Chatswood Hills State School Tree Issues| NT school tree kills boy and were advised!

Eric Frei

I need to explicitly clear this area, below is the two posts we are looking at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka And this is a QAA member, imagine that, just as well I am not because it is against the QAA's rules to do what I just did, expose their own crap. Anybody, yes anybody can be a QAA member, just pay your dues, it means nothing and you can see here first hand how all of this is a farce involving not only the government from top to bottom but industry organisations. And I assure you this is the tip of the iceberg, this time I had my camera to show you but it's rampant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekka Here's a copy of the email sent to QAA, School, Dept Education, Q-Build and Ombudsman Quote: It shows clearly how the industries representative body in Queensland (QAA) has little effect for making any difference to their members and is used as a marketing tool by "unqualified and unethical" operators to lure some credibility.

Now, below is blurb from this page of their website. I have bolded the pieces where the hacks would really home in. This is a big deal and the world needs to see how this "club" has managed to operate for years now.

Also, you need to realise that this association has managed to influence many councils in Queensland to suggest or recommend that consulting arborists belong to them!

Pay very close attention to their own words and how they in fact encourage people to use their logo's. I'm not making this up, this is from their website.

So you can see I had to bold the whole lot but I did make the really ugly part of this "deal" a lot bigger. They are soliciting credibility. And it's also good to quote it because if they pull it down we have a copy.

Now, you might argue, yeah but it does say work to a standard.

Who enforces that standard?

What disciplinary measures exist for those who do not abide by the standards?

Well, here I present further evidence from this webpage. Again I will bold the areas pertaining to this thread.



Code of Ethics

I hope you are laughing as hard as I. Heck, just above they say join and we send you all this stuff to make you look professional and then read #10 above ... it says you need some executive committee's OK to display the logo. I wonder if they know what day it is?

Now serious, this is a real life true thing going on here. Read for yourself #4 ... it sort of cements how you cannot expose hacks.

You know, some time ago I had all sorts of kooks telling me I cannot video, I cannot take pictures, I cannot this and that ... and Google goes out and photographs the whole planet.

Think about it, do you enjoy working for a boss who knows less than you?

How do you feel when you want to share something with some-one who has less knowledge on the subject but they BLOW YOU OFF? Happened at this school, ole original principal blew me off and it motivated me more to go above her head .... and hello, new principal now.

Now I can refer to this thread and this post when my Professional Idemnity Insurer asks why I am not a member of an industry representative body. I can also refer to it in all my reports as to why I am not a member of this or alike. Mind you, the alike here in Australia is the ISAAC, which also have ZERO acceptance criteria. So why the hell would I bother joining organisations that any ole TOM, DICK or HARRY including perhaps my dog could join?

Frankly, if the BSA were run the same we'd have condemned houses from the foundation pours coz some hack would be skimping out on something but have a ticket to ride.

There's the IACA (Institute of Australian Consulting Arboriculturists) but I cant join that nor do I really want to.

Here's their problem, from their website.

You do need a Diploma to get in but tough luck for me, I do real tree work, and they exclude people who do real tree work.

Now no doubt a lot of these people lurk here. They can perhaps now see what they look like from the outside looking in. I'm not alone on this just got enough balls to publish it. They really dont like the truth, and they really dont like change. But I'm sure that now with Treeworld exposure they really have to deal with it. You know, individuals like me are afforded privacy but corporations are not, never forget that. They cannot do to you or I as much as we can do to them, whether it be QAA or Coles Myer. Also, did you know that these non for profit inc places are supposed to have transparent financials and send those to their members annually? But I heard a rumour that they dont even know how much money they have in the bank.

For reading this far, and do realise you have the opportunity to comment. Also bear in mind that this place is run free for all to use, doesn't cost you a cent, and this thread has brought about great change ... change that most likely would have been censored and swept under the carpet of clubrooms for ever, so dont deface it.

And perhaps if you are paying membership dues to an organisation simply so your tree reports have something like "member bla bla bla" on it, perhaps save a few bucks and link to this post as to why you are a member of treeworld and that's your association equivalent.

I can comfortably say that this place, with what is posted here, has the content to elevate tree workers to a diploma status if they are prepared to put the time in. The information is here, the people are here. We are also a source of media and advertising that is, like the late Don Chip said .... "keeping the bastards honest". Like the video and camera thing you are entitled to free speech and expression. Have a great day and take a little time to smell the trees, why not touch a few while you are it.

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treeseer

"eligibility for membership is excluded to Arboriculturists involved in the undertaking of tree pruning or removal works, or the management, or ownership of such businesses, due to the obvious potential for ethical conflict between these activities and the consultancy process. "

Eric, thankfully the US consultants' org ASCA does not make such an exclusion, tho many members (and ASCA's former exec) make a point of how their reports are superior because they are "pure" consultants who are uninvolved with the business of tree care. Their view fortunately is undone by the fact that by disconnecting from business they get disconnected from the work, and can lose touch.

As for QAA's non-criticism policy--as part of their ethics(!)--that is oxymoronic. But as for gaining credibility by belonging to an org, you failed to note that they say it USUALLY means their work is better, because at least members are connected to a network in a readily verifiable way. For your criticism to be valid, it must be more precise

Now comes the internet, and your fine work here. If it serves to shake up the orgs and push them to clean up and advance, great. But orgs still have a role for the non-tech folks, and for some other benefits. But to get instant and automatic credibility, membership is just a start.

Treeworld cannot replace orgs, but it can be powerful augmentation to the development of the industry.

newguy18

I don't know Guy,after wittnessing a memeber of the tcia top several trees i'm not sure about thier org as it seems they'll give a membership to anyone.

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old schooler

Eric Frei

Why not? Most orgs members never attend a meeting and just receive a newsletter. A forum as active as this with this amount of information would a be dream for them.

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treeseer

And that's why I referred the 200+ members of the ASCA listserv here for the Trichoderma research because their forum has a 500 kb limit and no one could figure out how to screen info to be posted on their website. Hence, under "News" there is only a blurb from 2002...

ng you are right; tcia and isa do not require anything of members but due$. not sure they should. Orgs typically ride on the backs of a few concerned and active members, who pull a lot of dead weight.

Blame the bureaucracies all you want, but it's the silent majority of inactive members who retard progress.

Eric Frei

For the record, to date the QAA still hasn't responded and Lances Tree Care continue to advertise the QAA's logo.

And also for the record, they could easily post something here, even register as Mr Ostrich and attempt to lay some logical explanation down as to their sales of credibility.

But they do not.

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newguy18

They're probabley to embarressed,they ae hacks,supported by an organization that has it concern wrapped around thier wallet instead of actually promoteing proper treecare.Me personally,i'd rather take my valuable time,even if it meant me spending my own hard earned money to help take care of trees properly than hack them to bits like every other tree service in my area,i get cut down alot because of it and have lost jobs because of things they say about me,but i've also taking 12 regular clients from one of them,and its suprising that when a customer looks up what i'm talking about,they find i'm usually right and know what i'm talking about.On that note i've refered most of my competition here,told them my user name and everythign,i don't see one of them here now do i?

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I ship USA saws out of the USA

old schooler

Eric Frei

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newguy18

Yeah,so true Eric.

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I ship USA saws out of the USA

old schooler

olyman

eric--tho havent commented in a while--praise to ya man--that was great--damn people with tooooo much authority!!!!!! goes straight to their hollow head---good to have people in the ranks not afraid to shake a few trees-----i do around here--and authoritys dont like it------tough!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eric Frei

Good on you, if we turn a blind eye then poor practices become standard practices. And it's easier to have authorities implement internal procedures and standards than have politicians pass laws.

Imagine if all schools, public places and parks, and commercial properties insisted upon qualified people only, that would cut the useless hacks out quick smart.

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Eric Frei

In October the school wil be celebrating it's 25th anniversary.

A newsletter will be going out and a request was made for sponsors. For $10 you get to sponsor a page and for a further $10 a business card sized ad somewhere like the back page etc.

So I fronted to the office this morning, handed over $20 and a business card (copy attached).

Not 5 minutes later received a call from the principal.

In a nutshell he wouldn't place the "ad" unless the URL to my palmtreeservices website was removed (underlined in red).


Reason being, because that website has a link to Treeworld which has this thread and it would be "unsavoury" to have any negative connotations about the school possibly accessed.

You know, that palmtreeservices website is #1 in Google with some really great information, it's my draw card. And Treeworld, well lets see, and as I informed him, some 35,000+ posts, tons of really great information denied because of this thread. And this thread has what, 41 posts or something.

I told him I now have to escalate the matter to Dept of Education as there's no clear advertising guidelines and censorship is being exhibited by the school, or him or whatever ... either way we need clarification ... especially as these are the website powerhouses of the tree business and are being screened out like some North Korean nuclear program.

Seems people aren't quite ready in Queensland to realise people have freedom of speech, no wonder the current govt is having a lot of egg spread on it's face with FOI document seizures making press lately, seems a cover up mentality is the preferred mentality. A lot of good came out of this thread and will continue to do so.

Sadly there's those who'll never get the point or think it's some personal battle, the point is censorship is not the way ahead, locking down is not the way ahead, not facing facts/dealing with them is not the way ahead, remaining mute and not contributing is not the way ahead. I think most sensible people get the picture, lets hope Queensland Education does.

By the way, I wonder if they'll sensor the newspapers or persue them on some flippant grounds for this recently.

Advice labelled ‘weird’ - Local News - News | Quest News

And whilst this is not the same school (but still a QLD EDU School nearby) it shows the mindset, and in the end they changed their "rules" to accomodate the best shoes made.

School threat to expel girl who wore Doc Martens | The Courier-Mail

From Queensland ... The Smart State!

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Eric Frei

It just gets better at this place.

Listen to this. Today I went to pick my kid up. Was sitting on the bench in the gazebo (not shown in old Google pic) facing the class room she's in waiting for the bell.

The groundsman walks up behind me and asks if I'm Eric Frei.

I say yes and he lets it fly. Reckons he's knows where I live and is gonne "pay a visit". Reckons I'm some keyboard hero etc and that I write lies.

Straight away I said, "this conversation needs to be moved up to the principal's office right now".

He refused.

Then I confirmed with him it was him making the mulch volcano's (no lie there). I then asked if his wife works in the office to which he said no. Listen, hmmm, I said did she work there at all etc ... yes, she has now moved (nice play on words eh ). So where is the lie I asked?

Now we're real close maybe inches are separating us. I inform him I can write what I do and I front situations before I type, and that he can use the forum too! But no lies have been printed. He told me to get off school property and I informed him that it's not his call and the whole discussion is out of line and needs to be reported and that I will be typing this story on the forum.

He continued.

He doesn't care, he knows where I live and he's gonna sort it.


Right at the start of this a cleaner was where marked, dont know where she went. But as soon as this guy left within like 30 seconds the principal, a lady with the principal and the cleaner go into to garden shed where the groundsman went. They were in there maybe 5 minutes but the bell went and I was tending to my kid.

Then, now check this out. The principal just starts walking back toward his office like nothing happened so I called him and we had a chat.

I mentioned the discussion and threats etc and also told him the story will be on the net and reported to EDU QLD.

Imagine the consequences if I had done to a staff member what this guy did to me? Threatening and intimidating people, way out of line.

Now take a long hard look at this. A parent trying to help the school at no cost gets blown off, then that parent takes his story further and writes it with evidence.

You know why I take pictures? Because if I just told it then they'd deny it.

You know why I publish it? Because otherwise they wouldn't give a flying rats ass and nothing would change.

So, I got years of going to this school, years. In every instance I have been civil, followed protocol, talked to the relevant people but sadly ... it wasn't until I printed this here on the forum that it mattered ...

now you're the censored tree company by the educators of the "SMART STATE"

Who knows, maybe EDU QLD will try to censor all of Google, just as well they dont control it!

You decide.

And wouldn't it be funny if Lances Tree got printed ads in their newsletter, that would be the cream on the cake.

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JayD

This is really unacceptable behaviour from school employee's. Mr principle what are you going to do about this violent affront on Mr Frei on your school grounds?

I for one feel utterly disgusted this happened to a man only trying to make sure work carried out on your school is done properly and to Australian Standards.

Imagine someone carrying out plumber's work unlicenced or without a clue on something that could take someones life! The authorities would jump out of choppers to stop them!

Well it's no different with Arborist's. We are highly trained to climb trees and assess their safety or lack of. Do you realise that its takes five years, providing you pass all modules, to become an Arborist with Mr Frei's credentials? The gentleman has not one diploma but two.I think he has earned the right to be listened to with respect and Not Threated By One Of Your Staff

To a point it's reasonably easy to spot an untrained legend, they generally have no PPE, (personal protection equipment) they also use saws in a tree which would make an Arborist cringe.

Mr Frei does not stand alone here, he represents Arborists around the world. Now that he's been threatened we are all concerned.

I am following this thread waiting for a response from you.This is simply not good enough.

JayD
A-One Tree Services

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Level 4 Arborist/ FPIFGM 3204A: Fall trees manually (intermediate)

Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others

TrevMcRev

What negligent fools run this school.

Fancy having the opportunity for FREE advice that would normally cost hundreds of dollars from a well credentialed professional in their field, only to blow it off.

Some groundskeepers are wise enough to know the limits of what they know, and take the advice of professionals when a subject is outside their limits.

Others think that the 50 year out of date information handed down to them is still valid today. Science has taught us plenty. There have been many advances in tree science since. Just 100 years ago medical "Science" had some pretty bizzare beliefs & treatments too.

What other substandard practices are supported at this school.

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OutofMytree

With three kids in school I pay close attention to this sort of thread. Good onya Ekka for saying out loud what others probably thought.

I read the entire coroners report for the incident in NT. The young boy was the same age as my youngest son. I challenge any parent to read that report and not feel sick to their stomachs over what was clearly an avoidable "accident".

It is sad that any school, in the wake of that incident, would hesitate to use the skills of a qualified arborist to ensure safety for all concerned. I wonder if the school principal can spell p-u-b-l-i-c-l-i-a-b-i-l-i-t-y.

Eric Frei

Well, staff interaction is a concern. Emailing the education dept is like writing to a vacuum, you get nothing, not even an automated reply.

I just tried but cant send, seems their whole site is down.
http://education.qld.gov.au/

Give it a try, maybe they'll blame that on me too!

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newguy18

good on you Eric for 3 things,
1.you started this thread to show that these people obviously don't care who does they're work and in return it makes the tree unsafe,which can lead to accident's,i'mmsuprised with a thread like this going that the parents of the boy who were killed aren't sueing.
2.Exposing one of the tree companieswho have been deemed by the stae of queensland as a good buisness.
3.Taking your precious time to volunteer to show that the tree[s]in question are hazerdous and needed the skills of an arborist to reduce that risk.

I challenge the princepal,or any of the school staff to come on here and tell they're side of the story,you can't hide forever.

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Eric Frei

Got this today.

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Galbee

Ooh these people are annoying send a reply with the posted photos and a link to this post then see the solicitors response.

I see no helmet chainsaw pants or a chipper


or here


yep admitedly This bloke is feeding the chipper without hearing protection, eye protection or a helmet.


Yep cutting without chainsaw pants or chaps and no helmet.

Eric Frei

It appears the solicitor PHILLIP COOKE is having difficulty reading the post concerned.

So I'll help you out Phillip.

It goes like this, the words that go with a picture are above the picture not below, so in your email you contested this picture but read the words above the picture. Now if I had not taken any photos then you'd argue I was making this all up however knowing that a picture is worth a thousand words I took these to back up what I witnessed.

Now you may contest that you cannot see him feeding the chipper but I was there and saw him feeding it. As far as other pictures go Phillip how can they be misleading? Impossible.


Phillip, you really think that all these pictures need to go? You honestly believe they're all some photo shop made up rubbish?

Seems to me you need to re-evaluate your client and the law, I am yet to see or hear of such suppression of fact, lordy, Russia has arrived.

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Eric Frei

Copy of email sent to Phillip the solicitor just now.

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pomie

maybe you should phone up work place health safety ,to chat to the lawyer,i wonder where the raf or jms forms are must be in the tool box with the cHAPS and there hearing

pomie

about 2 months ago LT care phoned to ask if i was free to do some climbing ,i said yes ,and mentioned that i dont prune with spikes or lop that must be why he never called be back adleast i can add him to my black list and i never lost a days moneyi work for a guy he turns 56 next year ,andhe has lerned to prune spikless and not top so even lance can do it if he wants to when you get your training cert put a training cource together for him he needs it ha ha

Eric Frei

For all who want a paper record.

Up to post 53 is contained in the PDF link below. Regardless of what the outcome is you can download this PDF and keep it as a record "verbatim" of this thread.

Show it to your kids, show them what the Smart State with it's threats and thugs is all about, show them what happens to the good guys of the business and then they'll no longer ask why things are as shitty as they are on Queensland arb scene, they'll understand.

15.5mb PDF document on the link below.

www.treeworld.info/manualuploads/chatswood.pdf

PS: I've also sent a special invite along to Googlebot.

Posts 54 to 74 are in the PDF here.

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JayD

If this bloke holds a level 2 certificate he needs to go back and do a refresher course ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS THE TEACHERS OF LEVEL 2 TEACHIs correct saftey techniques whilst in the tree and on the ground...NO PPE???No secondary attachement point while cutting.
The very look of this bloke in the tree screams unqualified.

Then look at his groundie cutting with that saw to close to the kickback quadrant starring down at the bar if this thing kicks back it's going to split him in half...Does he hold a level 2 aswell? as this is the minimum qualification a member of your crew should hold!

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Level 4 Arborist/ FPIFGM 3204A: Fall trees manually (intermediate)

Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others

Eric Frei

JayD

The owner of the business is Lance and it's that person who apparently holds a cert2 not any of the guys in the pics. Lance was not on that job site, he's not in any of the pictures. He's the business owner.

The climber on that job site has ZERO qualifications, I know that because he told me.

For the record the email from the solicitor was sent/received Friday, October 10, 2008 2:14 PM

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pomie

QAA should pay 4 lawyer 4 you put there money where there mouths are since there are all these great arborists that run it they can c what has gone on. maybe get rid of the crap and they might get more arborists join up as members when they c the QAAdoing the right thing by there arborist members

JayD

What a joke..If they hold no qualifications at all how in the hell can one of them be the nominated qualified supervisor???It seems to me it just another bunch of hacks going about their work in a hit and miss manor.

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Level 4 Arborist/ FPIFGM 3204A: Fall trees manually (intermediate)

Arboriculture, A life long study for some, a passing phase for others

treevet

Besides the kickback quadrant cut being made on the ground mentioned by JayD, I would not allow that upside down cut with no back cut or notch to be made on my jobs and I am an arborist of 40 years experience and ISA Certified and this is a very unsafe procedure as well for the climber in addition to giving no control on the fall of the piece.