed,they ae hacks,supported by an organization that has it concern wrapped around thier wallet instead of actually promoteing proper treecare.Me personally,i'd rather take my valuable time,even if it meant me spending my own hard earned money to help take care of trees properly than hack them to bits like every other tree service in my area,i get cut down alot because of it and have lost jobs because of things they say about me,but i've also taking 12 regular clients from one of them,and its suprising that when a customer looks up what i'm talking about,they find i'm usually right and know what i'm talking about.On that note i've refered most of my competition here,told them my user name and everythign,i don't see one of them here now do i? __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

14th September 2008, 10:17 AM	#40
olyman Semi-mature vigorous tree Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: iowa--usa Posts: 102	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis eric--tho havent commented in a while--praise to ya man--that was great--damn people with tooooo much authority!!!!!! goes straight to their hollow head---good to have people in the ranks not afraid to shake a few trees-----i do around here--and authoritys dont like it------tough!!!!!!!!!!!!!

14th September 2008, 10:35 AM	#41
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,789	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis Good on you, if we turn a blind eye then poor practices become standard practices. And it's easier to have authorities implement internal procedures and standards than have politicians pass laws. Imagine if all schools, public places and parks, and commercial properties insisted upon qualified people only, that would cut the useless hacks out quick smart. __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist

19th September 2008, 09:26 PM	#44
JayD Moderator - Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,435	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis This is really unacceptable behaviour from school employee's. Mr principle what are you going to do about this violent affront on Mr Frei on your school grounds? I for one feel utterly disgusted this happened to a man only trying to make sure work carried out on your school is done properly and to Australian Standards. Imagine someone carrying out plumber's work unlicenced or without a clue on something that could take someones life! The authorities would jump out of choppers to stop them! Well it's no different with Arborist's. We are highly trained to climb trees and assess their safety or lack of. Do you realise that its takes five years, providing you pass all modules, to become an Arborist with Mr Frei's credentials? The gentleman has not one diploma but two.I think he has earned the right to be listened to with respect and Not Threated By One Of Your Staff To a point it's reasonably easy to spot an untrained legend, they generally have no PPE, (personal protection equipment) they also use saws in a tree which would make an Arborist cringe. Mr Frei does not stand alone here, he represents Arborists around the world. Now that he's been threatened we are all concerned. I am following this thread waiting for a response from you.This is simply not good enough. JayD A-One Tree Services __________________ Level 4 Arborist

19th September 2008, 10:31 PM	#45
TrevMcRev Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Posts: 1,429	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis What negligent fools run this school. Fancy having the opportunity for FREE advice that would normally cost hundreds of dollars from a well credentialed professional in their field, only to blow it off. Some groundskeepers are wise enough to know the limits of what they know, and take the advice of professionals when a subject is outside their limits. Others think that the 50 year out of date information handed down to them is still valid today. Science has taught us plenty. There have been many advances in tree science since. Just 100 years ago medical "Science" had some pretty bizzare beliefs & treatments too. What other substandard practices are supported at this school. __________________ Total Tree Care - Melbourne Arborist Reports & Consulting,Tree Pruning & Removal \| Elm Leaf Beetle Treatment Melbourne www.treegear.com.au - Australia's Best Value Arborist Supplies

19th September 2008, 10:41 PM	#46
OutofMytree Former Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Perth Posts: 345	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis With three kids in school I pay close attention to this sort of thread. Good onya Ekka for saying out loud what others probably thought. I read the entire coroners report for the incident in NT. The young boy was the same age as my youngest son. I challenge any parent to read that report and not feel sick to their stomachs over what was clearly an avoidable "accident". It is sad that any school, in the wake of that incident, would hesitate to use the skills of a qualified arborist to ensure safety for all concerned. I wonder if the school principal can spell p-u-b-l-i-c-l-i-a-b-i-l-i-t-y.

20th September 2008, 12:11 AM	#48
newguy18 Part of the Furniture Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 5,204	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis good on you Eric for 3 things, 1.you started this thread to show that these people obviously don't care who does they're work and in return it makes the tree unsafe,which can lead to accident's,i'mmsuprised with a thread like this going that the parents of the boy who were killed aren't sueing. 2.Exposing one of the tree companieswho have been deemed by the stae of queensland as a good buisness. 3.Taking your precious time to volunteer to show that the tree[s]in question are hazerdous and needed the skills of an arborist to reduce that risk. I challenge the princepal,or any of the school staff to come on here and tell they're side of the story,you can't hide forever. __________________ Have your say join us today. I ship USA saws out of the USA old schooler

10th October 2008, 04:22 PM	#50
Galbee Veteran Heritage Status Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brisbane Aus Posts: 1,189	Re: I Told You So! Ooh these people are annoying send a reply with the posted photos and a link to this post then see the solicitors response. I see no helmet chainsaw pants or a chipper or here yep admitedly This bloke is feeding the chipper without hearing protection, eye protection or a helmet. Yep cutting without chainsaw pants or chaps and no helmet.

10th October 2008, 04:48 PM	#53
pomie Sappling Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: brisbane Posts: 49	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis maybe you should phone up work place health safety ,to chat to the lawyer,i wonder where the raf or jms forms are must be in the tool box with the cHAPS and there hearing

10th October 2008, 05:21 PM	#54
pomie Sappling Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: brisbane Posts: 49	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis about 2 months ago LT care phoned to ask if i was free to do some climbing ,i said yes ,and mentioned that i dont prune with spikes or lop that must be why he never called be back adleast i can add him to my black list and i never lost a days moneyi work for a guy he turns 56 next year ,andhe has lerned to prune spikless and not top so even lance can do it if he wants to when you get your training cert put a training cource together for him he needs it ha ha

10th October 2008, 05:35 PM	#55
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,789	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis For all who want a paper record. Up to post 53 is contained in the PDF link below. Regardless of what the outcome is you can download this PDF and keep it as a record "verbatim" of this thread. Show it to your kids, show them what the Smart State with it's threats and thugs is all about, show them what happens to the good guys of the business and then they'll no longer ask why things are as shitty as they are on Queensland arb scene, they'll understand. 15.5mb PDF document on the link below. www.treeworld.info/manualuploads/chatswood.pdf PS: I've also sent a special invite along to Googlebot. Posts 54 to 74 are in the PDF here. __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist Last edited by Ekka; 13th October 2008 at 05:46 PM. Reason: added link to new PDF

10th October 2008, 06:31 PM	#56
JayD Moderator - Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,435	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis If this bloke holds a level 2 certificate he needs to go back and do a refresher course ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS THE TEACHERS OF LEVEL 2 TEACHIs correct saftey techniques whilst in the tree and on the ground...NO PPE???No secondary attachement point while cutting. The very look of this bloke in the tree screams unqualified. Then look at his groundie cutting with that saw to close to the kickback quadrant starring down at the bar if this thing kicks back it's going to split him in half...Does he hold a level 2 aswell? as this is the minimum qualification a member of your crew should hold! __________________ Level 4 Arborist

10th October 2008, 06:44 PM	#57
Ekka Admin - Dip Arb & Hort & Seldom Wrong Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Brisbane Posts: 9,789	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis JayD The owner of the business is Lance and it's that person who apparently holds a cert2 not any of the guys in the pics. Lance was not on that job site, he's not in any of the pictures. He's the business owner. The climber on that job site has ZERO qualifications, I know that because he told me. For the record the email from the solicitor was sent/received Friday, October 10, 2008 2:14 PM __________________ TAS Training & Assessment Services\| Arb and Hort Training available here Free Online Tree Value Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online TPZ and SRZ AS4970-2009 Calculator by TreeWorld Free Online Tree Surface Area and Tree Volume Calculator by TreeWorld Free Tree and Green Industry Deep Link Directory ... Yes, I also SEO (Optimize) and build websites that fly high in Google Qualified Brisbane Tree Lopping \| Stump Grinding Brisbane Brisbane - Gold Coast Consulting Arborist, Tree and Arborist Reports \| Project Arborist

10th October 2008, 06:51 PM	#58
pomie Sappling Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: brisbane Posts: 49	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis QAA should pay 4 lawyer 4 you put there money where there mouths are since there are all these great arborists that run it they can c what has gone on. maybe get rid of the crap and they might get more arborists join up as members when they c the QAAdoing the right thing by there arborist members

10th October 2008, 06:53 PM	#59
JayD Moderator - Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,435	Re: Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues\| NT school tree kills boy and were advis What a joke..If they hold no qualifications at all how in the hell can one of them be the nominated qualified supervisor???It seems to me it just another bunch of hacks going about their work in a hit and miss manor. __________________ Level 4 Arborist

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